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05-12-2011, 05:53 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Name: Josie&Craig
Trailer: Escape 21
South Carolina
Posts: 351
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Cooler/Cold Weather Camping and Winter Packages
"Regarding the travel trailer, I forgot that I own a Bigfoot with a winter package. Sorry! My pipes are encased in fiberglass and the cabin is double insulated. As a result, I was very comfortable camping in the Rockies with a malfunctioning heater and only sleeping bags to keep me warm. And the reason I bought a Bigfoot over a Scamp or Casita is that I planned to do winter and spring camping in colder climates."
This quote from JaneP on another thread got me to thinking. I dint want to hijack the other thread, so thought posing the question on it's own might bring discussion that would enlighten me.
When Mr. 2yax and I began thinking "full-time" one of the things we kept looking for in the stickies was Canadian style winter packages.
Li'l Scamp is nicely insulated on the inside, but JaneP's post reminded me all her main supply pipes are underbelly and exposed.
Are Bigfoots the only ones set up for cold weather camping?
__________________
"Not all those who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkein from Lord of the Rings..."Strider's Poem")
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05-12-2011, 11:19 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Name: Greg
Trailer: 72 Boler American
Indiana
Posts: 1,557
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In stickies they refer to all weather as four season.
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05-12-2011, 12:59 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Trailer: Sold Bigfoot. Shopping for Arctic Fox 22G
Missouri
Posts: 701
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There is or was a Canadian manufacturer called Travelair or Travelaire. I saw one at a dealership in Alaska in 2004. It was a stick built and I believe it was fully insulated.
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05-12-2011, 01:39 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
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Other than Bigfoot (not all Bigfoot trailers!) the only currrent manufacturer that's coming close is Escape. Fully tubbed and they offer double-pane windows (COOOL!) as an option on most of the models.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
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05-12-2011, 04:33 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1980 Burro
Posts: 288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2yax2go
! My pipes are encased in fiberglass and the cabin is double insulated.
Li'l Scamp is nicely insulated on the inside, but JaneP's post reminded me all her main supply pipes are underbelly and exposed.
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If the pipes are not locater inside a heated area the trailer, it does not matter much if they are insulated, they will still freeze. Insulation only slows down the rate of heat transfer, if there is no heat source for the pipes, it would just take a little longer to freeze with insulation than without it, but they would still freeze over night.
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05-12-2011, 04:45 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: Josie&Craig
Trailer: Escape 21
South Carolina
Posts: 351
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Mr. 2yax and I aren't planning on overwintering in Yellowstone or anything (although once upon a long time ago I'd have been game to try), but I can foresee that we might catch a late or early snow at some point in our adventures.
Our goal is to sort of do a reverse follow the seasons travel plan and be in cool places while it's hot and warm places when it's not. (or snuggly esconced in one of our various children's homes along the East Coast.)
Me and he were talking about electric heat strips for the underpipes. Which, of course, would only be workable having electric hook-ups.
He did say though, that he thought only the drains and grey water were vulnerable...still...it could be an issue. We'll have to do a little underbelly examination.
Eascapes, huh? I rather like those little rigs...would love to see one up close and personal, but are not available for long hauls yet where we might catch up with some of y'all at a gathering. I still owe the man 8 hours a day for a while longer yet. But, soon.
__________________
"Not all those who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkein from Lord of the Rings..."Strider's Poem")
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05-12-2011, 05:14 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: Greg
Trailer: 72 Boler American
Indiana
Posts: 1,557
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Yep, in Wyoming it might snow anytime.
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05-12-2011, 05:17 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 7,056
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Night time temperatures dipping to slightly below freezing generally wont' cause a problem. Open containers of water will freeze but pipes under a trailer won't freeze. Surfaces will radiate their heat into the space while under cover areas stay a bit warmer. Also snow can happen when air temperature is as high as 39°F. A light dusting won't cause your pipes to freeze. When we were in Big Bend the temperatures got down to 5°F at night, I think was one or two RVs that had the gray water valve freeze. As soon as it warmed up everything was ok. We were in a NO hookup area.
__________________
Byron & Anne enjoying the everyday Saturday thing.
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05-12-2011, 05:28 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Name: Josie&Craig
Trailer: Escape 21
South Carolina
Posts: 351
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"Yep, in Wyoming it might snow anytime."
Yup...and Flagstaff gets right chilly even on summer nights...as do some of the high desert places we hope to go.
Would some kind of underskirting help keep pipes any? I had a hair-brained idea of underskirting with a small ceramic heater underneath to keep them warm.
__________________
"Not all those who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkein from Lord of the Rings..."Strider's Poem")
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05-12-2011, 05:29 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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Our goal is to sort of do a reverse follow the seasons travel plan and be in cool places while it's hot and warm places when it's not.
We follow your plan when traveling.
Though we have been in cold and ice for a week or so at a time, we have never had any pipe freeze in our trailer. Our Sunline, thinly insulated, had an external grey tank and external grey and black drains we have never had them freeze. I will say we prepare for cold weather by not keeping our grey and black tanks full, dumping a little more often.
The most vulnerable piece is the outside water hose. We have used an electrical tape on it once while stuck in an unusual extended freeze in Seattle. In general we do not keep our water hose pressurized at night; as well we do not keep the internal water lines pressurized at night if it's a significant freeze. Not pressurizing the water lines gives a little expansion margin in case they freeze.
We typically do not run our heat at night though on occasion we will turn on a heater around 4AM. When we do we prefer a small electric heater. We usually carry an electric blanket to keep us warm and the rig quiet.
