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Old 02-05-2021, 10:28 AM   #101
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https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=139297&stc=1&d=1612536 685
And I doubt that this is counting the number of those who died of white people diseases like smallpox.

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Old 02-05-2021, 10:33 AM   #102
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Yeah, unfortunately and historically a lot of members are pretty harsh when it comes to something new. I prefer to applaud a new manufacturer and wish them the best. Anything new in the all-molded-towable offerings benefits us all because it often forces the current crop of manufacturers to up their game.
It is not the campers; it is the way they are being advertised. Just remove the text talking about Hernan Cortes dominating the indigenous people like this camper will dominate. Culturally short-sighted. I would not buy as I have indigenous ancestors even if I had the funds and were not completely fond of my Silver Cloud.


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Old 02-05-2021, 11:00 AM   #103
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It is not the campers; it is the way they are being advertised. Just remove the text talking about Hernan Cortes dominating the indigenous people like this camper will dominate. Culturally short-sighted. I would not buy as I have indigenous ancestors even if I had the funds and were not completely fond of my Silver Cloud.


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Cindy,
Were you related to the Aztecs that performed ritual human sacrifice? I don't think so.
You are missing the point. It has nothing to do with people. It's a metaphor. Our new campers will be responsible for making ALL the RV companies step up their game. We will never be able to build all the campers that the world needs. There are two types of customers, the ones that want the cheapest product on the market and then there are the ones that want the best one on the market. We are after the latter. However, with advanced manufacturing techniques, we will be able to provide a better product for less money. Just look at the high end competitors prices and then compare ours and for example look at our standard equipped appliances. 4.7 cubic foot frig vs our 8 cubic foot frig. I personally joined this forum and the RV industry to help improve it and was hoping to get suggestions on what everyone would like to see in a new camper, but it looks like that is not going to happen here. It also appears that the vast majority of you have received your mechanical engineering degree form "university of RV land". We are trying to fix that. If all of you only have negative comments then I won't post here anymore. And I will just say good luck and stay tuned and watch what we do to the RV industry.
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Old 02-05-2021, 11:23 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by CortesCampersCEO View Post
Cindy,
Were you related to the Aztecs that performed ritual human sacrifice? I don't think so.
You are missing the point. It has nothing to do with people. It's a metaphor. Our new campers will be responsible for making ALL the RV companies step up their game. We will never be able to build all the campers that the world needs. There are two types of customers, the ones that want the cheapest product on the market and then there are the ones that want the best one on the market. We are after the latter. However, with advanced manufacturing techniques, we will be able to provide a better product for less money. Just look at the high end competitors prices and then compare ours and for example look at our standard equipped appliances. 4.7 cubic foot frig vs our 8 cubic foot frig. I personally joined this forum and the RV industry to help improve it and was hoping to get suggestions on what everyone would like to see in a new camper, but it looks like that is not going to happen here. It also appears that the vast majority of you have received your mechanical engineering degree form "university of RV land". We are trying to fix that. If all of you only have negative comments then I won't post here anymore. And I will just say good luck and stay tuned and watch what we do to the RV industry.
Paul, most of the posts in this thread do talk about legitimate concerns about trailers in general and some possible advantages/disadvantages in the materials you are using for your trailers. It wasn't until post 33 that someone mentioned that your approach to naming the trailers may cause some possible customers to look elsewhere. Your response in Post 88 is what really ratcheted up the rhetoric around the history of Cortes. It was not a good look for you or your company. You could have easily defused the situation and scored some points by reacting in a less adversarial manner. Most people on this site really do support most any fiberglass trailer company with a few exceptions of companies that burned their customers. I would ask that instead of getting defensive, you review what has been said and look at it from the other person's point of view. Then address some of the concerns with the understanding that any criticism is not of a personal nature.
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Old 02-05-2021, 11:38 AM   #105
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Anthony, do you work for Cortes?
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Originally Posted by Defenestrator View Post
Starting to think the answer is "yes". Not 100% sure, but it definitely smells more and more like astroturfing the more he posts.
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Originally Posted by ZachO View Post
Anthony and Paul had better get together and work it out, otherwise the Cortes name isn't going to have a happy association around here.
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Originally Posted by CortesCampersCEO View Post
What negative response? Sorry if we somehow inadvertently offended someone.
Mr. Spivak, it certainly appears that the forum members were correct regarding Anthony, (apparently of your affiliate MIG Marine).

