Caution - Shady underworld Boler flippers at play - Fiberglass RV
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Old 05-07-2007, 11:01 PM   #1
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I thought I would post this just to let people know that our 'community' has been penetrated by those only wishing to make a profit from the purchase/sale of our trailers.

As you may know, I sold my bright orange 1972 Boler recently to a 'Kersti' in Victoria. I have no idea whether Kersti exists or not .... but when asked what Kersti wanted to do with the trailer, she replied that she wanted to have fun in the trailer with her family and enjoy the work that we'd done to the trailer. That she wanted a reno project to enjoy because she couldn't do the work herself.

Thanks to Yuri (who just let me know about this tonight),
http://www.usedvictoria.com/classified-ad/...ers-motor-homes

We all known that these little trailers are starting to fetch premium prices, and that's fine. .... But it's possible that people are 'posing' as Boler enthusiasts to try and capitalize on this by soliciting our trailers only to mark them up significantly and flip them on the Island. (Vancouver Island)

Now, it doesn't matter to me too much - 'Kersti' deposited the money into my account and, being a little suspicious why someone wouldn't ask a single question about the state of the trailer, I immediately withdrew it (so there could be no attempts to take it back). 'She' paid a fair price for the trailer and if she's able to flip it in Victoria, so be it.

But I'd like those looking to buy or sell a trailer to be wary - all may not be as it seems.

The trailer was worth $5900 - I didn't price it $2000 low just for fun! Having done the work - and knowing what else was still left to do - I think that the next unsuspecting purchaser will be vastly overpaying for the trailer.

So if you're looking for a trailer, please be careful and be sure to get advice from long-standing and reputable members of this forum before buying something through the classifieds.

Darren
Calgary, AB
No longer a 1972 Boler 1300
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Old 05-08-2007, 12:36 AM   #2
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Wow Darren, quite a story.

Yours was one of the first reno's I saw when I found the forum and it makes me sad to hear this. I know you really put a lot in it and it's got to be a bit hard to take, even though you got a fair price.

I saw a couple in Prescott on our forum that got a 16 Casita not long ago from a seller in AZ that I thought was a low price. Pretty sure I saw it two weeks later in the main newspaper with the price jacked up and a Prescott number on the ad, so I guess it was a similar deal.

I'm sure as nice as your Boler is it will eventually end up in someones hands that will really enjoy it.
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:59 AM   #3
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There's also a person (or group of people) in North Carolina who buy and resell trailers. They usually sell on eBay, but advertized an Amerigo in this group a couple months back. When a member pointed out ads for the same trailer in other places (for less, they jacked up the price for us) the seller freaked.

Not ALL resellers are all that bad. I can see the value in someone trying to make some cash buying beaters, fixing them up and reselling. I can also see the value in someone digging up (sometimes literally) old, nearly abandoned trailers and bringing them to the greater community. I don't see the value in someone snatching up bargains already out there, then pumping the price up and reselling in more-or-less the same venue. THAT's just parasitic.

While there's not much that I think can be done about the parasites (other than exposing them whenever possible), I hope you don't let that sour you. YOU did the right thing. YOU were trying to help a fellow enthusiast and YOU were being a decent person. Wish there were more like ya.

Course - sometimes people just change their minds. I did that once with a pop-up.

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Old 05-08-2007, 05:21 AM   #4
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I've bought and sold a half-dozen trailers in the past three years. I only bought one with the intention of "flipping" it, and that was an Airstream. I always paid the asking price, and although had every intention of keeping each of them, resold them at a modest profit. I continue to stay in touch with many of the buyers who have become friends.

Reselling trailers isn't an inherently bad thing, but I agree that some folks may be less than scrupulous when they do it. The value, however, is always in the eye of the beholder.

I bought a 1961 Airstream Bambi 16' trailer in 1998 for $1100. I put several hundred more into repairs and used it for three years. I had a ball with that trailer, but when it came time to sell it, I sold it for $6,600 to a very nice woman from Washington state in 2001. That trailer today, in the condition in which I sold it, would bring $12,000 without question. Demand has driven prices up. I see the same thing occurring with $3.00+ gas hitting again with fiberglass trailers. Who got taken on my Bambi? None of us. The original owner got what she wanted. I got what I wanted, and the woman I sold it to got the trailer she wanted. We were all happy, and I suspect that if she someday chooses to sell the Bambi at $12k or $15k as the market will bear, someone else will be happy with it as well.

