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Old 10-26-2017, 10:48 AM   #21
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I had always wanted a diesel pickup, but never purchased one. The newer small diesels looked more promising for my lifestyle, but the more I looked at them the less I wanted one.
Now it seems they all require DEF fluid to reduce emissions, and the emission reducing technology is getting so complicated that I worry about their reliability and cost to maintain.
Both VW and RAM have had issues with their emissions, with VW pulling diesels from the US market, and RAM having to halt sales of their Ecodiesel for a time recently.
The cost of diesel fuel used to be cheaper than gas, but now cost more in the USA.
Part of me still wants a diesel for the torque and fuel efficiency, but my practical side says not a good idea.
I am impressed with the improvements in efficiency of the newer gas engines and multi-speed transmissions. My 2017 V-6 Dodge Durango pulls my Scamp better and with more efficiency than my 2004 V-8 Dodge Dakota!
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Old 10-26-2017, 11:15 AM   #22
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At this point in my life I am retired and drive less than 10000 miles per year. About half of that is pulling a trailer. The only advantage of diesel to me might be in trip range. My current TV is a 4X4 Tacoma which will take me about 175 miles per tank, with a small margin. A vehicle that would go 400 miles before needing fuel would be nice.
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Old 10-26-2017, 12:00 PM   #23
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miles

Jack after about 3 hours I am wanting to stop anyway for a break. I don't know why but pulling a trailer is tiring to me.

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Old 10-26-2017, 12:30 PM   #24
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The Ram 1500 Eco diesel is a $4000 upgrade when compared to the standard gas engine. plus there is an upgrade charge for the heavier transmission due to the diesel's torque.
The cost of diesel fuel in my area is approx 10% higher then regular gasoline and diesel fuel was $1 a gallon higher 2 years back.
The maintenance costs are higher for the Ecodiesel then the gas engine.
The Ram Ecodiesel requires DEF fluid .
The MPG of the Ecodiesel and the standard engine are approx the same
The payload capacity for the Ram Ecodiesel is lower than my Ram V8 due to increased engine weight. In some instances the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel has a payload capacity under 1000 lbs.
Most trucks in my area rust out long before the engine wears out whether diesel or gas
If you run the numbers the diesel has a higher cost of ownership.
There are advantages to owning a diesel but cost savings is not one of them
There are members on this forum that are towing a fiberglass trailer with a 4 cylinder engine and still manage to get where they want to go.
The diesel is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist ! IMHO
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Old 10-26-2017, 01:49 PM   #25
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Old 10-26-2017, 03:06 PM   #26
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The diesel is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist ! IMHO
The diesel engine delivered the food you purchased at the grocery store that you will eat & enjoy tonight.

A diesel engine IS the solution to providing food on your plate this evening and most anything else you purchase at a store or online.

Now for the average Joe riding around is his/her pickup truck everyday it makes very little "Cent's" cost wise to own a diesel powered pickup truck since very few folks use or have the need a diesel engine equipped pickup truck provides

For those of that DO have a need and tow heavy loads frequently we would not have our pickups/trucks any other way than with a diesel engine!
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:18 PM   #27
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That's out of context. We're not talking about the 18-wheeler that delivered the heavy load to the store. We're talking about towing little lightweight fiberglass trailers. If you like a diesel, get one, but don't pretend they're any better suited for towing a small trailer than a gas engine, because they're not. I'll put my F150's little 2.7L EcoBoost up against an EcoDiesel for towing any day.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:21 PM   #28
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Electric cars?? Shake your head! Electricity has to be MADE.
What you get from a wind mill wouldn't get you across the street.
Solar created electricity, it's not going to power anything more than 2 marker lights in a vehicle.
Nuclear ..and the spent rods get stored in whose backyard..

Don't talk to me about electric cars...it's marketing and the appearance of planet saving..and on and on and on.....lol
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:34 PM   #29
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steve,

It's not hard to argue against a diesel if all you want to do is to a 13' Scamp. it's not hard to argue that diesels can cost more to operate under some circumstances. But you can't deny that people love them and are willing to pay the extra. Why? Because there is a lot more to the equation than simply saving on the initial purchase. As soon as you begin to pull harder, the advantages become very evident.

I'd like to see some evidence that towing with a gas Ram vs an Ecodiesel Ram produces the same mileage. It doesn't. The only engine that will come close, in a Ram, under very light towing, is the Pentastar. Towing with a Pentastar is not a good idea. Towing with a Hemi will produce about half the mileage as with a diesel. This may not add up to overall savings when you factor in the purchase price, but the diesel makes every trip better. Better with longer range, better mileage, an engine brake and better diesel torque for pulling. That is where the value is for diesel fans.