Not that my opinion will matter much in the greater scheme of things, but personally I would think that disingenuous behavior might be a poor strategy for a new company interested in entering a niche market. You might contrast this with how people speak of Reace and Tammy Harmatuik, the original founders of the Escape Trailer company, or the owners of Oliver, etc.

Personally, I'll try to judge the trailers on their merits. I anticipate that many of the forum members here share my great interest in seeing some more photos of your prototype units. (Please don't hesitate to ask for help with posting photos here on the forum as it's a bit unintuitive.)
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Old 02-05-2021, 11:43 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Alex Adams View Post
Paul, most of the posts in this thread do talk about legitimate concerns about trailers in general and some possible advantages/disadvantages in the materials you are using for your trailers. It wasn't until post 33 that someone mentioned that your approach to naming the trailers may cause some possible customers to look elsewhere. Your response in Post 88 is what really ratcheted up the rhetoric around the history of Cortes. It was not a good look for you or your company. You could have easily defused the situation and scored some points by reacting in a less adversarial manner. Most people on this site really do support most any fiberglass trailer company with a few exceptions of companies that burned their customers. I would ask that instead of getting defensive, you review what has been said and look at it from the other person's point of view. Then address some of the concerns with the understanding that any criticism is not of a personal nature.

Ok, point taken thank you!

We have No intentions of burning anyone. We also have no intentions on how to make the most amount of money. We also had no intentions on getting into this industry. With that being said, we are only trying to make a camper with the absolute best materials, without getting ridiculous, and then selling it as inexpensively as possible. We also know, that once we get started, other manufacturers will copy what we are doing, that is why we have filed for patents before we opened our big mouths. Our first patent is on using aluminized fiberglass. That material is designed to reflect heat out and therefore will save on heating and cooling. Our larger campers will not need two air conditioners on top like Airstream has. Although this material is much more expensive than chopper gun fiberglass, it will save in the long run. Just like solar panels on a home. The second patent we filed for is making the metal chassis/frame that the camper sits on to be made made from carbon fiber and be molded right into the bottom fiberglass half. When the bottom half is pulled from the mold, the chassis is already done and all you do is bolt on the Timbren axles and off you go. Think of the labor savings. Kinda like they did on Camaros. Although pound for pound, CF costs waaay more than steel, we believe by replacing the cheap steel frame with a unibody carbon fiber structure, it will actually cost less to do this and in the end you will have a much lighter camper that is impervious to rust or corrosion. Yes, I know Airstream is NOT made of fiberglass. I also have no idea why they use plywood in the floors.

Thanx again,
Paul
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:02 PM   #107
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Paul, I am intrigued by what you have shown so far and will be keeping an eye out for more detailed information. I was wondering if the aluminized fiberglass matting would reflect the heat without heating up like aluminum or other metal surfaces would.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:08 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Civilguy View Post
Mr. Spivak, it certainly appears that the forum members were correct regarding Anthony, (apparently of your affiliate MIG Marine).

Not that my opinion will matter much in the greater scheme of things, but personally I would think that disingenuous behavior might be a poor strategy for a new company interested in entering a niche market. You might contrast this with how people speak of Reace and Tammy Harmatuik, the original founders of the Escape Trailer company, or the owners of Oliver, etc.

Personally, I'll try to judge the trailers on their merits. I anticipate that many of the forum members here share my great interest in seeing some more photos of your prototype units. (Please don't hesitate to ask for help with posting photos here on the forum as it's a bit unintuitive.)
Mike,
Thanx for the input.

