California Bans sale of small engines.

[Joe Romas]

For all you left coast members better get your generators prior to January 2024

https://www.sej.org/headlines/new-ca...s-leaf-blowers

The above does not mention generators but this article does.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...alifornia-law/

[Alex Adams]

The linked article does not talk about generators. If you read the law, it states that:
43018.11. (a) (1) By July 1, 2022, the state board shall, consistent with federal law, adopt cost-effective and technologically feasible regulations to prohibit engine exhaust and evaporative emissions from new small off-road engines, as defined by the state board. Those regulations shall apply to engines produced on or after January 1, 2024, or as soon as the state board determines is feasible, whichever is later.
(2) In determining technological feasibility pursuant to paragraph (1), the state board shall consider all of the following:
(A) Emissions from small off-road engines in the state.
(b) Expected timelines for zero-emission small off-road equipment development.
(C) Increased demand for electricity from added charging requirements for more zero-emission small off-road equipment.
(D) Use cases of both commercial and residential lawn and garden users.
(E) Expected availability of zero-emission generators and emergency response equipment.

If you look at paragraph 2 subsection E, the availability of zero-emission generators must be considered before banning the current technology.

[jwcolby123]

Since the entire rest of the US is downwind of CA it could be a good thing that they care about this stuff.

[slowpat]

Not much to worry about for me. I use solar panels instead of a generator and do my "off road" on an ebike.

[Raspy]

I haven't carried a generator with me for a couple of years now, and I don't want one. In that time I've becomes less and less tolerant of generators running in camping areas. People with them have the right to run them during certain hours, but too many are just run all day. Except for running AC, solar is a great way to go. Combined with an inverter it supplies all the conveniences of home. For many, camping these days seems to be simulating being at home. For me, being quiet is an important part of the experience.

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by Raspy

For many, camping these days seems to be simulating being at home. For me, being quiet is an important part of the experience.

This is where new people get side tracked. They want all the home conveniences including wifi and cell service too.

I’m on a national parks forum and the number of people asking about wifi service in Yellowstone is mind blowing…


I need to sell my generator as I now only use the portable solar panel.

[Raz]

This "switch to electric" push is quite interesting from an EE point of view. My understanding is that most of our electricity is still generated by fossil fuels. That will have to change. I read that out west the rivers are getting too low to run the turbines and the electric grid is starting wild fires. I suppose we can cover the desert with solar panels, chinese solar panels? Or they could bring back nuclear. Now there's a thought. Then there's all those spent batteries to dispose of. In the 1980's we typically had 200 incoming freshman electrical students. My last year teaching we had 10. Lots of problems to be solved. I shall follow it all with great interest.

[slowpat]

Originally Posted by Raz

This "switch to electric" push is quite interesting from an EE point of view. My understanding is that most of our electricity is still generated by fossil fuels. That will have to change. I read that out west the rivers are getting too low to run the turbines and the electric grid is starting wild fires. I suppose we can cover the desert with solar panels, chinese solar panels? Or they could bring back nuclear. Now there's a thought. Then there's all those spent batteries to dispose of. In the 1980's we typically had 200 incoming freshman electrical students. My last year teaching we had 10. Lots of problems to be solved. I shall follow it all with great interest.

Some rivers are running low. I live in the PNW where our power has been hydro (mostly) since Grand Coulee was put in. We're OK.

What could be done is to think smaller. Solar panels on houses and in yards would be a start. Right now that isn't very affordable and winter can be a problem. Our state has wind turbines going which I THINK were subsidized quite a bit. The nuke plant was shut down--again not 100% sure and is in a constant clean up mode.

The main problem with hydro here, is salmon survival. That is major. Dams on the Columbia were built with fish ladders, but not all. Grand Coulee dam is a huge blockage to fish passage, but again, I think that Chief Joseph Dam was built without fish ladders.

Fish are trucked around some dams. Last year a fish cannon was brought in and it "shot" salmon over Chief Joseph dam and gave a bit of hope to restoring salmon runs in the upper Columbia. Haven't heard anymore reports on it being used again.

There is talk of dam removal on the Snake River to facilitate salmon recovery.

Salmon are the buffalo of the PNW.

In the meantime, I ride my Ebike as much as I can.

[floyd]

I ride a real bicycle, and read by daylight (solar)

Of course I limit the miles I ride, since the additional effort causes excess carbon emissions when I breathe heavily.
I fart into a jar and use a hand tire pump to compress it into underground carbon storage, to later be further compressed into blood free diamonds.
I hope to produce enough diamonds from this process to fund a guaranteed minimum wage and enough government programs, so nobody will ever need to work again.

I married a symbiotic tree to process my waste and use my breath to make more oxygen.
To avoid the exploitation of innocent plants, I eat only Stilton cheese gathered from the moon by a flock of cheese eating flying pigs.
I generate all the electricity I need with power from emissions free "wish horses" (AKA unicorns) running on tread mills.
More later, right now I have to go cut the cheese!

Good luck everyone.


Disclaimer...

None of the above attempt at levity was intended to be taken seriously or to offend anyone, at least not until it all becomes law in California!