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Old 05-08-2007, 05:49 AM   #5
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Hi: Some people will do anything to "MAKE A BUCK"
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:29 AM   #6
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We flipped our Burro, but that is because we had "two-foot itis." We will not be flipping our UHaul.

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Old 05-08-2007, 08:33 AM   #7
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1. They had some great shots of the trailer. Clearly you did some really nice work in renovating it.

2. But what is a decore? They said, "You must see the decore in this one." Hmmm.

Maybe its the lsd version of decor?

Art


P.S. What does "flipping" mean? I got rid of the "flipping" thing?
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Old 05-08-2007, 09:03 AM   #8
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Flipping means to buy a item and then resell at a higher price.They have no intentions of keeping it.They just want to make money.
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Old 05-08-2007, 10:53 AM   #9
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Usually, though, from what I have seen, flipping, as in flipping houses, means that you put in dollars and labor to improve it, before you resell it. We have flipped 5 houses, none intentionally. We had planned to live there, but someone's job promotion always took us elsewhere. For our Burro, we bought one that had been stored and needed refurbishing. We did that and then sold it for more than we paid for it. Not sure if we really did make any money on it though by the time we tally the investment in fixing it up.

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Old 05-08-2007, 10:57 AM   #10
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What's wrong here is that the buyer intentionally misled the seller. Lots of people buy things with the intent to turn a profit, with or without fixing them up. But legal or not, this new seller is dishonest.

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Old 05-08-2007, 11:07 AM   #11
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I'm missing something here.
Isn't buying low and selling high what free enterprise is all about. Antique dealers haunt thirft shops. All retail merchandise was purchased at a lower price by the retailer.
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:15 AM   #12
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it's listed on craigslist too. i know it sucks to get somewhat duped, but honestly they are in quite a challenge if they think they can get $7900 for it. they bought high and are trying to sell higher - not too bright. thanks to them, there is now a glut of overpriced bolers just sitting around unloved in BC
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Old 05-08-2007, 11:26 AM   #13
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it's listed on craigslist too. i know it sucks to get somewhat duped, but honestly they are in quite a challenge if they think they can get $7900 for it. they bought high and are trying to sell higher - not too bright. thanks to them, there is now a glut of overpriced bolers just sitting around unloved in BC
They have quite a few bolers/trilliums on their site and they all are asking >$5900.. So either they're dreaming or they know their target audience. Given that they're a large RV dealer ("southwestrv.ca"), I'm betting on the latter.

There's an audience of people who don't feel confident buying used from a private individual and will happily walk into an RV dealership, plunking down more than they should just to get (artificial?) piece of mind...

Some friends down the street were selling their well cared for and not very old tent trailer. Some other friends down the street were looking at it because they were in the market for a tent trailer. However, they didn't know how anything worked or what to look for so they went to an RV dealer and bought largely the same trailer from a dealer for almost twice what the one down the street was asking. They said they liked the idea of being able to go back to the dealer when there were problems. Does it add up? Not really; but it shows there's a target audience for RV dealers.

Lying to the seller is a little creepy though ...
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Old 05-08-2007, 12:32 PM   #14
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I'm missing something here.
Isn't buying low and selling high what free enterprise is all about. Antique dealers haunt thirft shops. All retail merchandise was purchased at a lower price by the retailer.
You're darn right Byron, I'm a business owner (in the distrubtion business) so I totally understand what buying and selling is all about. I'm absolutely against anyone trying to quash free enterprise.

It's the lack of integrity that concerns me. Someone posing as a buyer that wants to purchase a cleaned-up trailer because they don't have the skills to renovate themselves - with the apparent intention of mis-leading the seller - is inherently wrong, do you agree?

Furthermore, my intentions by posting here are NOT necessarily to prevent this kind of behavior (mostly because it's not my place to do so ) - my intentions are merely to provide the community with the information and in-sight that I NOW have regarding this kind of activity so buyers can become more aware and make their choices to deal with such people more informed ones - whether that be the choice to buy or sell.
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Old 05-08-2007, 12:36 PM   #15
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FOOTNOTE :

Incidentally, in case you don't follow the threads at Boler ama (Delphi) where several other Boler owners have had this same kind of experience, the guys that are doing this kind of thing are a 'professional' RV dealer :

http://www.southwestrv.ca/openauto/carview.php?view=145

U p to you if you're interested in dealing with them. Personally I'd be reluncant to, for fear that I'd be over-paying.