It doesn't matter to me what people want to drive or tow with, but the next time you pull a reasonable sized trailer over the Sierras, or the Siskiyous, with a 4 cylinder gas engine and the small brakes that that vehicle is equipped with, and the lack of an engine brake, you should let us know how it went. I say this while acknowledging that a Celica is capable of delivering a 13' Cassita to a campsite. But following up on your list, it's hard to imagine how a light duty vehicle is bad because it has under 1000 lb payload capacity, but good because it has a 4 cylinder engine that is used for towing.

Bottom line is: Some of us love diesels and appreciate their character. Others just want to crunch the numbers. Some pull heavier things than others. Some live in the mountains, etc, etc,. YMMV.
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:40 PM   #30
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That's out of context.
Out of Context?

How could that be?

I said diesel engine.

You said diesel pickup.

As I stated in an earlier post I agree with you about most folks buying a pickup for light duty towing/hauling NOT needing a diesel engine.

I am no different than any news reporter, private citizen or member of this board posting their "Opinion" & wanting to "Spin" that "Opinion" to match the reality & facts as "I" interpret them!
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Old 10-26-2017, 04:55 PM   #31
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If EVERYONE on this site were not so "effluent" as to be able to own a fossil fueled hybrid, SUV, pickup or a car and heaven forbid a luxury "trailer" you pull behind your pollution generating machine in your spare time with nothing in mind other than rest and relaxation for yourself we would not have all these problems of where O where am "I" going to get all this energy to fuel MY life!

Well, yeah, but........ I guess I'd better just move into a cave and get rid of all my things. Now all you have to do is convince everyone else on the planet and we're all set.

I also am appalled at the outrageous over use of fuels. We seem to be trying to burn up all the oil as soon as possible and the party is ongoing! Boats, planes, huge houses and fast cars, etc.

My partial solution was to move out to my place in the country, heat my house and water with the sun, check out of the rat race and enjoy where I am instead of constantly searching for a place to vacation. But I still take my trailer on trips. And I have to believe it impacts the world less than hopping onto a jet for weekends in tinseltown, staying in hotels and fighting traffic every day. I don't have air conditioning or a swimming pool either. I guess I could ride on an oxen for my vacation trips. Well, no thanks.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:06 PM   #32
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Out of Context?


I am no different than any news reporter, private citizen or member of this board posting their "Opinion" & wanting to "Spin" that "Opinion" to match the reality & facts as "I" interpret them!
Spin? Huh?

I have to be honest in responding that: "I only exaggerate enough to compensate for being taken with a grain of salt". In other words, I only exaggerate in the interest of truth!
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:11 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
Out of Context?

How could that be?

I said diesel engine.
Perhaps I misread, but your post was in response to Steve's comment. He's not saying a diesel is never necessary (at least I think he isn't) but that it's not necessary to tow a lightweight trailer. Since the thread is about a possible Ford 1/2 ton diesel, we're debating the merits of that - not the semi that hauls heavy goods.

I can see a place for a diesel 1/2 ton, provided you tend to hang on to the vehicle for a long time, are willing to pay the hefty premium for the engine, and deal with the higher fuel cost.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:38 PM   #34
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I'd like to see some evidence that towing with a gas Ram vs an Ecodiesel Ram produces the same mileage. It doesn't. The only engine that will come close, in a Ram, under very light towing, is the Pentastar. Towing with a Pentastar is not a good idea.
I agree that towing a large heavy trailer with a Pentastar V6 is probably not a good idea, but I would like to add that I'm really happy with our Pentastar engine for towing our little 2900 lb Scamp. In the Durango, the V6 can tow up to 6200 lbs (even more in a properly geared Ram). Surprisingly, from what I've read, "The Pentastar V-6 engine has a broad, flat torque curve with 90% of peak torque available between 1800 and 6350 rpm." Having all that torque start at low RPM's allows the Pentastar to shift less frequently than my V-8 Dakota, and when it does shift, the RPM change is not as drastic with the 8 speed transmission.
Perhaps when Ford puts a diesel in the new Ranger I may be looking to trade in my trusty but thirsty Dakota! I do like pickups for storage better than SUVs.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:54 PM   #35
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Radar,
I'm glad to hear the Pentastar is working out so well. They are exyremely light engines. I have one in my Rubicon and it seems to always be straining, but I live at 5,000 ft.
I've also had no trouble with it and the Jeep gets good mileage. Hows your towing mileage?
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Old 10-26-2017, 06:03 PM   #36
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Perhaps I misread, but your post was in response to Steve's comment. He's not saying a diesel is never necessary (at least I think he isn't) but that it's not necessary to tow a lightweight trailer. Since the thread is about a possible Ford 1/2 ton diesel, we're debating the merits of that - not the semi that hauls heavy goods.

