Denied a tent site?

[melissab]

When traveling last summer between WY and FL we found were allowed tent sites when all the RV sites were full at a couple of CG. Had our trailer not been so little I dont know if that would have been the case. I figured they'd rather make some money off the tent site rather then let it go unused and lose revenue. We never stopped before 10pm and sometimes as late as 1am (stupid GPS couldnt find the CG) so that may have been a factor as well knowing it's not very likely tenters would show up and want our spot that late. Also, there were plenty of tent sites available although we did get the last one in one instance.

[Art VanDelay]

Byron said: What's "self contained"?? Oh, I know you have a potty on board. Hmmm... I wonder how tenters manage without a potty in their tent?

Darwin Said: Yes I do have a potty and shower on board. The tent campers get up and walk to the camp ground facilities to do their business and do not contaminate the camping area where they lay down to sleep.

I wouldn't think of invading a tent camper site to park my self contained camper. It is about respecting them and the camp ground rules.

I say: Wouldn't you think a retired engineer could afford a self contained unit?

[john warren]

its their campground,,,you live by their rules.
and along that thought, i have considered as a retirement business a"small camper" camp ground. would be limited to under ,,say 25 foot. and possibly adults only. while i love kids,,would be nice to have a place where one could be without them around.
of course i would make exceptions to the small camper theme for the swedish bikini team and their mega camper.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Art VanDelay

Byron said: What's "self contained"?? Oh, I know you have a potty on board. Hmmm... I wonder how tenters manage without a potty in their tent?

Darwin Said: Yes I do have a potty and shower on board. The tent campers get up and walk to the camp ground facilities to do their business and do not contaminate the camping area where they lay down to sleep.

I wouldn't think of invading a tent camper site to park my self contained camper. It is about respecting them and the camp ground rules.

I say: Wouldn't you think a retired engineer could afford a self contained unit?

Yup, But, I also have free choice, and choose not too.

[Robin G]

Raz, not to keep the qibbling going, but hope to bring reality to the thoughts on site designation and priceing. Yes $30 plus dollars a night seem's a little rich for a plot of grass and dirt. But that is assuming we know what it cost to operate that plot of grass and dirt.

What people don't understand is the cost involved in running a campground/rvpark. Of course start up cost of property, development including buildings and everything involved with the building, toilets, sinks, tile, carpet, lighting etc . Millionaires don't tend to develop campgrounds/rvparks, so most have to spread the cost over years of operating a business. Then you have, gravel, landscaping, underground utilitys, everything above ground that makes those utilitys surface, pavement, concerte, signs, pinic tables, etc, etc, etc. And anything and everything involved with devolping the campground/rvpark as you want it. Development aside you have daily cost that all come out of the price of a nightly site. Yes some things come out as penny's. But beleive me when I say, you can penny a nightly rate to death!



I don't have my old paperwork, but will try to elaborate from memory! Of course insurance, taxes come to mind right off. Then most communties have a bed tax (tourist tax) as well as cost for every license you are required to have to do business. But then you have electric bills, water and sewer bills, believe me when I say the first $8000 electric bill (yes, I said eight thousand dollar electric bill for 30 days of electric service) is a reality check!

Of course all cost would depend on the type and size of a particular campground/rvpark. But each cost is spread out between all sites. You have cost of maintaining the campground/rvpark such as lawn mowing (the cost of buying lawn mowers, rakes, shovels, etc), watering landscaping (hoses, sprinklers, etc), trash removal ( trash bins, trash bags), right down to window washing ( I realize, petty, but it all comes out of night site rate), The cost of paying for people to perform those task unless you yourself as owner can do it all. Every flush of a toilet, shower, hand washing cost the campground. Not only water (if on city water, through water/sewer bills, if on well, the cost of electricty to bring the water to the tap). Can't tell you how many times a year we had to replace things such as plugs, spicets, latches, locks, shower curtains, windows,etc. Of course some due to use, but many due to stupidity or abuse!

Every piece of toilet paper, hand towels, squirt of hand soap (though people don't use soap all that often) cost and comes out of a nightly site rate. All the products used to keep the grass green, the toilets clean, the lawn mowers running, the mops, buckets, vacumes, etc. Many which need to be replaced often due to use. The cost of all the cleaning products, office supplies, the time, gas etc running around getting those supplies. The cost of paying someone to do them, unless you as the owner can do it all. The cost of advertising, most often advertising to give the camper a discount. If advertising was in just one advertisment that wouldn't be so bad. But rv'ers/campers like choice. So there are a mulitude of advertising choices. None, inexpensive!

