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Old 10-27-2017, 07:43 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by jennykatz View Post
How would the 3.6 penstar engine (300hp) stack up against the eco diesel Ram or the ecoboost Ford ? For mpg and longevity?How aboput towing in the mountains?
I guess only time will tell, but the Pentastar is the simplest engine of the three. It was specifically designed to be as light as possible, is not turbocharged, does not have direct injection, easiest to recycle, produce minimum pollutants, warm up very quickly, etc. It performs very well, but we'll see how it does while working hard. The heads have been a problem and had to be redesigned in 2013. Then a lot of other changes were made in 2015. They have fought casting porosity all along and were adding a stop leak to all new engines which makes rebuilding them possibly troublesome.

The Ecoboost has two turbos and direct injection, so it has the potential to get the most horsepower from it's displacement and be more expensive to fix or maintain than the Pentastar. They were improved in 2017 and seem very efficient and powerful with excellent low end torque and sporty performance.

The Ram VM Motori Ecodiesel is an excellent engine. It gets the best mileage of any full sized pickup and has that lovely diesel torque. But it is expensive to buy and has a very complicated emissions system. Some folks like diesels and some don't. I think the Eco also has an engine brake and this is a very nice feature for towing.

I'm currently towing with a Cummins and am not going to buy another truck for a long time, but if I was and wanted a half ton, I'd be looking at the Ford if they prove to be reliable. That is a big if as I don't really trust them. With any modern diesel, the complicated emissions system is a problem and the cost of the engines is high initially, so the Ram might not win my vote. Chevy has a sweet 5.3 liter V8 that is efficient, has direct injection, is well balanced and might be the best of all. I say well balanced because V8s are smoother running than V6s.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:30 AM   #42
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I have 5 trucks. They can all tow my trailer. Not only does my diesel do the best job but it also gets the best fuel mileage. The engine never labors even with two quads on the deck in the box. It isn't bothered by long, steep grades. High cross winds are no problem. After 40 years of towing with gas jobs I went diesel and I'm never going back.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:53 AM   #43
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Mike,
Same with me. The slow relaxed sound, effortless pulling grades, serious engine braking, good mileage, all add up to a relaxing trip. A full sized truck just seems to be planted on the road.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:16 PM   #44
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Agreed Raspy, it's all about the experience.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:23 PM   #45
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Every time I climb a long grade in my V6 Pilot pulling my 1700 pound Scamp, slowing from 65 mph to around 45 mph, I do wish for a diesel, or even a gas turbo.

Those towing grades account for less than 100 miles in a whole year's driving, or about 0.4% of 25K miles/year, including about 2K towing. Those 100 miles towing uphill equate to about 40 extra minutes on the road annually, a 0.1% increase in total annual driving time, assuming an average 50 mph for the whole year's driving.

Still, slogging along at 45 mph (in line with the diesel semis, BTW) when passenger cars are zipping past at 70 mph... the idea of a small diesel sounds really good... until I recall the fuel pump went out in my friend's daughter's Beetle TDI, to the tune of around $3000 IIRC.

Someone said it's not about the math. They're right.
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:21 PM   #46
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tdi

jon my tdi started to leak my vw guy who is an expert said I needed a new one. I got on the net and found a gasket set for 20bux my regular mechanic put it in for me 60bux. he had to take it apart 2x due to it lost its prime I watched and learned!

guess I got lucky it has 200k on it by the way!

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Old 10-27-2017, 05:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
Every time I climb a long grade in my V6 Pilot pulling my 1700 pound Scamp, slowing from 65 mph to around 45 mph, I do wish for a diesel, or even a gas turbo.

Those towing grades account for less than 100 miles in a whole year's driving, or about 0.4% of 25K miles/year, including about 2K towing. Those 100 miles towing uphill equate to about 40 extra minutes on the road annually, a 0.1% increase in total annual driving time, assuming an average 50 mph for the whole year's driving.

Still, slogging along at 45 mph (in line with the diesel semis, BTW) when passenger cars are zipping past at 70 mph... the idea of a small diesel sounds really good... until I recall the fuel pump went out in my friend's daughter's Beetle TDI, to the tune of around $3000 IIRC.