I have no idea who Anthony is. He could be one of our employees or one of our 500 or so shareholders.

We are working 7 days a week to get more photos up asap. We already have a backlog of orders. We also have many entrepreneurial people, such as Youtubers, signing up to be an exclusive territory dealer. Yes, we also have traditional RV dealers signing up.

The only reason we don't have interior pictures is because we are waiting for all the appliances to show up from Furrion. There is also a backlog of aluminized fiberglass, so we had to put up a picture of a standard white gelcoat version. Next week we should be able to show our hybrid, Aluminized fiberglass and metallic blue model that we're making for someone to be pulled behind a Corvette.

We're also kicking around the idea of including a "lifetime warranty to the original owner" concept. Excluding appliances etc. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanx,
Paul
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:08 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by CortesCampersCEO View Post
Ok, point taken thank you!

We have No intentions of burning anyone. We also have no intentions on how to make the most amount of money. We also had no intentions on getting into this industry. With that being said, we are only trying to make a camper with the absolute best materials, without getting ridiculous, and then selling it as inexpensively as possible. We also know, that once we get started, other manufacturers will copy what we are doing, that is why we have filed for patents before we opened our big mouths. Our first patent is on using aluminized fiberglass. That material is designed to reflect heat out and therefore will save on heating and cooling. Our larger campers will not need two air conditioners on top like Airstream has. Although this material is much more expensive than chopper gun fiberglass, it will save in the long run. Just like solar panels on a home. The second patent we filed for is making the metal chassis/frame that the camper sits on to be made made from carbon fiber and be molded right into the bottom fiberglass half. When the bottom half is pulled from the mold, the chassis is already done and all you do is bolt on the Timbren axles and off you go. Think of the labor savings. Kinda like they did on Camaros. Although pound for pound, CF costs waaay more than steel, we believe by replacing the cheap steel frame with a unibody carbon fiber structure, it will actually cost less to do this and in the end you will have a much lighter camper that is impervious to rust or corrosion. Yes, I know Airstream is NOT made of fiberglass. I also have no idea why they use plywood in the floors.

Thanx again,
Paul
I may be wrong but I think this is what the Nest had intended but was abandoned by Airstream when they bought Nest.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:15 PM   #110
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I may be wrong but I think this is what the Nest had intended but was abandoned by Airstream when they bought Nest.
Alex,
here is where the stuff comes from.



You’ve never seen metal move quite like this!
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:18 PM   #111
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The other supplier is Newtex.
Z-FLEX ALUMINIZED FIBERGLASS FABRICS
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Z-Flex Aluminized fiberglass fabrics are well-suited for applications requiring insulation and a superior radiant barrier.

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Z-Flex aluminized fiberglass fabrics are made from inorganic materials so they will not produce hazardous out-gassing.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:24 PM   #112
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Paul, what were you thinking of using for insulation and finished surface on the inside of the shell? Just curious since there is a lot of debate here between the "rat" fur style of interior versus the "elephant" hide style of interior.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:25 PM   #113
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I may be wrong but I think this is what the Nest had intended but was abandoned by Airstream when they bought Nest.
Hi Mikmay,
The reason they dropped the line is because their lightweight fiberglass camper weighed MORE than their metal one.

The point that everyone is missing is the fact that all fiberglass is not the same.

Anyone saying they have a camper made out of fiberglass is the equivalent of saying "My new truck is made out of metal!"

Great, is it made out of cast iron, steel, aluminum, or titanium??

Chopper gun fiberglass, is the direct equivalent of cast iron. It's heavy, brittle and cheap. When did the auto manufacturers get away from cast iron cylinder blocks? see my point? The new for trucks are all aluminum, except for the frame. because of Ford, everyone else will have to switch. The whole engine is aluminum, the body is now aluminum.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:34 PM   #114
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Hi Alex,
there is a picture on our website that shows a cross section of a wall. Unlike Olive that has two separate chopper gun shells with an airgap and reflectix in between. Our inner and outer laminates are cored with polypropylene honeycomb that comes from a company called Carboncore.

