Ford 1/2 ton diesel

[Bruce H]

I just saw an ad that said Ford is going to offer a diesel engine in its F-150 trucks starting in mid 2018. It will be interesting to see how the other truck makers react.

[Jack L]

I believe Ford is following something Chrysler (Ram) did several years ago.

[CharleyT]

Well, it’s about Time Ford offered a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck. Should be a game changer for the industry.

Charley

[steve dunham]

It seems strange that while Europe is trying to rid itself of diesel
vehicles , the US is headed in the opposite direction
Small diesel vehicles are not the answer to our transportation or air quality proplems. IMHO. I find no joy in Ford's decision

[CharleyT]

Steve,
Unless I’m mis-informed, the way I Understand modern “clean diesel” technology, the effect on the environment is reduced somewhat.
Until we are using hydrogen, solar, perpetual motion, or some other clean technology, it seems we will all be using some sort of Dino fuel for a while.

Charley

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by CharleyT

Steve,
Unless I’m mis-informed, the way I Understand modern “clean diesel” technology, the effect on the environment should be minimal.
Until we are using hydrogen, solar, perpetual motion, or some other clean technology, it seems we will all be using some sort of Dino fuel for a while.

Charley

Clean diesel is kind of like clean coal IMHO ! . The burning of fossil fuels , no matter how technology advanced or clean still affects the environment . I don't see where Ford's diesel is anything more than a ploy to increase sales and possibly profits.
We can learn from Europe's mistakes but as in all thing the US has to learn everything the hard way.
Considering how efficient ,clean and powerful Ford's Eco Boost engine is , I don't see any gain with diesel but it's a free market.

[CharleyT]

Point well taken Steve, makes sense. thank you for your input on the subject. The environment is very important to me.

Charley

[apfixer]

The point to remember when plugging in your "what ever" the power to operate it has to come from somewhere. People in New England rant about the powerplants in the mid-west using coal. People on the New England coast rant about the plan to build wind farms off the coast that will "ruin" their view.

The 'infrastruture' that will be needed to fully replace the "fossil fueled" gas or diesel vehicles will knock your socks off. Think how many "gas or diesel" fuel stations there are today. Now let's tear them down and replace them with charging stations for electric or Hydrogen re-fueling stations. Just where are you going to get the "electricity" to do this with. New electric transmission lines will need to be built, and new electric generation facilities will need to be built. If your thinking of wind farms have you ever spent some time "near" a wind farm for awhile. In Texas they have realized that the wind farms prevent the air from cooling off at night and the ambient air temperature at night has gone up. And, the constant whoose, whoose, whoose of the blades is a whole new noise to have in your day, all day and all night.

Before we jump off the planet, let's set back and think of what's known in the manufacturing world as "womb to tomb" cost. What are the financial and physical cost of this "project" What will it cost to build, maintain, repair, and at the end teardown and replace.

Chew on that for awhile.

[Alf S.]

Originally Posted by apfixer

The point to remember when plugging in your "what ever" the power to operate it has to come from somewhere. People in New England rant about the powerplants in the mid-west using coal. People on the New England coast rant about the plan to build wind farms off the coast that will "ruin" their view.

The 'infrastruture' that will be needed to fully replace the "fossil fueled" gas or diesel vehicles will knock your socks off. Think how many "gas or diesel" fuel stations there are today. Now let's tear them down and replace them with charging stations for electric or Hydrogen re-fueling stations. Just where are you going to get the "electricity" to do this with. New electric transmission lines will need to be built, and new electric generation facilities will need to be built. If your thinking of wind farms have you ever spent some time "near" a wind farm for awhile. In Texas they have realized that the wind farms prevent the air from cooling off at night and the ambient air temperature at night has gone up. And, the constant whoose, whoose, whoose of the blades is a whole new noise to have in your day, all day and all night.

Before we jump off the planet, let's set back and think of what's known in the manufacturing world as "womb to tomb" cost. What are the financial and physical cost of this "project" What will it cost to build, maintain, repair, and at the end teardown and replace.

Chew on that for awhile.

Hi: apfixer... Some folks wouldn't be happy with a 1/2 ton truck powered by "Hot air". We all know where a source of fuel for them is!!!
I'll be ready for a diesel powered 1/2 ton soon... an I'm looking at 'em all.
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[Alex Adams]

As long as we do "womb to tomb" for "legacy" power sources as well. For instance, we still have a coal-fired plant here in my New England state that has been "cleaned" up. What nobody accounts for in the cleanliness or cost of running the plant is all the coal ash produced that is currently stored onsite. Sooner or later that will all have to be cleaned up and disposed of properly which will cost money since it is highly toxic.

As the laymen's version of the laws of Thermodynamics states: "There is no such thing as a free lunch". Whether you use windmills or coal or even solar panels, there is some use of energy and since nothing is 100% efficient there is some form of waste. Just using energy produces waste heat that can change the climate. The answer is that you look at the benefits versus all of the costs and make a decision. Unfortunately since a lot of costs get hidden, especially for fossil fuels, it is harder to make the appropriate decision.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Clean diesel is kind of like clean coal IMHO ! . The burning of fossil fuels , no matter how technology advanced or clean still affects the environment . I don't see where Ford's diesel is anything more than a ploy to increase sales and possibly profits.
We can learn from Europe's mistakes but as in all thing the US has to learn everything the hard way.
Considering how efficient ,clean and powerful Ford's Eco Boost engine is , I don't see any gain with diesel but it's a free market.

It is certainly not a ploy, every sane company is established to increase sales and hopefully profits! thus "caveat emptor"
The trick to longevity in a free market is of course is to offer a satisfactory product at a reasonable price.