Someone said it's not about the math. They're right.
WOW I have pulled my Scamp13D up long grades all over the country with my2.3L Escape and never lost anything close to 20MPH.
Breaking old stereotypes can be hard...
I remember a friend who had a diesel Rabbit pickup, It stunk both literally and figuratively and would take a day to pull the hat off your head. (It was kinda cool though).
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:27 PM   #48
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We don't have any hills on the East coast to match those on the West coast, but our V6 Durango pulled our 2900 lb Scamp up this 7% 7 mile hill on I-77 without a sweat. I had to slow down once when the trucker ahead of me in the middle lane dropped to 40 MPH, but as soon as there was a gap I was back up to 62 (my normal cruising speed) and zipped past him. I think the trucker that made must have been empty!
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:06 AM   #49
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WOW I have pulled my Scamp13D up long grades all over the country with my2.3L Escape and never lost anything close to 20MPH...
It's not uncommon to have 35+ mph headwinds while climbing long grades. I used 45 mph as a worst-case scenario to illustrate how insignificant a slow hill climb really is in the big picture.

I'm sure I could push my vehicle a little harder, but then I would be going faster than the trucks in the right lane but slower than the passenger vehicles in the left, meaning I'd be weaving in and out and getting in everyone's way. I've seen way too many diesel-powered, toy hauler-toting, weekend warriors doing exactly that to want any part of it. I choose to slow down and blend in with the trucks.

My point was that, while I chafe a little at the slow pace for those few miles, the actual increase in travel time is minimal.
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:17 AM   #50
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agree

I am not to hurt anyones feelings here but when camping I don't feel the need for speed or the need to keep up with the big boys especially pulling a camper.

I also do not like pushing my tug to its limits every car I have has a tac on it I watch it and don't try to see how far I can push my rpms I expect my vehicles to last a long time. 2002 cad with 150k on it 2005 with 69k on that one!

My neighbor is into this he once traded a real nice Chevy p/u for the lastest and greatest diesel with the big Allison transmission for the very reason he didn't want to shift going up a hill!

As Jon says in the long scheme of things its not that much time lost!

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Old 10-28-2017, 08:23 AM   #51
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It always blows my mind how so many trailer campers worry about fuel mileage to the extent of buying engines to small for the load. Diesel or gas. Give me an engine with power and torque. I would rather get a couple or three mph less than put up with the constant straining over hills. Having said that, I have some friends who have a Ram 1/2 ton diesel . They are very happy with it. They make frequent trips from NC to Montana and get mph in the high twenties at high speeds. To each his own. Ford will sell some diesels.
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:32 AM   #52
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sales

It has been my experience in the retail and sales business there is only so much pie to be had. Start a new sales thing it takes away from the other. Every watch the restaurant and grocery business open a new on another old one will close!

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Old 10-28-2017, 08:39 AM   #53
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Having had some experience driving very heavy trucks back in the '60s, when they were not power houses, I got over over having extreme stress when my vehicle wouldn't hold 40 mph going up a long steep grade. (I did worry some about missing a gear) I was in some situations when I was down to 6 mph in "compound". Put your transmission in a lower gear or let the automatic transmission work and let the engine do its job. Do not race an engine at the highest RPMs and do not floorboard (give it maximum throttle for extended periods of time). Get in a low enough gear so that the engine can work at 2/3rds to 3/4th throttle. In the mountains or at high altitude where the air is so thin that it does not cool the radiator effectively, watch the temperature gauge because it will climb. Let up on the engine a little if it starts to get too high. No need for stress or anxiety. You will be ok, enjoy the drive. Tailgaters can pass you if they have the balls and the horsepower.
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:47 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
It's not uncommon to have 35+ mph headwinds while climbing long grades. I used 45 mph as a worst-case scenario to illustrate how insignificant a slow hill climb really is in the big picture.