What this means is that there is NO gap between our inner and outer layers. We use one inch on the sides and roof, but we use two inch honeycomb on the floor.

On our dual axle models we will use two inch everywhere.
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Old 02-05-2021, 12:49 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by CortesCampersCEO View Post
Hi Alex,
there is a picture on our website that shows a cross section of a wall. Unlike Olive that has two separate chopper gun shells with an airgap and reflectix in between. Our inner and outer laminates are cored with polypropylene honeycomb that comes from a company called Carboncore.

What this means is that there is NO gap between our inner and outer layers. We use one inch on the sides and roof, but we use two inch honeycomb on the floor.

On our dual axle models we will use two inch everywhere.
Very interesting! I can't wait for the pandemic to be over so I can hopefully see one in the wild.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:25 PM   #116
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Anytime I find someone trying to interject their religious or political beliefs into the marketing of their business , I simply walk away .
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:31 PM   #117
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Anytime I find someone trying to interject their religious or political beliefs into the marketing of their business , I simply walk away .

That's why I switched from Interstate to Trojan battery.
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Old 02-05-2021, 01:41 PM   #118
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Yes, my issue with this is

A- the religiosity (would you sell to a non-christian? and certainly christians have never sacrificed anyone...) and

B- the fishiness of Anthony showing up, complaining about current fiberglass trailers but praising Cortes, a company without any trailers for sale, using their insider lingo about their trailer products and other company products. Someone accuses him of being a Cortes employee, which he never denies. I bring up the idea of "it's totally normal for companies to come here, honestly, asking for feedback", rather than what it seemed like was happening, which was an employee trying to drum up support without any disclosure of being an employee. And then Anthony stops posting in the thread and suddenly here's a new user with the name CortesCampersCEO posting in his place, who also hasn't addressed the accusations.

Now I won't deny that ignoring accusations isn't sometimes a good defense against them, but, all in all, things are pretty fishy. Did someone point out this thread to Cortes? Anthony really was just an unhappy Casita owner who got completely indoctrinated by the Cortes website? And Paul is a separate person with no idea who Anthony is? Are they the same person, or both work for Cortes, but now Paul is trying the "honest" approach without owning up to the initial shadiness?

I have no idea. But that's the deceit I mention, as being a possibility. I have no idea. I'll never buy one, so I'm not the target audience, so I'll go ahead and stay out of this thread so you can all talk.
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Old 02-05-2021, 02:00 PM   #119
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Cindy,
Were you related to the Aztecs that performed ritual human sacrifice? I don't think so.
You are missing the point. It has nothing to do with people. It's a metaphor. Our new campers will be responsible for making ALL the RV companies step up their game. We will never be able to build all the campers that the world needs. There are two types of customers, the ones that want the cheapest product on the market and then there are the ones that want the best one on the market. We are after the latter. However, with advanced manufacturing techniques, we will be able to provide a better product for less money. Just look at the high end competitors prices and then compare ours and for example look at our standard equipped appliances. 4.7 cubic foot frig vs our 8 cubic foot frig. I personally joined this forum and the RV industry to help improve it and was hoping to get suggestions on what everyone would like to see in a new camper, but it looks like that is not going to happen here. It also appears that the vast majority of you have received your mechanical engineering degree form "university of RV land". We are trying to fix that. If all of you only have negative comments then I won't post here anymore. And I will just say good luck and stay tuned and watch what we do to the RV industry.
I have not missed the point. My point is that you need to be more culturally thoughtful in your advertisements. Yes, I could be related to the Aztec. The Shawnee, my tribe, recognizes 4 primary colors as do other tribes, but instead of black, they recognize dark blue from the water they crossed, i.e. the Gulf of Mexico, to get to this continent. My current state, IL, has a wonderful indigenous spot to visit, Cahokia, indigenous people who traded with Shawnee who lived at Starved Rock State Park in IL (The Shawnee came from PA and OH, close to where you have said you came from. My mixed ancestors came from Huntingdon, Siippery Rock Beaver County and Licking County, OH.) Their Shawnee relatives lived at Starved Rock, people who traded and interacted with people connected to Central America. The Cahokia have been proven to have come from Central American indigenous peoples. As my grandmother said, her people met my German father's people when they came over. I have been to Cahokia and seen their level of civilization. I find the comparison to the conquering of the Aztec offensive. Indigenous people did not scalp white people until the white people taught them to do it.

