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Old 04-07-2018, 11:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mike Magee View Post
Bill, did the wsj article give a reason for the high turnover? Stressful? Dangerous? Uncompetitive pay?

The video, with all the hand crafting and labor intensive tasks, made me marvel that ETI does not have to charge more than they do. If Oliver's methods are so much more modern, the labor savings should enable a much lower production cost compared to ETI... so is Oliver raking in the dough, or what? It has me wondering.
Mike,

Olivers have four shells, not just two, with full insulation in between. Their methods are more modern in that they use a core material in the layup wherever more strength is needed, they use hand laid cloth in some areas and they glass in heavy pieces of aluminum to act as backing plates. Instead of wood interiors, they use cored fiberglass counters and gel coated fiberglass walls. The bath is all gel coated fiberglass instead of just a vinyl insert.

Their methods are more modern, but also much more expensive and difficult to do. They have an aluminum frame, all internal piping, use stainless steel fittings, grab bars and latches. The interior is gel coat instead of the "picture of wood" trim method shown in the video.

I was disappointed to see so much plywood going into the contruction and just a linolem floor instead of a harder composite material that could stand up to more abuse. There is no wood in the floor of an Oliver, so there is no place to trap water and fail.

More modern doesn't mean cheaper or easier.

Oliver's aren't for everyone though, they have a very simple floorplan that cannot be changed much, they have stark white walls with no reference to a wood look, they have no oven (except the microwave) and they are 7' wide.
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Old 04-08-2018, 06:53 AM   #22
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bill I observed everything you said about stooping, lifting so forth hard work but once you get used to it its not that hard. I managed grocery stores in my earlier life none of it is easy. Watch a grocery clerk sometime most people cant hold up to it!


I recall when beef came in full sides the meat cutter had to lift those things off the truck and rehang them on hooks and rails tricky to get them into the cooler.


now at least groceries come off the truck all stacked on pallets and they use a fork lift truck to unload 1500 pieces in an hour where in the old days it would take 3 hours.


honestly what I saw was happy workers taking pride in their work! I don't know what the turnover was at the factory but I bet it was low! Sort of like Scamps factory work force if you want to work in that small town its at the Scamp factory.


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Old 04-08-2018, 08:36 AM   #23
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The stick-built Jayco trailer video was speeded up, this Escape video was slowed down. Two different industries sending two different messages to two different groups of potential buyers. Isn't this material for a case study in marketing, or what?
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:37 AM   #24
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How long should trailers last? What is the right amount? Good question. Consider products like fax machines, cordless phones, VCRs & TVs with picture tubes. Generally they lasted longer than their usefullness.

Escape hasn't been in business fifty years, but experience suggests their trailers can last that long.

This isn't the biggest point, but it is worth mentioning that most of us won't last another 50 years.

RVs perform about 3 functions: A shelter from elements to sleep in, A place to prepare & eat food, and often a place to clean up. I can see how meeting those basic needs hasn't evolved a lot, and neither have fiberglass eggs.

Relatively high demand has made it so that fiberglass eggs have seen less innovation and evolution than stick built competitors. With all their slides, ATV storage, and outdoor kitchens, Features and affordability seem to outweigh longevity.

The Nest by Airstream has the potential to prod innovation at makers like Casita & Scamp, if not affordability.

More longevity versus affordability? I think affordability wins. We all admire Olivers, but most of us don't buy them. It will be interesting to see the offerings from 3D printers. Imagine new versions via software, instead of new molds.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Paul O. View Post
The stick-built Jayco trailer video was speeded up, this Escape video was slowed down. Two different industries sending two different messages to two different groups of potential buyers. Isn't this material for a case study in marketing, or what?
Of course the Jayco video was sped up. People aren't going to watch a 7 hour video. But it takes several weeks to build an Escape, slowed down video or not.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:51 AM   #26
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i am glad

tom I am cheap I admit that I am glad for innovation this makes what I want within my what I consider mad money range. I know there are far better rigs than our 95 scamper rig but it is exactly what I need not want!

maybe someday we will move up but me at 76 I doubt it. would I like an oliver you bet but the stark interior would take some getting used to in our world.

There are different income levels here and some of us want basic some want luxury nothing wrong with either viewpoints. I personally think those escapes are fantastic rigs will we ever buy one probably not!

I still think all the f/glass rigs are well built just look at some of the age of the scamps listed here for sale and viewing and when they were built. Fiberglass holds up where the stick builts are long gone!

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Old 04-08-2018, 09:16 AM   #27
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I'd be more than happy to plunk down the money for an Oliver, but their layout doesn't work for us. In the end, quality is very important, but if the layout doesn't meet my needs, the quality alone isn't enough for me to ignore the rest. I think Escape fills a niche in the fiberglass market - one of high quality, versatile layouts and multiple sizes, and all at a more reasonable price.
Pretty much my thoughts too. I am always willing to pay for quality, and no doubt an Oliver has a high level of quality built into it. But for me too, the interiors just didn't work, both with layout and look. I know many love the smooth white cabinets, while I prefer a warmer wood look.

Now, if I could get many of the Oliver design elements built with Escape size, layout and a warmer interior colour, I would be all over it.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:19 AM   #28
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All RV's require maintenance and repair. Eliminating all wood eliminates one kind of repair but eventually requires another, just as an all-molded shell eliminates one kind of maintenance (seams and associated leaks) but eventually requires another (gelcoat maintenance & stress fractures). Given enough time and/or abuse, the composite floor in an Oliver or Happier Camper will need fixing. We don't know yet what their failure modes will be- and I hope not for many more years- but some day we will.