I'm sure I could push my vehicle a little harder, but then I would be going faster than the trucks in the right lane but slower than the passenger vehicles in the left, meaning I'd be weaving in and out and getting in everyone's way. I've seen way too many diesel-powered, toy hauler-toting, weekend warriors doing exactly that to want any part of it. I choose to slow down and blend in with the trucks.

My point was that, while I chafe a little at the slow pace for those few miles, the actual increase in travel time is minimal.
That is a solid point, especially since you must drive your TV when not towing which is most of the miles.
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Old 10-28-2017, 08:55 AM   #55
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If EVERYONE on this site were not so "effluent" ....
This gave me a chuckle. The definition of "effluent" is "something that flows out or flows forth." In the case of this site, the effluent would be our comments!

I realize that the word you were looking for was "affluent," meaing "generously supplied with money or property."

Yes, I am quite "fluent," "able to express oneself readily or effortlessly."

On the subject of a diesel F150, I welcome Ford's effort to the marketplace and I wish them well. Personally, the diesel thing has come and gone for me. I once would have jumped at the chance to have a diesel. But that was before they gussied them up with a ton of emission controls, which for me (JMO) has taken away all the advantages of the diesel. Especially with the nice gas turbos that have come out lately. Not that I can afford any of 'em brand new right now... wow, the sticker shock!
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:02 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by charlsara View Post
It always blows my mind how so many trailer campers worry about fuel mileage to the extent of buying engines to small for the load. Diesel or gas. Give me an engine with power and torque. I would rather get a couple or three mph less than put up with the constant straining over hills. Having said that, I have some friends who have a Ram 1/2 ton diesel . They are very happy with it. They make frequent trips from NC to Montana and get mph in the high twenties at high speeds. To each his own. Ford will sell some diesels.
So the answer is to buy a small enough trailer to fit a TV which is tolerable to drive... Thus the Scamp13 or its ilk.
Its not always about mileage.
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:15 AM   #57
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bruce h

in my 40f bussing day I had to learn the double clutch thing not a good experience going downhill and you need to drop down a gear to hold your speed down. Air brakes yes but you don't want to abuse them either.

At 26,000lb I felt I had a responsibility to not run over anyone first of all this included my own health. I did learn turtle mode knowing I was going to get there and it wasn't long before I got to the top.

Now going down the mountain was nothing to be trifled with use the same gear going down as you used up. Maybe upshift a little but not much just too scarey for a rookie.

I have just never been annoyed by anyone either passing me or wanting to pass.

One strange thing that Eagle bus 8v71 would get 10 to 11mpg but I never topped 55 with it! When you could get 140gal in it sort of taught you a few things about money right then.

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Old 10-28-2017, 10:24 AM   #58
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I have had a diesel 3/4 or 1 ton pickup for 25 years until earlier this year. I tow trailers all the time for work, though now am moving towards retiring. Nothing beats a diesel for towing capabilities for a given sized vehicle, taking into account factors like fuel savings, engine longevity and resale value.

Unless you have towed a lot with both diesel and gas engines, you can't really appreciate the difference. Even heavy loads feel effortless with a diesel engine.

Right now gas and diesel prices are at par (at least around here), and a diesel powered vehicle with the same towing capacities as a gas engine will get better fuel economy. But as mentioned the cost economies don't end there. The engines last a lot longer too. As well, there is no comparison with resale costs, at least around here, a used diesel powered truck will sell for way more than a gas powered one, usually at least the difference of the initial purchase price.

If I was looking at a new tow vehicle, and Ford was putting a competent diesel in their F150, I would be most definitely looking into it. If I had a bumper pull trailer, I would be all over the new Ranger with it's diesel offering, but it would seem the bed is too short, and possibly the cargo capacity too low for my Escape 5.0TA fifth wheel.

Exhaust emissions have come a long way now with diesel engines. Another consideration with environmental emissions, is the the energy required to produce more gas engines given their shorter life span, which would be quite significant.

My 3.5L EcoBoost tows my trailer fine, and I have had zero issue with it, but I do worry about the longevity of the engine all the time, and have heard a few horror stories with problems with them, but I do realize these are not all that common.
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