Ford Lightning disappointing update

[parmm]

Originally Posted by John Nazarnko

g.
You may pay a bit more up front for an electric car than a gas car but your monthly costs are far far less.

But be sure to hang on to your wallet when that battery dies!

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by parmm

But be sure to hang on to your wallet when that battery dies!

Excellent point. Would probably be a safe practice to trade when you hit 300,000 miles.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

Excellent point. Would probably be a safe practice to trade when you hit 300,000 miles.

Except that there is not a lot of demand for an EV that will need a battery soon and that relies on "old" technology.

[Civilguy]

Who knows, maybe the charge time will be reduced. Or, perhaps the pace of travel will change.

Things will continue to evolve and progress due to the dreams and efforts of innovators even as the naysayers sing their eternal songs.

Roadside attraction anyone?

https://www.walldrug.com/about-us

[Raspy]

Mike,

Thanks for that great Wall Drug link. I remember my father talking about the Wall Drug signs on the highway. I didn't know the story behind them.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by Alex in LA

...Thirdly, fully charging from a "regular" outlet will take 3 days! So, forget about "filling up" at the campground if you happen to have an outlet. You will need to go to a charging station (again assumption that there will be a proliferation of such in near future).

RV campsites have 30A (120V) and many have 50A (240V) outlets The 30A outlet will charge twice as fast as a household 15A outlet, and if you have an adapter for the 50A outlet, you should get at least 4X the charge rate of the household 120V 15A. I would expect anyone going to RV parks with an electric vehicle to have both sorts of charging cables.

With current lithium ion electric car batteries, the first 80% takes the same amount of time as the last 20%, so if you can get by with just charging to 80%, then it will take half as long... and thats if your vehicle is actually at 0%, odds are its got at least 10-20% remaining.

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Except that there is not a lot of demand for an EV that will need a battery soon and that relies on "old" technology.

Ooops....

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

Excellent point. Would probably be a safe practice to trade when you hit 300,000 miles.

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Except that there is not a lot of demand for an EV that will need a battery soon and that relies on "old" technology.

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Who knows, maybe the charge time will be reduced. Or, perhaps the pace of travel will change. Things will continue to evolve and progress due to the dreams and efforts of innovators even as the naysayers sing their eternal songs.

Part of me wonders if the traditional model of "buying a car" will go away- lots of folks hate it anyway. What if it were replaced with leasing and subscription services based on miles and/or time? You'll be able to choose "new" or "refurbished," and the finances will work a lot more like your smartphone, with a straw into your wallet forever...

Maybe I'll buy a donkey and cart. By the time all this becomes a reality, that pace of travel may suit me just fine.

[Bruce H]

Originally Posted by jerrybob

When you buy an electric car or truck.....can you pay cash or do you have to "charge" it??????

Both

[Sunrisetrucker]

Originally Posted by Civilguy

Things will continue to evolve and progress due to the dreams and efforts of innovators even as the naysayers sing their eternal songs.

There are those that see the current reality of things and then there are the naysayers. Don't confuse the two.

[RogerDat]

Originally Posted by parmm

But be sure to hang on to your wallet when that battery dies!

I'm not sure of that. Brother in law has a Ford Edge hybrid that can run on electric, mix, or gas only. Long trips he goes to gas only on the expressway. Then back to electric or mix in town. Not towing but my sisters luggage qualifies as a load :-)

He has a guaranteed price for his battery replacement from the dealer. It is a few thousand dollars but was less than I expected. I seem to recall something like $3k but am not 100% sure of the exact price.

For compare I was given a quote of $900 for throttle body and sensor replacement for a Kia Soul. The dealer was full of it. But still the job and part should be around $400 or $500. For my Ford Escape a replacement ECM (brain) runs around $400 and can fail from over worn sparkplugs back flowing the current which fries the ECM. So that job would be 6 coils, top portion of engine removed to access rear ones, plus the plugs. Keys and sensors reprogrammed. Price of under $2k would be a decent deal in much of the country. Don't want to talk about how I know this.

He drives mostly around town doing errands and is getting well really great mpg since it is almost always on electric. Vehicle charges overnight in his garage. May have added a 220 line to charge faster.

Fuel has a specific strength ability to move 2 tons a mile up a hill on the amount of fuel that fits in a coffee cup. Electric has cheaper cost per mile by a significant amount. Making it a case of right tool for the job. Towing a fuel may well be the desired energy source. Hydrogen, Propane, Gas or Diesel. Commuting and running errands an electric or plug in hybrid my be just the ticket.

Prices right now are a mess. Local lots are almost empty. The college has lots being rented by auto makers to store vehicles completed but waiting on a chip. Supply low, demand high. You know how that goes and yep prices are up, and will remain there until the supply meets the damand.

Look up Fe batteries. Huge and heavy but for storing solar and wind for later use neither weight or size matters. Lower cost does. Ability to store a large amount for less money than a rare earth battery, as well as tolerate daily cycles is what matters. Starting to do pilot projects. Side trail but interesting

[RogerDat]

If one gets the low draw starting set up a single 2k watt Honda can power the AC one is starting to see propane powered generators, don't know if the quite little ones are dual fuel yet but I know my friend bought a whole house one that uses gasoline or propane.