Every energy source effects the environment, A 1.5MW industrial wind turbine can extract 3.6 million kilowatts of energy per year from the wind. We now have 20,000 active land based units of this type in the US alone and we are installing more by the month.
Still the net contribution to the grid is only 5% of the actual power extracted. Presently the overall contribution to the power grid of all wind turbines in service worldwide is statistically zero.
The impact on the weather of enough wind turbines to make a significant contribution to the grid has not yet been determined.
One diesel truck or one wind turbine has no measurable impact on the environment, but millions of anything will.

[rbryan]

The F150 is the best selling 1/2 ton truck and has been for many decades - with no diesel offering. I have to agree with Steve. The EcoBoost does a superb job with plenty of torque and pulling power. If they do offer a diesel, I wish them well, but I've no interest.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by floyd

It is certainly not a ploy, every sane company is established to increase sales and hopefully profits! thus "caveat emptor"
The trick to longevity in a free market is of course is to offer a satisfactory product at a reasonable price.

Every energy source effects the environment, A 1.5MW industrial wind turbine can extract 3.6 million kilowatts of energy per year from the wind. We now have 20,000 active land based units of this type in the US alone and we are installing more by the month.
Still the net contribution to the grid is only 5% of the actual power extracted. Presently the overall contribution to the power grid of all wind turbines in service worldwide is statistically zero.
The impact on the weather of enough wind turbines to make a significant contribution to the grid has not yet been determined.
One diesel truck or one wind turbine has no measurable impact on the environment, but millions of anything will.

According to Scientific America 23% of the electrical power generated in Texas is from wind power.
There are 3 coal fired power plants in Texas scheduled to be shut down by the end of 2018.

The shift to renewable energy is here and growing
I see a day that most commuter vehicles will be powered by electricity or fuel cells .
The present Ford F150 with an Ecoboost engine is more than capable of towing a fiberglass trailer , a diesel engine engine is not required nor is it environmentally justified.

[k0wtz]

Well lets plug in a million el. cars but no new power plants of any sorts lets see what happens.

There is no free lunch! Period!!

bob

[EricAllyn]

Part of the issue for Ford may be the MPG of the diesel engine. I don't have one, but a friend of mine who tows a boat went diesel for the mileage and engine longevity.

[Jon in AZ]

If you're towing one of the heavier molded trailers, if you tow a lot of miles annually (meaning actual miles with trailer attached), if you keep your vehicle many years, if the light diesel drivetrain.proves to be reliable and durable, if resale value parallels heavy duty diesels...

That's a lot of ifs.

[floyd]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

According to Scientific America 23% of the electrical power generated in Texas is from wind power.
There are 3 coal fired power plants in Texas scheduled to be shut down by the end of 2018.

The shift to renewable energy is here and growing
I see a day that most commuter vehicles will be powered by electricity or fuel cells .
The present Ford F150 with an Ecoboost engine is more than capable of towing a fiberglass trailer , a diesel engine engine is not required nor is it environmentally justified.

I spent a lot of my life around diesel engines and it took years to loose the smell imbedded in my nostrils.

Mileage or not I don't really like small diesels for cars or light trucks, and Ecoboost makes diesels even less useful for me. The performance of car diesels is boring on its best day.

Who knows what may develop though, I've seen a few things lately which have made amazing strides, some have gone from really bad to really impressive!

What with Amazon, UPS, Skype, and smart phones maybe we soon may not be leaving the house from cradle to grave.
Ahh the virtual sounds of long dead species and the artificial smell of extinct forests as we relax anywhere in the world on our virtual vacations.
Congers up visions of "Matrix" or "Silent Running" as we cower in our self imposed prisons and contemplate the wrath of gaia and adad!

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

I don't see where Ford's diesel is anything more than a ploy to increase sales and possibly profits.

You've just discovered the reason EVERY manufacturer produces any and all of their vehicles, to increase sales and profits. Since that's the case with every vehicle, it doesn't have special meaning for a new diesel entry. It's just a different model.

There is a market for smaller diesels because they get good mileage and have good low end torque, which means they tow well. The fuel is also safer. But the bottom line is: Ford believes there is a market for them as Ram has already proven. Ford is behind the curve on this one.

When that new model is put up head-to-head with an Ecoboost, while towing, we'll have a good chance to see which one seems best. The Ecoboost maximizes current technology with gasoline, but it's still limited in it's efficiency.

Ford has a habit of putting things on the market before they are proven and they've paid dearly for that philosophy, so it may take a while to see the true potential of their design. Meanwhile, they'll sell like hotcakes if the additional cost is kept to a minimum.

Either way, current diesel technology has overly complicated emissions equipment and it really hurts them. We need a significant breakthrough in design and I'm looking a Mazda as possibly coming up with it.

None of this has anything to do with alternative fuels, which aren't ready for prime time. It's all about improvements in gas and diesel engines.

[vintageracer]

If EVERYONE on this site were not so "effluent" as to be able to own a fossil fueled hybrid, SUV, pickup or a car and heaven forbid a luxury "trailer" you pull behind your pollution generating machine in your spare time with nothing in mind other than rest and relaxation for yourself we would not have all these problems of where O where am "I" going to get all this energy to fuel MY life!

[Mike_L]

You can say what you want to about diesel trucks. When it comes to towing, nothing beats them! When is the last time you saw a gasoline powered semi? I tow with a 3/4 ton Ford diesel. My brother tows a similar trailer with a 3/4 ton 400 cid Chevy HD. When we get into the long, steep hills his truck can't touch my power or fuel economy. Diesel engines are serious power and they will always outlast a gasoline engine. All the dino fuels produce air pollution. Maybe some day we will have an alternative but we aren't there yet.