E15 gas -----Please read

[Kevin K]

Not good for 2012 or older cars.
More info here

snopes.com: E15 Gasoline

[Nancy]

Would be nice to know which brand name companies sell E15. My thought is just to avoid the companies that sell it.

Nancy

[Francesca Knowles]

I'm actually surprised at Snopes for this one-it's very poorly documented.

There's no citation whatever for the claim that warranties won't be honored by vehicle manufacturers! That assertion's been around for awhile, ever since the "extend approved use" fight between ethanol producers and oil companies began.

Here's a link to an oil industry article- and there are plenty more out there.

But I'd sure like to see something-ANYTHING- from an actual carmaker that makes that warranty-voidance assertion.

Francesca

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I'm actually surprised at Snopes for this one-it's very poorly documented.

Francesca

The source of the Snopes story is actually a news bulletin put out by AAA and written by the President and CEO of AAA . The whole story and what was actually said on the topic can be found at: AAA New Room - story dated Dec 13 2012 called Suspend Sale of E15 Gasoline.

[Francesca Knowles]

Yeah- that's one of Snopes' two "references". It's strictly an opinion piece, and as I said, it contains neither quote from nor link to any automaker saying warranties will be voided.


Francesca

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

But I'd sure like to see something-ANYTHING- from an actual carmaker that makes that warranty-voidance assertion.

Francesca

Here's a news story that has a bit more info in regards to what auto makers have actually said and to whom. The story also indicates that Toyota has added a warning label on the fuel-filler caps of its 2012-and-later models stating: "Up to E10 gasoline only."

Wonder if thats true or what the manual's read regarding fuel? Anyone have a 2012 or newer Toyota?

[Dextersp1]

Would adding dry gas when you fill up with E15 help?

[Art VanDelay]

Would adding dry gas when you fill up with E15 help?

DryGas is more Alcohol.

Not good for 2012 or older cars.

Not true. I have a 2007 Flex Fuel that adjust all the way up to E85.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Art VanDelay

[COLOR="Blue"]
Not good for 2012 or older cars.

Not true. I have a 2007 Flex Fuel that adjust all the way up to E85.

Art reading some of the storys on the topic it appears that the auto makers agree its fine for use with a Flex Fuel car. Its the none Flex Fuel cars they are concerned with its use or at least some manufactures appear to be.

[Nancy]

My 2012 Rav4 owners manual states:

Toyota does not recommend blended gasoline

Toyota allows the use of oxygenate blended gasoline where the oxygenate content is up to 10 percent ethanol or 15 percent MTBE.

If you use gasohol in your Toyota, be sure that it has an octane rating no lower than 87.

Toyota does not recommend the use of gas containing MMT. (There are several lines regarding MMT)

(There is also more to read on the subject of gasoline, but this answers the question posed.)

Nancy

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

But I'd sure like to see something-ANYTHING- from an actual carmaker that makes that warranty-voidance assertion.
Francesca

2012 Toyota Tacoma Maintenance Warranty Manual on Page 13 New Vehicle Limited Warranty Reads in part:

"WHAT IS NOT COVERED

This warranty does not cover damage or
failures resulting directly or indirectly from
any of the following:

• Lack of or improper maintenance,
including use of fluids other than
those specified in the Owner’s Manual"

Toyota Tacoma 2012 Owners Manual page 628 Reads in part:
"Fuel Type: Unleaded gasoline, Octane Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher"

[rgrugg]

I wouldn't use the E85 if I had a flex fuel vehicle. There's less energy in it which translates to less power and fewer miles per gallon. I've heard but can't verify that the break even point would happen if there was a 50 cent price differential. I've seen a differential as low as 10 cents. That would actually cost you more to operate your car than buying regular gas.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Carol H

2012 Toyota Tacoma Maintenance Warranty Manual on Page 13 New Vehicle Limited Warranty Reads in part:

"WHAT IS NOT COVERED

This warranty does not cover damage or
failures resulting directly or indirectly from
any of the following:

• Lack of or improper maintenance,
including use of fluids other than
those specified in the Owner’s Manual"

Toyota Tacoma 2012 Owners Manual page 628 Reads in part:
"Fuel Type: Unleaded gasoline, Octane Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher"

Unless I'm mistaken, the fuel in question is "unleaded gasoline"- it just has alcohol in it, too. And I think it's available in the specified octane range...

Am I wrong?

Francesca

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

Unless I'm mistaken, the fuel in question is "unleaded gasoline"- it just has alcohol in it, too. And I think it's available in the specified octane range...

Am I wrong?

Francesca

humm not sure but I thought I read someplace that the E15 is 98 octane..... or ??? who knows for sure - hard to find on a quick google the answer ....

I also understand that the 2012 & 2013 Toyota's and Lexus's may have something on their gas caps that looks like this:

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Carol H

humm not sure but I thought I read someplace that the E15 is 98 octane.....

Well, then, since the owner's manual specifies 87 octane as a minimum number the use of E15 wouldn't be a "warranty-voiding fluid" event.

Francesca

[Carol H]

Francesca I found a link to a Toyota Camry Manual regarding gas to use. Reads in part:

"Use only gasoline containing a maximum of 10% ethanol.

DO NOT use any flex-fuel or gasoline that could contain more than 10% ethanol, including from any pump labeled E15, E30, E50, E85 (which are only some examples of fuel containing more than 10% ethanol)."

A little picture in the manual shows E15 as having 15% ethanol.

The Toyota Tacoma manual may have had something the same in it as above and perhaps I just didnt look hard enough through it.

But back to your original question in regards to asking to see something from a car maker that makes the warranty void assertion - it sure looks like with the way Toyota has worded their warranty and their manuals & signage on their gas caps, that using E15 might be a real bad idea ;-)

[Carol H]

Ok you got me curious and I went back and checked. Sure enough page 570 of the 2012 Toyota Tacoma manual reads: "Use only gasoline containing a maximum of 10% ethanol.
DO NOT use any flex-fuel or gasoline
that could contain more than 10% ethanol, including from any pump labeled
E15, E30, E50, E85 (which are only
some examples of fuel containing more
than 10% ethanol)."

[Donna D.]

We've been using 10% ethanol gas November-March for about four years now in Oregon. Crappy MPG. 10% Ethanol Blend Mandated in Oregon Beginning Tuesday - Salem-News.Com

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

We've been using 10% ethanol gas November-March for about four years now in Oregon. Crappy MPG. 10% Ethanol Blend Mandated in Oregon Beginning Tuesday - Salem-News.Com

Yup we have had to use 10% Ethonal gas here in Canada for a number of years as well.

[Imo.]

Missouri requires 10% Ethonol in their unleaded regular and above. The corn growers are happy, I'm sure the gas distributors are happy (less MPG), the small places that repair older chain saws, lawn mowers, and other gadgets are happy. The animal farmers are not happy as corn (which is a suppliment in most feeds) is too expensive to buy, everyone has had to replace small engine gadgets.