One thing is certain. The more you understand about exactly how your trailer is put together, the better you can maintain and repair it as needed. That's why videos like this one are so useful.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:30 AM   #29
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Now, if I could get many of the Oliver design elements built with Escape size, layout and a warmer interior colour, I would be all over it.

Ollieva? Ollieva?

Are you listening to your potential customers and the marketplace calling your name???

I know the Oliver trailer folks are registered on this site!
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:50 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by k0wtz View Post


honestly what I saw was happy workers taking pride in their work! I don't know what the turnover was at the factory but I bet it was low! Sort of like Scamps factory work force if you want to work in that small town its at the Scamp factory.


bob
Yes I think this is a mistake many companies make. They move to a central location with other RV manufacturers in part to be close to suppliers. What they don’t realize is if an employee has a bad day, they can quit, walk across the street and have a new job the next day.

So instead of working through issues they quit.
I would bet Scamp and Escape both enjoy much lower turnover and a more dedicated workforce. Lower turnover means less money spent training new people, having a crew of experts that really know their jobs and much higher quality.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:56 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
Ollieva? Ollieva?

Are you listening to your potential customers and the marketplace calling your name???

I know they are registered on this site!
Me too! We sold our Casita because the front bath floorplan did not work for us. I much prefer a bed on one end and a large dinette on the other. To me, the Oliver is a super high quality Casita. I kind of wonder if they patterned their floorplan after Casita. So if you like the Casita floorplan but want higher quality and can afford 2 1/2 times the cost, Oliver is a wonderful choice.
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Old 04-08-2018, 11:22 AM   #32
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Olivers have many good points and like it, the Escape also has a full fibreglass bathroom and not a vinyl insert as one person suggested...as seen in the video. I love the Olivers frame but what scares the hell out of me is everything you canít get at to repair between the shells.
With some TLC I am sure our new Escape will last many years and we plan on passing it down to our daughter. In 1992 I redid an older Boler then made the mistake of selling it...I full expect to see it at the Boler Birthday Rally.
See you all there.
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Old 04-08-2018, 12:44 PM   #33
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For those who don't want plywood inside their eggs, another alternative is Snoozy. The front bed platform is the only plywood I'm aware of in those.

I personally do not admire an Oliver, and if someone gave one to me I'd sell it and probably buy an Escape; I just don't care for all that stark white or for their floor plan. My idea of a getaway trailer is a cozy cabin in the woods with nice looking wood cabinets. If they could put wood veneer on the walls and ceiling instead of vinyl, I would go for that!
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Old 04-08-2018, 12:47 PM   #34
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when

mike

when my ship comes in I am going to get me an Oliver white interior or not!

bob
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:16 PM   #35
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I love the Olivers frame but what scares the hell out of me is everything you canít get at to repair between the shells.
The "Oliver's" have already thought about this issue as there is access to anything and everything you would ever need to repair or replace in the Oliver trailer including the wiring.
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Old 04-08-2018, 01:31 PM   #36
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As well engineered and designed as the Oliver trailer is , not being able to repair the mechanical systems never entered my mind.
Considering Oliver's choices in both material and instalation methods I would believe failures or repairs are a rare occurance.
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Old 04-08-2018, 02:39 PM   #37
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Olivers have many good points and like it, the Escape also has a full fibreglass bathroom and not a vinyl insert as one person suggested...as seen in the video. I love the Olivers frame but what scares the hell out of me is everything you canít get at to repair between the shells.
With some TLC I am sure our new Escape will last many years and we plan on passing it down to our daughter. In 1992 I redid an older Boler then made the mistake of selling it...I full expect to see it at the Boler Birthday Rally.
See you all there.
Please post a list of all the things that cannot be reached between the hulls if there is a need to repair.
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Old 04-08-2018, 05:05 PM   #38
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I personally do not admire an Oliver, and if someone gave one to me I'd sell it and probably buy an Escape; I just don't care for all that stark white or for their floor plan. My idea of a getaway trailer is a cozy cabin in the woods with nice looking wood cabinets. If they could put wood veneer on the walls and ceiling instead of vinyl, I would go for that!
There is no vinyl on the walls and ceiling of an Oliver. Itís fiberglass. Most think of it as a blank canvas to hang all sorts of art, pictures, fabric, etc. The walls and ceiling and cabinets are all part of the inner hulls.

I like the the interior of the Escapes, too. Both can be cozy. Mike
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Old 04-08-2018, 06:22 PM   #39
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We have been to Backus MN and watched Scamps being assembled. We have been to Rice texas and watched Casita's being assembled . We watched the 15 minutes video showing an Escape being assembled . To be honest there isn't a lot of difference between the three .
At all 3 businesses I saw the same attention to detail and the same hurry up and get it done . To me the biggest difference between a Scamp , Casita and Escape is the location where they are built.
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Old 04-08-2018, 07:04 PM   #40
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We have been to Backus MN and watched Scamps being assembled. We have been to Rice texas and watched Casita's being assembled . We watched the 15 minutes video showing an Escape being assembled . To be honest there isn't a lot of difference between the three .
At all 3 businesses I saw the same attention to detail and the same hurry up and get it done . To me the biggest difference between a Scamp , Casita and Escape is the location where they are built.
If you say so Steve. These is how Scamp pulls the trailer out of the mold and puts the two halves together.
Attached Thumbnails
BondingTwoHalfs1.JPG   BondingTwoHalfs.JPG  

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