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01-24-2014, 11:19 AM
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#61
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Thanks to all for your posting and as well for the additional private emails, both on and off the site emails. Your good wishes and engineering suggestions are all appreciated.
When the issue is resolved I will report on what we did to get us on our way. We don't plan to head north until early April and then will only be home for less than a month before heading north again. Ginny suggests we stay home and really work on the trailer but at our ages I want to go to Newfoundland this year...one never knows what next year will bring so assuming no further issues we'll be off.
Again thank you to each of you and thanks for the "eye in the sky" (not talking about the government here).
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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01-24-2014, 12:36 PM
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#62
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Senior Member
Name: Kenny
Trailer: 16' Standard
Ohio
Posts: 116
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New trailer
Norm,
My 16 was manufactured Oct. 3d, 2013. Since it warmed up here today (13 F) I was curious to see what mine looked like. The two pictures show each inboard side of the formed tubes and one of the outboard bends. With a controlled bend the effect could weaken or add strength. Much like the forms in your car's hood. Like you, if I were building a frame at home I would reinforce the bend, but that's because I don't have the brains to calculate the stress. You'll notice on the starboard side the doubler tube for the axil extends clean up to the bend. The added tubes on the bottom are supports for the sliding step.
Kenny
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01-24-2014, 04:02 PM
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#63
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Member
Name: Paul
Trailer: Scamp 13' 1977
California
Posts: 42
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TYJ!
Blessed IS a good description. Thank the Good Lord he watches us "fogies" too!
__________________
Paul Andreasen, TSgt, USAF (Ret) K1JAN
ROMAD, 601st DASS
(There's no such thing as an Ex-ROMAD)
Born in MAINE, living in Exile (Lompoc, CA)
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01-24-2014, 05:34 PM
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#64
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Kenny,
Thank you for the picture of the new Scamp.
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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01-24-2014, 05:35 PM
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#65
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Romad
TYJ!
Blessed IS a good description. Thank the Good Lord he watches us "fogies" too!
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Paul, Where did you live in Maine? I'm again looking at property there.
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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01-24-2014, 06:00 PM
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#66
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Moderator
Name: RogerDat
Trailer: 2010 Scamp 16
Michigan
Posts: 3,744
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Norm I see what you mean, Yikes!
That would be a spot with high load stress being just beyond the more rigid box part of the frame. With metal fatigue from making that bend making it weaker. It's too cold for me to fully check out mine but I will before I hit the road in the spring. Might be asking the welding guy to do a little reinforcement.
On closed tube frame condensation from temperature changes will cause water inside the frame even if the tube is fully sealed. Not unheard of to cut open sealed tube and have water dribble out.
As to the kids taking your keys, don't they have to find you first? Between solar and a little bit of water purification you two could be pretty difficult to locate. North America... lots of woods to hide in
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01-24-2014, 06:38 PM
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#67
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Roger, Our kids are both Escapees and are on the list at our park and one on the Olympic peninsula. Their goal is to retire and hit the road as well.
As to water purification one gave us a million gallon system for Christmas, possibly a start on a bugout bag. They are thrilled with our travels. Actually my reference to property in Maine was to seek a "location" in the woods off the grid.
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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01-24-2014, 08:15 PM
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#68
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Senior Member
Name: Mike
Trailer: 2012 Escape 19
Oklahoma
Posts: 6,018
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So glad you found it when you did. Whew!!!
Personally, this is another validation to my mind of my decision to buy new or nearly new stuff. Not saying that 20 year old trailers (or cars) can't be good, but it makes me uneasy to buy older units because 'stuff happens' eventually. I just feel good about the choices I've made, is all I'm saying.
I took a look at my Lil Hauley frame for comparison to the photos I've seen here. Looks like 4" C-channel, about 3/16" thickness. It seems to be well designed. Just aft of the bend, a cross piece is welded in all the way across the front. Then a reinforcing piece runs 90 degrees from that, to each side beyond the bend. A piece is added to the outside of the bend area, boxing it in. Add to all that another piece running from the center of the cross piece all the way to the ball area. It seems quite stout. Perhaps something in this will lend itself to ideas for strengthening another person's frame.
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01-24-2014, 09:20 PM
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#69
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Senior Member
Name: Paul
Trailer: '04 Scamp 19D, TV:Tacoma 3.5L 4door, SB
Colorado
Posts: 1,845
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Norm, I am looking at the pictures you posted at 10:37 and here are my two cents. It had to be a fatigue break, so it was progressing for some time. When it broke, the partial break on the other side happened quickly from overloading. Bending the tube at the bottom of the A forces the cross section to be reduced and, as noted in another post, it is also more prone to rust inside. Any welding may also promote rust. The inside rust is inevitable, unless the tube ends are open, or they are vented in some other ways. At this point it will be hard to see if there are other rusty weak spots.