The cost of providing internet access (and all that intails) pay phones, computers, etc. If it's provided as a service to a guest, it cost the campground/rvpark. The cost of having a office for you to call to make a reservation. The cost of a 1-800 number to provide the customer. Site maps, every maintence issue that arises from abuse by someone who either doesn't know better or doesn't give a rat's behind. It all comes out of a nightly rate....... Again, many things come out to penny's over a camping season. But the cost spread out for a full 365 days even if your only open for a 4 month period. In a perfect world the bills would stop the day the guest stop coming due to seasons end. But in reality it doesn't. So in order to provide that plot of dirt and grass the cost of the whole year has to be taken into consideration. Nice if we could roll up the campground/rvpark for the winter months and use it as winter destination to expand the gross income. But I haven't seen a campground/rvpark with that feature yet.

I know I am missing so much more, but hope this gives everyone a hint as to why the price seems to keep going up and to why campgrounds//rvparks have their sites set up as they do.


As for site designation, due to trying to maximize seasonal income, many campgrounds /rvparks have to have structure of their sites to have the best possible season they can. Hence why they have certain sites designated for certain camping needs. Provide the majority of their guest with the most comfortable camping experience. They can't possibily provide everyone with every thing they think they deserve. A general overall good camping experience meet's most needs.


People don't realize, there are a bazillion things that can blow a season in a heart beat, fires, floods, weather, etc. Not every year is paydirt! Most seasonal campgrounds just get by. Of course there are exceptions to this therory, but reality doesn't allow many.

[Mr. W.]

There may also be a difference in how this is handled between the private parks and state parks. A private park can designate any site however they want, and enforce it however they want. No doubt.

However, I just got off the phone with the park ranger at White Pines Forest State Park in Illinois. Every site in the park is listed as "Tent Only", including the two concrete, handicap accessible sites with water and electric. They are registered as a Class B/S campground, meaning non-electric with showers. In Illinois, this earns them a "Tent Only" rating.

However, they do not care what type or size of rig you put on the site, as long as it fits safely and without encroaching on the neighboring sites or foliage. For Illinois state parks, the term "Tent Only" simply means non-electric. The ranger pointed out that in one or two of the parks, a few sites would be impossible to access with a trailer, but if you could magically get it onto the site, they would be fine with it.

This is a valuable discussion. Let's keep it nice.

[Garycamper]

Originally Posted by Robin G

Having owned and operated a rv park, our tent area was not accessible to any vehicle.

But had our tent sites been as you describe for the campground your staying at, I too would have deined you for the reasons given above......... Just for the comfort of a tenter had we ever had any.........

The tent sites are really just some level ground tucked somewhat under a few weedy trees adjacent to a large field. More of an afterthought in this mostly RV campground. I could see it if the sites were truly in the boondocks, but these few tent sites are nothing like that. What they are is $25.00 per night cheaper.

[Garycamper]

Originally Posted by Darwin Maring

Park a self contained camper in a tent site then sooner or later the grey or black tank drips or the owner empties the tanks in one of those wheeled contraptions to take over to the dump site and of course something drips on the ground and there you have it, a contaminated Tent site.

Ha! I can do that without a camper! But I see the point, and if the owner had said something like this I would completely understand, but she just made me feel dirty for even owing a camper. Stating we don't do that "because we don't want to start a trend" is akin to saying "Well, there goes the neighborhood" when an unwanted neighbor moves in.<_<

[Thomas G.]

Originally Posted by Robin G

Raz, not to keep the qibbling going, but............................................... .................................................. ........................................... Of course there are exceptions to this therory, but reality doesn't allow many.

So, if I understand you correctly, it is easy to run a campground and you are sure to make a ton of money.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

So, if I understand you correctly, it is easy to run a campground and you are sure to make a ton of money.

Judging by the number you see, one would sure think so.

[BCDave]

it looks like the bottom line is:

If you want to use a tent site, bring a tent

If you show with an RV - you should expect to go into (and pay for) an RV site

Whether or not you USE the current bush, the water , the internet the cable TV etc, etc - if they are there, you should expect to pay for them

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by BCDave

it looks like the bottom line is:

If you want to use a tent site, bring a tent

If you show with an RV - you should expect to go into (and pay for) and RV site

Whether or not you USE the current bush, the water , the internet the cable TV etc, etc - if they are there, you should expect to pay for them

Third alternative. Avoid all RV Parks/Resorts including many State Parks.

[Robin G]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

Judging by the number you see, one would sure think so.

No, but rewards come else where. The most enjoyable business I ever owned and operated. I have owned 3. The pay off is when you sell!

Originally Posted by Thomas G.

So, if I understand you correctly, it is easy to run a campground and you are sure to make a ton of money.

No.............. It's just everyone thinks they are smarter than all other campground/rvpark owners...... And campers want options. There are enough campgrounds/rvparks for about as many camping styles.

You could ask yourself the same question about just about any other business out there. Grocery stores, Hair Salons, car dealships, Dress shops, shoe stores, restraunts, gas stations etc.......


For as many who choose to avoid rvparks/resorts there are a ton of people who want to camp there. If you don't like a campground/rvpark find where you would be more comfortable camping and camp there. No one is forcing you to camp where you don't want to, and if they are the only person you can blame is yourself!