Obviously when we expect cold weather we prefer to have an electrical hookup.
Norm
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05-13-2011, 08:27 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Trailer: Bigfoot 21.5 ft (25B21RB)
Posts: 309
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The Bigfoot "winter package" is multi-faceted. The most critical feature is a ducted heating system that provides warm air to the enclosed areas around the tanks and water lines. That is why I run the gas furnace when I am camping in sub-freezing temps. My electric heater heats the cabin area, but doesn't provide heat to the plumbing. The insulation and double pane windows are great, too, for holding the heat.
That being said, whether anyone really needs a true 4-season trailer is very subjective. Just about any trailer can survive in conditions where the overnight low dips below freezing for a short time. I had a Casita in Alaska for several years and stayed comfortable. But I had to quit using the water system when it was freezing 24 hours a day. The furnace cycled on and off frequently due to the thin walls and single pane windows.
Another 4-season trailer that comes to mind is the Arctic Fox. It is a stick-built that is very popular in the far north.
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05-13-2011, 09:33 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Name: Norm and Ginny
Trailer: Scamp 16
Florida
Posts: 7,517
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David,
I agree that few trailers are designed for a continuous freeze. Fortunately most of us do not camp in a continuous freeze however many do camp in a night time freeze. Most rigs are easily capable of withstanding night time freezes. Our goal is to avoid cold weather but sometimes ......
Safe travels.
Norm
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05-16-2011, 03:28 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Name: Gord
Trailer: Escape 17b
British Columbia
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
Other than Bigfoot (not all Bigfoot trailers!) the only currrent manufacturer that's coming close is Escape. Fully tubbed and they offer double-pane windows (COOOL!) as an option on most of the models.
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Escape does off an insulation package for the tanks that includes heat tape etc. It is not (yet) on the website but available on request.
Apparently it does not have to be installed as part of the initial build so it can be added later.
Gord
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05-16-2011, 05:04 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2yax2go
Mr. 2yax and I aren't planning on overwintering in Yellowstone or anything (although once upon a long time ago I'd have been game to try), but I can foresee that we might catch a late or early snow at some point in our adventures.
Our goal is to sort of do a reverse follow the seasons travel plan and be in cool places while it's hot and warm places when it's not. (or snuggly esconced in one of our various children's homes along the East Coast.)
Me and he were talking about electric heat strips for the underpipes. Which, of course, would only be workable having electric hook-ups.
He did say though, that he thought only the drains and grey water were vulnerable...still...it could be an issue. We'll have to do a little underbelly examination.
Eascapes, huh? I rather like those little rigs...would love to see one up close and personal, but are not available for long hauls yet where we might catch up with some of y'all at a gathering. I still owe the man 8 hours a day for a while longer yet. But, soon.
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If you are in a Scamp then he is correct the only thing that is really valnerable is your grey water tank and the pipes leading to it. You could keep it drained to avoid any big problem. If its got a bit of water in it you can also add some anti freeze to it if your worried. You can avoid having a city water hose freeze up by not using it and just filling your water tank - its inside so it would have to be pretty darn cold with little or no heat in the trailer for a while in order for it to freeze.
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05-16-2011, 05:51 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: Josie&Craig
Trailer: Escape 21
South Carolina
Posts: 351
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That Northern Lite TT looks right nice.
I knew about the Artic Fox campers and it's TT counterpart Nash....nice, but heavy...and the Nash was a top runner before we considered fibreglas.
All in all, we may be just fine....reckon time will tell the tale. In the mean while, we'll keep our eyes and ears open for suggestions on how to keep warm and unfrozen.
Thanks, y'all...Mr. 2yax and I appreciate the discussion.
__________________
"Not all those who wander are lost." (J.R.R. Tolkein from Lord of the Rings..."Strider's Poem")
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05-20-2011, 03:26 PM
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#17
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Member
Trailer: Casita
Posts: 33
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We full-timed for 18 months in a Casita SD17 including a cold December spent in an RV park in Utah. Here's our experience.
You can stay warm enough in the trailer, that's not the issue. Freezing the fluid lines is the problem. The holding tanks we never had issues with. The issue is the waste pipe and the grey pipe, and their valves that can freeze.
We lined the windows with Reflectix and that was a tremendous help. We ended up using the Reflectix in the summer too, to block strong sunlight.
In our experience, pipes started freezing when the temperature went below 25 degrees and stayed there for any length of time. We froze our pipes solid more than once and thawed them with a hair dryer. Our Casita held up fine having the black and grey lines and valves freezing solid. They worked after they thawed, no pipes or joints cracked.
The sewer drain pipe running from your RV to the sewer also can freeze as well as your city water supply line.
We skirted our trailer with concrete blankets and wrapped our city water supply line with heat tape and insulation. When we dumped we drained the sewer line completely. Have a straight, gentle incline between the sewer and the sewer valve is important. With those precautions our Casita warmly housed us down to daytime single digit temperatures.
As I understand it, 4 season trailers fiberglass insulate their lines and heat their holding tanks. Sure would make it easier, but you can do winter in a Casita. It's not easy, but you can do it. The other full-timers in the RV park showed us how. They saved us!
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05-20-2011, 06:18 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Trailer: Sold Bigfoot. Shopping for Arctic Fox 22G
Missouri
Posts: 701
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Don't forget to keep your hot water heater on. Most of them are exposed to outside cold.
When it gets cold it is best not to try to leave a hose hooked up to city water. Fill your tanks and disconnect and drain the hose.
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