I can see a place for a diesel 1/2 ton, provided you tend to hang on to the vehicle for a long time, are willing to pay the hefty premium for the engine, and deal with the higher fuel cost.
rbryan you are correct !!. I was referring to a 1/2 ton Ford diesel truck towing a fiberglass trailer which is the title of this thread.
Naturally someone will take the subject matter to the absurd to try and prove some inane point.
There is a need / place for diesel trucks in certain applications .
Towing a fiberglass trailer is not one of them.

IMHO and as I have stated on many occasions , the Ford F150
Eco Boost is a great truck and probably the best tow vehicle on the road.
If I believe some of the posts in this thread , I should stay home because my Hemi V8 is incapable of towing my 3300 lb trailer.
God help me if I try to cross the Rockies , I may be trapped on the side of a mountain for the rest of my life.
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Old 10-26-2017, 07:16 PM   #37
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Radar,
I'm glad to hear the Pentastar is working out so well. They are exyremely light engines. I have one in my Rubicon and it seems to always be straining, but I live at 5,000 ft.
I've also had no trouble with it and the Jeep gets good mileage. Hows your towing mileage?
My Durango is a little more aerodynamic than your Rubicon.
Where my 4.7 Dakota gets an average 14-15 MPG on long trips pulling our loaded Scamp, my 3.6 Durango has been getting 17-18. My worst mileage in the Durango with headwinds doesn't seem so bad when I realize it's better than my best in the Dakota with tailwinds!
Where it really shines is in solo driving where I get in the upper 20's vs 19-20.
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Old 10-27-2017, 06:04 AM   #38
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question

How would the 3.6 penstar engine (300hp) stack up against the eco diesel Ram or the ecoboost Ford ? For mpg and longevity?How aboput towing in the mountains?
My friend has a Ram with the 3.6 engine gets about 24-25 mpg hwy and 18-20 city and it will tow my Escape 21 (4000lb )
We have a Toyota Sequoia with the 4.7 v-8 (287hp) the new v-6's have more hp and same torque and are lighter. we are looking at options maybe the Durango with 3.6 ? Thanks for the responses .BTW I saw the new Ford Ranger in Germany last month and it looks real nice with a 3.2 litre diesel eng .I think that will take a lot of sales away from the F-150 It's about the same size as the old Dodge Dakota's
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:08 AM   #39
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How would the 3.6 penstar engine (300hp) stack up against the eco diesel Ram or the ecoboost Ford ? For mpg and longevity?How aboput towing in the mountains?
My friend has a Ram with the 3.6 engine gets about 24-25 mpg hwy and 18-20 city and it will tow my Escape 21 (4000lb )
We have a Toyota Sequoia with the 4.7 v-8 (287hp) the new v-6's have more hp and same torque and are lighter. we are looking at options maybe the Durango with 3.6 ? Thanks for the responses .BTW I saw the new Ford Ranger in Germany last month and it looks real nice with a 3.2 litre diesel eng .I think that will take a lot of sales away from the F-150 It's about the same size as the old Dodge Dakota's
I love my son's Dodge Dakota , it's just big enough to still be uncomfortable!
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:11 AM   #40
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interesting debate

I have been down the diesel route several times still in the game I used the vw beetle tdi for several years on my sales route. it is dependable, fun to drive but expensive to maintain. You don't take these to you favorite small time mechanic! You know 50bux an hour vs 150bux an hour, lots of expensive preventive maintance! I started out with a 1984 Pontiac diesel by the way.

Then diesel went over the roof although the Beetle will get over 50mpg at times it still is a maintance hog! At first I think I cleaned up against my allowed fuel expense but later I lost! At over 50k miles a year I tried everything to reduce my road costs!!

Saying this isn't everyone entitled to his or her opinion here? I just don't get the hateful comments against people who have different ideas about things but they might be more right than you!

Disagree is fine some I read here some I don't because of these things.

bob

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