I wish you luck in your endeavor. The campers sound like they might have a real future. As owner of the longest fiberglass camper made so far, I can tell you that at almost every fiberglass rally we have attended, someone has offered to buy our 28 foot fiberglass camper (I can also say that others fuss about the weight of our camper too, so they prefer their smaller campers, which you also plan to offer.). I also know that some folks on the Facebook Bigfoot forums look for molded fiberglass motorhomes like Bigfoot used to offer. Your future plans meet all these desires.

I wish you luck. If you wish to see interior pix of our camper, I would be happy to send them to you to help you in your future design.

If you are at a fiberglass rally where I am and would like a tour of our camper to help in the design of your longer trailers, you are welcome as soon as our Covid vaccines are fully operational (Star Wars!!?). We can tell you what we like and what we do not like in our 28' camper (the bathroom mirror location!). We run the Pink Elephant Rally, but Covid has changed the location from the MI River to the Volga River. You can find information about the rally in another thread.


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Old 02-05-2021, 02:02 PM   #120
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Yes, my issue with this is

A- the religiosity (would you sell to a non-christian? and certainly christians have never sacrificed anyone...) and

B- the fishiness of Anthony showing up, complaining about current fiberglass trailers but praising Cortes, a company without any trailers for sale, using their insider lingo about their trailer products and other company products. Someone accuses him of being a Cortes employee, which he never denies. I bring up the idea of "it's totally normal for companies to come here, honestly, asking for feedback", rather than what it seemed like was happening, which was an employee trying to drum up support without any disclosure of being an employee. And then Anthony stops posting in the thread and suddenly here's a new user with the name CortesCampersCEO posting in his place, who also hasn't addressed the accusations.

Now I won't deny that ignoring accusations isn't sometimes a good defense against them, but, all in all, things are pretty fishy. Did someone point out this thread to Cortes? Anthony really was just an unhappy Casita owner who got completely indoctrinated by the Cortes website? And Paul is a separate person with no idea who Anthony is? Are they the same person, or both work for Cortes, but now Paul is trying the "honest" approach without owning up to the initial shadiness?

I have no idea. But that's the deceit I mention, as being a possibility. I have no idea. I'll never buy one, so I'm not the target audience, so I'll go ahead and stay out of this thread so you can all talk.
Zach,
I AM the CEO of Cortes Campers. I am not trying to be anyone else. You can call our number and ask for me. As for Anthony, I have stated before, I don't know who he is. I stated he could be one of our many employees or he could be one of our shareholders, or maybe he is just one of our fans that also has a Casita with a rooted floor. Why don't you ask him to send you a picture of his rotted floor if this person is of great concern to you. Where is the deceit?

I also have no idea where religion or politics is in our name or our campers. Luckily we are in Cleveland, Ohio and NOT Columbus, Ohio. God forbid if anything is made in Columbus.

I'm glad you're happy with your Canadian made Bigfoot.

If you see no need for product improvements and you are completely happy with your Bigfoot, then I see no reason for you to be on this thread.

As for selling to a non-Christian, I would sell to anyone except to someone that commits human sacrifices.

Are you OK with that corporate philosophy?
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