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Old 09-20-2022, 05:50 AM   #1
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Car & Driver EV test

I was reading in Car & Driver to determine. EV car of the year. There are three pickup trucks on the list. What caught my attention was the towing test that was in the magazine. They towed an empty 6,100-pound camper.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ian-lightning/

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a4...ar-contenders/
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Old 09-20-2022, 06:37 AM   #2
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I have a difficult time getting on board with an EV truck for towing the way we usually travel. So far they lack range for serious treking and so far the charging stations are lacking opinion and still take a while.
If you travel to the extent of range you have to have a charging station nearby and usually I am busy setting up in the evening.
We often will travel most of the day when headed to a far off spot and I wonder if that is really possible today.
Also even though there are 50 amp plugs available at most RV sites I doubt that they would be happy with the added cost of recharging an EV truck in addition to the power to power the camper.
For shorter trips they may be the cat's meow, however.
Others will disagree but I don't think that they are ready for prime time now. at least for the way we tend to travel.
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Old 09-20-2022, 06:39 AM   #3
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So a 29’ sticky is what a typical family of four takes on the “quintessential American road trip”…

I enjoy being atypical.

What many fail to realize is how heavy these trucks are. If this is the future of electrification, we’re in for a bumpy ride…
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Old 09-20-2022, 09:00 AM   #4
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EV tow vehicles are fine for lower profile lighter trailers like most of us have on this forum. We have towed across Canada and are currently touring Vancouver island with an EV RV combo. Over 14000 kilometres and still a thousand to go. We have had no issues. It’s a great combo. But to each his own of course. Everybody travels different.

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Old 09-20-2022, 11:23 AM   #5
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If you only camp occasionally and semi-locally, EV could be a viable option. If you want distance, you'd just have to plan ahead for all your stops to charge. A small trailer like many of ours will help either way.

TFL did a video comparing a Rivian against a Tundra with an offroad teardrop at just under 2000lbs, shorter and a little lighter than a lot of fiberglass campers, but a bit closer to a lot of users than the 6k stick. They traveled the same 153 mile loop in Colorado.

91% of the Rivian charge was used, calculated out 168 mile range from 100% to 0, or 58 miles more range than the 6k stick built. Tundra used ~32% of it's 30 gallon fuel tank, calculating out to 473 miles of possible range.

I think we could get by with an EV for my wife's next vehicle should she want it. Use my gas truck for long trips, use her ev for more local trips. We have 2 children as well, so between the 3 of them I'm sure we stop enough that if I could just add a charging station into the stop, we could probably top off enough as we travel to get pretty far.

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Old 09-20-2022, 11:35 AM   #6
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I agree I do not know what the future holds, but right now, I do not see people towing a family-size camper and unhooking & charging every two hours.
With some states stopping selling gas-powered cars in 2035, I can see states forcing gas stations out of business, forcing the people to buy EV cars. Right now, Virginia & 13 other states are going to follow California in 2035.
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Old 09-20-2022, 01:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jgilliam1955 View Post
I agree I do not know what the future holds, but right now, I do not see people towing a family-size camper and unhooking & charging every two hours.
With some states stopping selling gas-powered cars in 2035, I can see states forcing gas stations out of business, forcing the people to buy EV cars. Right now, Virginia & 13 other states are going to follow California in 2035.
Meh. I would guess within 5 years tow vehicles will have twice the towing distance. Maybe sooner.
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Old 09-20-2022, 01:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jgilliam1955 View Post
With some states stopping selling gas-powered cars in 2035, I can see states forcing gas stations out of business, forcing the people to buy EV cars.
Do you need to worry about 2035? I certainly don't. Nobody wants octogenarians out on the roads towing trailers.
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Old 09-21-2022, 05:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Travellers View Post
Meh. I would guess within 5 years tow vehicles will have twice the towing distance. Maybe sooner.
That would either mean (1) different battery technology, (2) much larger battery arrays, or (3) electrified trailers with their own batteries and motors, as has been demonstrated by Airstream. Am I missing another path forward?

I note that #2 and #3 place recreational EV towing in direct competition for lithium, copper, and other resources required to support mass EV adoption. Without that, climate goals- the stated reason for this massive shift- will never be met.

Just listened to an NPR piece last week reporting that environmental opposition to lithium mining is growing in Chile, holder of the world's largest known reserves. I think this is it...
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/17/11236...lithium-mining

One thing that would go a long way is recreational trailers becoming significantly smaller, lighter, and more aerodynamic. That I could actually see happening. Classifieds are filled with pages of giant RVs, but small ones are few and far between, and when they do pop up, they sell fast. The demand is there and growing. Eventually Elkhart will be forced to respond in a significant way.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:20 PM   #10
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Will there be a used EV car market? A gas-used car will last for years. But an EV battery might be a risk. The cost of repairs & replacement for an EV might kill the used EV market.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:30 PM   #11
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A friend of mine bought a used Prius with one bad cell for REALLY cheap, watched some youtube videos, bought a new cell for something like US$750, replaced it and the car has been perfect for the last 5 years.

So, YES! Certainly there will be a market for used EVs.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:44 PM   #12
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A friend of mine bought a used Prius with one bad cell for REALLY cheap, watched some youtube videos, bought a new cell for something like US$750, replaced it and the car has been perfect for the last 5 years.

So, YES! Certainly there will be a market for used EVs.
I use to own a Prius. The batteries are different & it has a gas engine.
In the news a teenager bought a used EV and shortly after the battery went out. The replacement cost was $14K. But they no longer made those battiers.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/07...tself-1262030/
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:55 PM   #13
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Battery modules and compete batteries are fairly easy to get for older EV’s. Usually recons or from wrecked EV’s. Fairly cheap. Nobody puts a new battery in a 10 year old car. But when somebody does it always makes the news.
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Old 09-27-2022, 06:52 AM   #14
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The cost of a battery replacement is shocking because it’s a one-time expense that most people can ill afford. I figure at some point they’ll find ways to spread it out to make it more palatable, perhaps through leasing or subscriptions.

Just to put it in perspective, I estimated how much we have spent on gas and routine maintenance to keep our 2011 Pilot tow vehicle on the road for 11 years and 225K miles. Rough estimate, about $35K. And that’s with average gas prices we’re unlikely to see again.
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Old 09-27-2022, 06:56 AM   #15
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Car & Driver EV test

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgilliam1955 View Post
I agree I do not know what the future holds, but right now, I do not see people towing a family-size camper and unhooking & charging every two hours.
With some states stopping selling gas-powered cars in 2035, I can see states forcing gas stations out of business, forcing the people to buy EV cars. Right now, Virginia & 13 other states are going to follow California in 2035.


The question in my mind is if indeed the push to eliminate fossil fuels comes to fruition, how will they pave the roads? Currently most if not all of the asphalt comes from residuals left over from distilling about 18.5 million barrels of crude oil per day to make diesel and gasoline. I think most of us who travel would agree that many roads need to be replaced more often. Even a 25% reduction would have a significant negative impact on the road system and likely our camping experience. Switching to concrete brings with it the very significant CO2 output from the production of cement and significant cost increases. Then the elephant of use taxes comes up as the fuel taxes must be transitioned to wheel taxes. Me thinks that we should think more than 1 or 2 steps down the road by those who actually understand mathematics, science, engineering and construction . My 2 cents.
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Old 09-27-2022, 07:41 AM   #16
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those who actually understand mathematics, science....
They seem to be in agreement that we need to move beyond fossil fuels. Anyway, likely to be changes and inconveniences. The future looks OK for small trailers, maybe not so good for 5th wheels.
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