I would think a 30# bottle of propane, or pair of them on the trailer would provide the required power to supplement solar or run heavy draw appliances some of the time. Propane is a lot less messy than liquid fuel such as gasoline to haul around.

Without the soft start kits it takes a bit more than what a 2k watt generator can provide to start the rooftop AC unit. Have to pair two of them. That mod to the starting capacitor can be a bit spendy but so is a second generator or one big enough that is still not too loud to leave on for a while.

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by RogerDat

I'm not sure of that. Brother in law has a Ford Edge hybrid that can run on electric, mix, or gas only. Long trips he goes to gas only on the expressway. Then back to electric or mix in town. Not towing but my sisters luggage qualifies as a load :-)

comparing steaks vs bread here....

Hybrid batteries, including plugin hybrids, tend to be much smaller, lower capacity than pure battery-electric vehicles, ESPECIALLY a truck like a Lightning.

a Tesla might have a 100KWH battery, give or take depending on model and option. the 2022 F150 Lightning can have a 100-130 KWH (rounded).

The 2021 Edge plugin hybrid ... Wait, there is no Edge hybrid, did you mean the Ford Escape plugin hybrid? That has a 14 KWH battery, 7-10 times smaller than the F150 Lightning.

A Prius has a 0.75-1.3 KWH battery, 100X smaller than the larger Lightning batt.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

The F150 Powerboost hybrid apparently has a 35KWH battery. So maybe a third the size of a full EV? Hard to see a downside though I haven't been impressed by the competence of my local Ford shops.

I stopped thinking about fords hybrid when I found out how small the battery is. I also like an 8-foot bed and a regular cab, and that is not available.

Here is a copy and paste from a random article on the internet.

The Ford F-150 PowerBoost hybrid’s Pro Power system uses the trucks existing hybrid technology, reducing the amount of redundant hardware and doubling down on the benefits of its onboard 1.5 kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery and 35-kilowatt motor/generator.

My ebike has more than a 2.0-kilowatt battery.

[ThomasC]

One Battle Born has 1.2 kilowatt hours in it. I have three in my BigFoot so I have more than twice the battery storage of an F-150 Hybrid.

Come on Ford wake up!!!

[CalgaryEscape]

Originally Posted by Alex in LA

My money is definitely not burning a hole, otherwise I wouldn't be outraged at the $20K premium for an extended battery.
I doubt that anyone would have known all this information without a trip to a dealer bc the online configurator just went up last week and it doesn't have all the details.
And speaking of money, have you seen the prices of trucks lately? Any kind of decent used truck is instantly over $30K, and new ones are comparable with what Lightning SHOULD have been if they didn't decide to gauge the battery price.
Ford actually had an interesting alternative in the form of a hybrid which will give you over 800 miles range! But to provide charge it has to be kept running which is obviously not an option if you want to have the heater on overnight.

Agree with all these comments. Towing is the Achilles heel in electric, with current battery technology. (Not to mention the c-c-c-c-cold up here in Canada. LOL) There are interesting efforts being made in hydrogen fuel cell propulsion, but the cost of production is still quite high and . . . where can you fuel up? (Answer: Almost nowhere). So we'll all be travelling in wheel chairs before that becomes a reality. For the time being, fossil fuels are the only viable way to tow a mid- to large-size trailer. You might be able to tow a lightweight camper with electric, but that's it.

[OldManIke]

This may help the EV tow vehicle situation in few years. Or at least mix it up significantly.
https://electrek.co/2022/01/10/airst...fBP0-27IsyJeFo

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

It may be hard to comprehend, but most people don't tow a trailer, and have no desire to do so.

True, but lots of people on Fiberglass RV reading this thread might have trailers and actually tow them.

[Rockytop]

This is a cautionary tale to those thinking of upgrading to a larger, heavier camper. Can you see what this will do to a family vacation? Can you see every Motel 6 with 100 pedestals in the parking lot. Can you see our national Parks with thousands of charging pedestals around their visitor centers and campgrounds? Can you visualize the environmental impact of running that much electric cable through parks and wetlands and sensitive eco systems? Do you know the upgrades that would have to be made to our power grid and our generating capacity? Unfortunately, it will be necessary, but don’t think our lives won’t be dramatic limited by it, and that you’ll enjoy the freedom of movement you have now. Consider the recent Interstate debacle caused by the recent snowstorm in the east-thousands of stranded cars. To clear the road of stalled cars would not be as easy as tow truck drivers handing everyone a gallon of gas to drive off. Electric vehicles should have more of a place in our everyday life’s—in fact, non-motorized transportation should be expanded, too— for commuting and errands, but we cannot simply replace all battery powered vehicles with electric vehicles and think we won’t feel a pinch.

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

RV campsites have 30A (120V) and many have 50A (240V) outlets

I wonder if the campground panel would have enough capacity to allow you to plug your 30 amp cable into the 30 amp outlet, and then plug a special adapter in to the 50 amp outlet to enable the full 240 volt EV charging?
Campgrounds might have to start planning for special EV sites with upgraded wiring and higher camping rates in the future.