The rubber springs used on Scamp axles provide less give after years of use, (the rubber takes a set) and that may have contributed to more stress on the frame.
I have no idea how the cost of a frame repair and a new axle compares to a new 16er, and Minnesota is a long detour on the way to Newfoundland, but a new Scamp may not be a bad idea.
Good luck!
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01-25-2014, 06:57 AM
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#70
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Paul,
A new Scamp is out of the question for us. First, only God knows when the ice will be off the pond in Backus and we have to be in Newfoundland in early May, second, it would be a significant effort to bring a new Scamp 16 up to the level of our 22 year old. I'm certain one way or the other we can restore this trailer to full function.
We have gone 'out of our way' to Backus to replace a faulty ball receiver, a worth while and interesting trip.
As to the axle, I believe it's the original. I do monitor up and down motion. A line in the rear window of our Honda lines up with the rock shield latches allowing me to see up and down motion in my rear view mirror. As well it's rare that anything moves inside the trailer when traveling. I have considered adding shocks to the trailer as some have done.
The multiple 1x3 beams are all open ended.
Right now my first responsibility is to get the trailer off the RV site we are on so it can be repaired at the welder's shop, that's planned for Monday. After that I should have a better position from which to evaluate the frame future.
As bad as the situation is, at leasr it provides information to others.
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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01-25-2014, 07:21 AM
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#71
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Senior Member
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Trillium 4500 - 1976, 1978, 1979, 1300 - 1977, and a 1973
Alberta
Posts: 6,926
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Norm, With the multiple mods you have done to that Scamp, I can see why a replacement is not in the cards. Like you said, bringing it up to that level would be way more work then repairing the frame. Once properly repaired and reinforced, that frame will likely get many more laps around North America.
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01-25-2014, 08:25 AM
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#72
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Senior Member
Name: Jason
Trailer: 2007 Eggcamper & Homemade Tear Drop
New York
Posts: 663
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Norm
I cant see any thing wrong with welding your frame I have not found a trailer frame I could not fix that suffered from a stress break by welding in supports. That is if it is not all rusted out. Good luck, glad Ginny and you are all right!!!!
Jason
__________________
Jason
If you think you are to small to make a difference just try sleeping with a mosquito –- The Dally Lama
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01-25-2014, 10:30 AM
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#73
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul O.
The rubber springs used on Scamp axles provide less give after years of use, (the rubber takes a set) and that may have contributed to more stress on the frame.
I have no idea how the cost of a frame repair and a new axle compares to a new 16er, and Minnesota is a long detour on the way to Newfoundland, but a new Scamp may not be a bad idea.
Good luck!
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A whole new Scamp? Really Why? What are the differences between a 22 year old Scamp and new one that you are aware of other than a new frame and axle?
Replacing the full frame and axle due to age and fatigue are pretty common updates done by many here & the trailer does not need to go all the way back to Scamp to have it done. A completely change of a full frame and axle can and has been done many times for a *lot* less money than buying a new Scamp..
Not sure if you are aware but other than a change in the fabric used on the cushions Scamp isn't known to have changed much of anything over the last 22 years. Funny enough up until a couple of years ago Scamp was using interior and exterior photos taken 15 years ago or more on their website to promote their trailers - simple because nothing had changed in that time! Seriously LOL
As an owner of a Scamp that has had several additions and modifications and updates, done to it to make it more user/camping friendly & personlized to my needs, I sure wouldn't want to start all over again with the costs and time spent on those mods and additions simple because the trailer needs a new axle or frame.
If I was the OP and had such a frame failure on my own trailer which is about the same age and I know I had put 30,000 miles on it in recent years and planned to do the same again over the next 3 years, I think I would put a new frame and axle on it rather than repair. Pretty sure I would sleep better having done so. But thats just me.
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01-25-2014, 10:33 AM
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#74
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian G.
I cannot say definitively but the frame rails I have seen are 1.5" x 3", 16 gauge (which is only 1/16" thick).
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That sounded a little thin to me, so I went out and mic'd the frame tubing on my 2004 Scamp.
The tube OD is correct at 1.5"X3".
However..... The thickness is >5/32"measured in four different places.
That is 2-1/2 times as thick as the 1/16th(2/32") number quoted above.
I hope that helps ease some minds here.
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01-25-2014, 11:40 AM
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#75
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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Norm, I'd get the fish plates for now. Get you home to NH anyway.
jack
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01-25-2014, 12:22 PM
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#76
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Jack,
I plan to have a number of areas welded, both large and small. Small things include the Propane mounting ring, the anti=sway bar ball mount, both presently screwed down.