Darren.
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Old 05-08-2007, 02:59 PM   #16
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Basically, except for the misleading statement of intentions regarding the purchase and use (which really have no effect on the transaction like it would with something like a pet adoption), I personally see nothing wrong. "Flipping" is exactly what car/truck/boat/RV dealers everywhere do with trade-ins -- Buy low and sell at a premium price (albeit with perhaps a warranty, but we already know about used car dealers and trust in general).

Of course, if the seller is misrepresenting the item, then that's a cause for concern.

Prudent shoppers check the market and Blue Books (when available), but some folks are less than prudent...
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:28 PM   #17
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Darren, thank you for bringing this up. I have struggled with my feelings on the same subject for three years now. I respect free enterprise...only if done with integrity. If a fast talking salesman approaches me, I RUN in the other direction.

I had been planning/dreaming about purchasing a trailer so that my young family could make camping memories for many years. In August of 2004, I woke up at 3am for no reason and could not get back to sleep. I decided to go online and check out this site for trailers for sale. Jim Gilb had posted a really nice 17" widebody Burro, loaded for $3500. Within a few hours of his posting, I had made contact and asked him if I could see more pictures. He emailed the pictures and I was making arrangements to send him money when he said that someone contacted his son and put a check in the mail sight unseen. The buyer (in Rocky Mount, NC) said that he and his wife were building a house along a river and needed Jim's trailer to live in while they built their house. At this point Jim was torn whether to sell the trailer to me or this person in NC who his son had talked to. I talked to Jim on the phone, and this NC guy talked to Jim on the phone and convinced Jim that he was the first buyer and the check was already in the mail. Jim Gilb went off to Africa to build villages, his Burro was on Ebay within weeks.

I don't mind someone purchasing something for a good price, putting sweat equity in it and reselling. What irks me is when they scan this site for the good deals between like minded folk, take advatage of a kind heart, and lie about intentions all for a buck. I take solace in knowing what goes around comes around and Rocky Mount, NC will surely get his.
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:07 PM   #18
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If 'flipping' bothers a seller, the seller should ask straight up the buyers intentions. That is the point where a dishonest person would make up a fabricated reason they are buying. But remember, you are placing conditions on the sale. That all has to be done up front.

Myself, when I sell anything, I feel I am giving up my legal ownership to the item. As soon as I am paid the buyer owns it and they are free to do as they please.
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:35 PM   #19
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At the risk of belaboring the point, I coarsely agree that if you put something up for sale for a price and someone buys it for that price, then yeah, it's theirs to do as they please. If you're worried about whether someone's intentions with the thing are not as pure as you would like, then ask for references and do a quick check on the buyer...

On the other hand, there's a reason this "RV dealer" lied about their intentions. They, in their own mind, believe they're doing something that the seller would not approve of. If they had no reason to believe that what they were doing was going to be perceived negatively, then they would have had no reason to fabricate such a tale..

No, in this case, they thought they were pulling a fast one so they made up a convincing lie... It's finding out about the lie after the fact that is probably at issue here...

I sold my 1300 to Yuri. Yuri's family was there and they all looked at the trailer. I'm glad that trailer that I put many many hours of work into, and spent many hours enjoying for a good number of years, went to a family that I'm sure is going to enjoy it. Sure, Yuri owns it now and can take it to the vehicle shredder and turn it into a box of fiberglass shavings. That's his prerogative, but I'd be sad... If Yuri had said "I'm going to buy this trailer so I can have the distinct pleasure of seeing it bounce around inside the big steel shredder as it is reduced to a big bag of 'itch'", I would definitely not have sold it to him.

Suddenly, I get the feeling I'm not able to convey my point no matter how long I keep typing .... So I'll just stop...
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Old 05-08-2007, 06:06 PM   #20
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Rocky Mount, NC?
I'll say it if nobody else will - that's the Amerigo seller, is it not?


I also agree in a general way that if a business transaction is made and both the seller and buyer are happy, then what happens to the item after the sale is really none of the seller's business, unless specific conditions were placed upon the sale ahead of time. What was done here, though, really burns my bottom because a trust between the seller and buyer has been broken. The sale was completed under false pretenses, and that's just wrong. People that speculate on a commodity like fiberglass eggs make it extremely difficult for people like me who are looking to enter the realm of owners but don't have a lot of money to spend. When a few items are sold for outrageous prices, it leads other sellers to shoot for the moon when they offer theirs for sale. I honestly can't blame a seller for trying to maximize their profit; that's what free enterprise is all about. That doesn't mean I have to like it, though.

Grrrrr....
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