[RogerDat]

Location matters, stayed at a park that has a reputation for being "nice" setting in good location but horrible about rules and no ameneties unless you count pull-through and 50 amp service.

By my calculations the park pulled in over $20,000 in that Fri. - Sun, not counting showers, firewood and any guest fees.

So yes I'm pretty sure they are making decent money out of that park. If they were located in a more rustic location or someplace people went to fish no one would put up with the hassle. We almost reserved at another park after reading reviews but my sister did not want to drive her 5er on a dirt road to get to a park on a lake.

Pay showers for non-self contained but all sites are full hookup so self contained are paying same price and get included water and electric for own showers???? Bathrooms close from midnight to 6 am but they have a port-a-john??? Only allowed to purchase firewood from them and pay extra for any guests that come and visit. Can not check into park before 1:00 pm even if your spot is empty (it's a rule).

With a guy riding around on a golf cart to make sure everyone obeys the rules.

Oh and no tents allowed. Saw 5 popups, 2 teardrops, our scamp and a Que. Pretty much everything else in 200 site park was at least double axle. Due to location near tourist attractions it will be full or nearly full most weekends. Primarily with people without kids, in large RV's who will use it as a base for area activities. Nothing in the park to make it attractive for family camping.

For me it's a park I won't plan on going to again, it was $10 more a night than a state park and those bathrooms are available 24 hrs. and I can adjust the water temp in the at state park shower as opposed to only on/off when you feed it a quarter.

I guess my point is folks run their park the way they want and charge what they want. It's my job to find out if what they sell meets my desires or needs at a price point I will pay. In this case it was near event I was attending and suited others in our party so as BCDave said I paid for 50 amp service that I can't use and paid a buck to take a tepid shower.

If I ever get my new axle for good ground clearence I'm heading back down the National Forest fire access roads again to where I LIKE to camp.

[BCDave]

There are as many "good" RV campgrounds as "bad" ones. And everyone wants something different. You may never want to go back to the site with "good location plus 50A service" and would prefer to a rustic seting.

For us, the trailer is a portable hotel room. Location relative to area attractions of where we park it is virtually the ONLY factor, but if we had to go to forest service campgrounds, we would never have bought it. We might have found that "campground" to be pretty much ideal.

The majority of our vacations are done by "fly to X and rent a car" or by "drive the car (sans trailer) and stay at hotels". This is usually no more expensive - or not much more - than towing a trailer when all is factored in, as well as being MUCH more comfortable and far more convenient.

Many folks go for the "camping experience". If that was the only alternative, we'd never leave home.

Different strokes - there as many ways to take a vacation as there are people.

[Darwin Maring]

Try the camp book with the GoodSam recommendations. They spell everything out.

[jenbooks]

This is a funny discussion because we tent camp and always ask for the RV (more expensive) hookup. If you're using a Golden Pass in National Forest it can be a bargain of course. But anyway, we like the water and electric.

At some RV parks, they give you the RV site for a tent, and charge you $20 a night. Instead of $30 or more. Because they know you don't have a big rig that's going to use a lot of a/c or heat etc.

Even at the KOA, we've asked for the RV hookups, because the tent sites are small and have too many leaves, often.

There are also sort of unwritten rules you can sense. Where we are now with the burrito, we didn't go into the section of the main loop which has the big motorhomes. They all gravitated together. And to be "respectful" we went where there were more travel trailers. But one night four guys on motorcyles came by and pitched four tents.

Every place is different. RV parks have generally been nicer than state parks. State parks can patrol you constantly.

[Paul Chet]

Of all places, we had a reservation at Yosemite (Crane Flat campground). We called in advance saying we would be checking in late and they assured us it was cool. We got to the closed ranger booth and there was a marker board posted with all late arrivals camp site numbers ... but not ours! It was getting late and we were worried so we finally found an open spot we liked and I was able to get the U Haul into a nice site and all set up. Next morning the ranger came by to check us in and was very excited at how cute and small it was ... AND that we got it into a tent site! We had no idea and I offered to move not wishing for any trouble but she said we did a great job of getting it in there and no need to move. Ya never know!

By the way ... we're going back to Crane Flat in 3 weeks to say the least!

[LukeP]

5 pages in 2 days!

Several people have said as tenters, they wdn't want an egg camping next to them (even w/o generators, etc. so basically a tent on wheels) I'm not sure I understand?

As a tenter for years, I LOVED having a self contained camper in the next site over. It was the only tent that we wouldn't hear everything that happened inside of it! Is that all bad?!

[Frederick L. Simson]

I've stayed in the same campsite in Springfield/Route 66 KOA (campsite #4 on the map) twice, the first time in a tent and the second time in the Compact Jr. The first time I told them we were using a tent, and the second time I asked for water & electric only for my trailer and didn't need a pull-thru site. I have learned that in a KOA if you ask for a sewer hook-up at your site you'll be amongst the big buses, but if you don't mind using the dump station and you can back-in OK then the sites are cheaper and nicer too.