[Ttocs M]

Floyd, you made my rainy day into a funny day...thanks for the laughs.

[ATHiker]

Not sure if it is true, but I read that using a leaf blower for an hour equals the emissions of driving a Camry on a 1,000 mile trip. Seems some effort on this issue would be warranted.
If you complain about a generator, just let the park maintenance come around with a leaf blower while you are sitting outside.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by ATHiker

Not sure if it is true, but I read that using a leaf blower for an hour equals the emissions of driving a Camry on a 1,000 mile trip. Seems some effort on this issue would be warranted.
If you complain about a generator, just let the park maintenance come around with a leaf blower while you are sitting outside.

Its OK...

Being sure something is true before repeating it is passe',not to worry.

I heard somewhere that 78.7% of all statements on the internet are untrue.
I can't be sure that that is true either, but I did see that Abraham Lincoln is quoted as saying that you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
Then again we all know "Honest Abe's" affiliation.
Here is an article which supports your post... Whether it speaks to the "cleanliness" of the Raptor or the "dirtiness" of the leaf blower is sorta subjective...


https://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...delinecom.html


In the meantime I'm just glad that some folks will quit blowing their lawn waste into the street causing an unsightly safety hazard to me and my bicycle when I ride.

We use one of these instead...



Statistics can be disconcerting however...


Did you know that more dog poop is disposed of in our landfills each year than all the trash produced by the entire state of Massachusetts?

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by ATHiker

Not sure if it is true, but I read that using a leaf blower for an hour equals the emissions of driving a Camry on a 1,000 mile trip. Seems some effort on this issue would be warranted.
If you complain about a generator, just let the park maintenance come around with a leaf blower while you are sitting outside.

In the Bay Area, when gas powered leaf blowers were banned, the gardeners bought gas powered generators and ran 120 volt electric blowers from extension cords instead. A work around that seemed ridiculous to me, but they did it. I'm sure it was no quieter, and probably only slightly less polluting.

[slowpat]

There is an advantage to battery powered equipment.

A friend has a battery powered chainsaw. The battery lasts about the same time as one tank of fuel on a gas powered saw. When the battery runs out, it is a good time to quit for an old lady. The battery powered saw has no yanking of a starter cord either. The bad thing is that it only cuts small stuff.

My leaf blower works the same way. When the battery runs down, I am usually bored and sick of working with leaves. I am bad in that I mostly run the gas powered lawn mower over the leaves and "mulch" the yard. The leaf blower is used in the shrubbery.

[jwcolby123]

Originally Posted by thrifty bill

This is where new people get side tracked. They want all the home conveniences including wifi and cell service too.

I’m on a national parks forum and the number of people asking about wifi service in Yellowstone is mind blowing…


I need to sell my generator as I now only use the portable solar panel.

And thinking of buying a small inverter generator

[ATHiker]

I found the link: https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/sm_en_fs.pdf

[floyd]

Originally Posted by ATHiker

I found the link: https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/sm_en_fs.pdf

Interesting...
It leaves at least one important question however.
The fact sheet does not define or specify the generality
"smog forming emissions"


I hope not, but I suspect that it is largely something like Carbon Dioxide and Nitrous Oxide.
This would explain the misleading comparison between cars and lawn mowers.
While there is some reason to urge this initiative, the approach may foster further distrust in our regulators.


A long dead phrase just might apply here...
"Honesty is the best policy" if you are seeking trust and voluntary compliance, which works better than fear mongering and enforced compliance which is always more expensive and less effective.


I hate leaf blowers of all types.
I already have gone electric for my weed whackers and plan electric for my next lawn mower, this is because they are now better, cheaper, and more convenient for my needs.
That is the way to real progress without nanny state tyranny.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by floyd

That is the way to real progress without nanny state tyranny.

You think there would be progress without a reason to make progress?
As long as corporations are making money, they have little incentive to make changes, especially if it might hit them in the pocket book.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

You think there would be progress without a reason to make progress?
As long as corporations are making money, they have little incentive to make changes, especially if it might hit them in the pocket book.

Of course no real progress can be made without reason, I just believe that coercion and domination are not the best motivators.
Over time, reason does work better.
It really comes down to whether you think men can be reasoned with or whether they must always be forced into doing what's in their best interest.
Those evil corporations have now produced a better lawnmower which runs on battery power. They did so in response to a market which demanded it. Otherwise our benevolent masters would have nothing to force us to buy.


The hardware stores across the country are filling up with battery lawn tools which are rapidly replacing the gasoline powered tools on the shelves This is happening without mandates because of consumer demand.
I'm sure you would buy these better products of your own accord,right?
Its just your stupid neighbors which must be forced.
To me that smacks of elitism.


We switched from a manual push mower to a gasoline push mower, because it was a better choice, then we saw a self propelled mower and switched again, then along came a corded electric(no thanks)
Now along comes a competitively priced Battery mower which is virtually maintenance free, quietly mows the whole lawn on a single charge, starts every time, without the need for fetching, storing or handling volatile fuels.
All that, and you(our at least your peers) need the governor to force you to buy it?

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by floyd

They did so in response to a market which demanded it.

And, why do you think the market demanded it?