As well as the frame fracture, I intend to add fishplates to the present reinforcement at the base of the A entering the trailer.
In addition to the primary failures some other welds failed as well.
__________________
Norm and Ginny
2014 Honda Odyssey
1991 Scamp 16
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01-25-2014, 12:37 PM
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#77
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Commercial Member
Name: Ian
Trailer: 1974 Boler 1300 - 2014 Escape 19'
Alberta
Posts: 1,380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
That sounded a little thin to me, so I went out and mic'd the frame tubing on my 2004 Scamp.
The tube OD is correct at 1.5"X3".
However..... The thickness is >5/32"measured in four different places.
That is 2-1/2 times as thick as the 1/16th(2/32") number quoted above.
I hope that helps ease some minds here.
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Thanks for measuring your frame Floyd. Sounds like the frames got thicker on later model years. As I said in my post I have measured a number of frames, I should have kept a record of the years but I suspect they were all mid 1970's model and most of them were Boler's.
The main point being the frames on most of our trailers were designed to be light weight and I am sure the manufacturer(s) did not intend them to last as long as our trailer have. We should all inspect the frame on a regular basis looking for any signs of cracking or bends.
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01-25-2014, 01:00 PM
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#78
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Member
Name: Paul
Trailer: Scamp 13' 1977
California
Posts: 42
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Paul, Where did you live in Maine? I'm again looking at property there. __________________
Norm and Ginny
I was born in Portland, and raised in Southwest Harbor, on Mount Desert Island. I didn't realize it until I left for the military many decades ago, that that island really was one of the wonders of the world! It was, and to some extent still is, a different life. All good. As one of the popular bumper stickers says, "Maine, the way life should be!".
Are you looking for permanent residency or just becoming a snowbird? (Summer only and gone before snow flies!)
For a full time residence or vacation destination I would recommend far different criteria. I have been gone a long time (essentially since 1963) but have been back lots and still have many relatives and friends there. Strangely, there were almost 300 Mainiac Exiles here in Lompoc, PRK at one time! Still about 100+. Mostly ex military retirees.
Paul
Oh, scenic choices mean a lot too. Seashore, woods, privacy vs city access. It all gives different choices.
__________________
Paul Andreasen, TSgt, USAF (Ret) K1JAN
ROMAD, 601st DASS
(There's no such thing as an Ex-ROMAD)
Born in MAINE, living in Exile (Lompoc, CA)
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01-25-2014, 01:32 PM
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#79
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Senior Member
Name: Dave W
Trailer: Escape 19 and Escape 15B
Alberta
Posts: 523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842
Jack,
I plan to have a number of areas welded, both large and small. Small things include the Propane mounting ring, the anti=sway bar ball mount, both presently screwed down.
As well as the frame fracture, I intend to add fishplates to the present reinforcement at the base of the A entering the trailer.
In addition to the primary failures some other welds failed as well.
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Norm, I would expect that your trailer weight, tongue weight and overall weight distribution is going to change following your repairs. Would be interesting if you could check it out and report the changes back to the forum.
__________________
Dave W - 2013 Escape 19', 2013 Escape 15B and 2011 Toyota FJ Cruiser
"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." - Yogi Berra
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01-25-2014, 01:43 PM
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#80
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Senior Member
Trailer: 2004 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe
Posts: 8,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Romad
Paul, Where did you live in Maine? I'm again looking at property there. __________________
Norm and Ginny
I was born in Portland, and raised in Southwest Harbor, on Mount Desert Island. I didn't realize it until I left for the military many decades ago, that that island really was one of the wonders of the world! It was, and to some extent still is, a different life. All good. As one of the popular bumper stickers says, "Maine, the way life should be!".
Are you looking for permanent residency or just becoming a snowbird? (Summer only and gone before snow flies!)
For a full time residence or vacation destination I would recommend far different criteria. I have been gone a long time (essentially since 1963) but have been back lots and still have many relatives and friends there. Strangely, there were almost 300 Mainiac Exiles here in Lompoc, PRK at one time! Still about 100+. Mostly ex military retirees.
Paul
Oh, scenic choices mean a lot too. Seashore, woods, privacy vs city access. It all gives different choices.
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to take this thread a little further afield... If you are near Portland Maine, you must see the "Portland Pudgy" it is the coolest little boat I have ever seen and it is produced by a little company with the spirit which, like Scamp, produces a desirable product focused more on the customer than on corporate growth. Look Here....
Dimensions & Specifications | Portland Pudgy Proactive Lifeboat
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