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Old 02-23-2013, 09:02 AM   #41
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..........
The Coleman Power Saver rated at 1100 btu has good numbers as well.

Do you mean 1100 watts?
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:04 AM   #42
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Funny you mention this Tom, I was already looking at units to replace my basic charger in the Egg. Just a matter of cost at this point. I already spent some decent coin on solar so it's going to be a while for that upgrade.

Jason
What kind of charger does your Egg currently have?
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:39 PM   #43
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No the 11000 btu Power Saver has good numbers.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:34 PM   #44
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An interesting aside to the generator / air conditioner discussion is that some people are using a sophisticated inverter with the generator. The inverter is used to provide the surge load for start up, which is seconds, and the generator provides the power for running the AC (hours). This allows a much smaller generator to do the job, as you are not over sizing just for the surge load.
Really an inverter and battery with the generator - the RV's regular coach battery, which gets charged up again from the generator when it catches up.
Onan called this a "hybrid" system when the introduced it a few years ago, with something like a 12kW generator and 6kW inverter allowing 18kW at peak (a larger scale system for big motorhomes with multiple large air conditioners). It makes a lot of sense to me... although we would want a much smaller system.
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #45
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.......... although we would want a much smaller system.
The 3000 watt Yamaha generator as an example, uses its own starter battery to yield an additional 500 watts of surge power.

Also Victron has a product designed specifically to work with a Honda Inverter Generator @ $1600
http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/...paper%20GB.pdf
Victron MultiPlus Inverter Charger
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #46
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Excellent finds, Tom. I was a little surprised that the starting battery in a portable generator set is enough for this purpose, but I'm glad to see it is useful. Victron's approach is more like Onan's (but compatible with a portable generator), and seems to me to be better suited to trailer use.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:41 PM   #47
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Thanks guys for all the input. After reading all the pros and cons we decided on the Honda EU 2000i. Check out RV Parts, RV Accessories and Camper Supplies. They have some good prices on Honda generators. TomB
You may want to take a look here:
Honda EU2000i Super Quiet Generator (EU2000iA) WiseSales.com

Looks to be about $150 less and free freight. I will be purchasing a Honda EU2000i tomorrow, although at Sportsman's Warehouse locally for the same price.
As I don't have AC or a microwave in my newly acquired Scamp (...yet) it should work well for my electric razor!
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:44 AM   #48
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The 3000 watt Yamaha generator as an example, uses its own starter battery to yield an additional 500 watts of surge power.

Also Victron has a product designed specifically to work with a Honda Inverter Generator @ $1600
http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/...paper%20GB.pdf
Victron MultiPlus Inverter Charger
Funny, I typed a response but must have forgot to hit send. To answer your earlier question I believe my charger is a Progressive Dynamics. It is basically the same unit we have at work branded as a Midtronics 60A maintainer.

And the unit I want to replace it with looks like it does the same thing as the Victron. It is a charger/inverter by Xantrex, same brand as my solar controller.
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inv...edomSW2Gen.pdf

Jason

Oh, and forgot pricing. I found it on eBay a while back cheaper, here's what I found for current pricing. Starts around $1000
http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CFkQ8wIwAA
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:13 AM   #49
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Funny, I typed a response but must have forgot to hit send. To answer your earlier question I believe my charger is a Progressive Dynamics. It is basically the same unit we have at work branded as a Midtronics 60A maintainer.

And the unit I want to replace it with looks like it does the same thing as the Victron. It is a charger/inverter by Xantrex, same brand as my solar controller.
http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inv...edomSW2Gen.pdf

Jason
Thanks for posting this, Jason. It looks like this sells in the $950 range, a considerable savings over the Victron. It would be a nice alternative to a second coupled generator.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:35 PM   #50
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Thanks for posting this, Jason. It looks like this sells in the $950 range, a considerable savings over the Victron. It would be a nice alternative to a second coupled generator.
I was thinking of setting it up with enough batteries to run a/c for a while or microwave for breakfast. The inverter output is 2000 watts with 4000 surge watts. My a/c is rated under 900 watts (running I assume). Obviously it wouldn't run for hours, but if I can cool off the camper enough to get to sleep it would be great. When we travel, we stop at rest stops in route to our destination. I have used a generator for is purpose but always worry about it being stollen or getting busted by security.

It would be a different story if we dry camped somewhere. Then I can get the generator set up securely for the a/c use.

And I would likely have it set up so the generator supplements the inverter/battery instead of the other way around. There is a module (optional?) that can start a generator when battery or shore power is not enough for the load.

But it's all dreaming at this point

Jason
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #51
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That 900 watt run load will double when the compressor has to restart and you will have to be pulling well over 80 amps just when running. It will take a lot of battery to carry that for very long, and then the batteries will have to be recharged, something your TV's charge line won't be able to readily accomplish.



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Old 02-26-2013, 06:25 AM   #52
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Yeah, i know this idea is not realistic to run the ac for any period of time. The only time I would really want this for is when we stop overnight at a rest stop. And then it is just to knock the temperature down a few degrees until we nod off to sleep.

My understanding is the 900 watts is compressor running, not starting. I also figure the compressor runs for a few minutes then is off for a few minutes during normal cycling. I did read somewhere that start up load is several times running load, but that is only for a couple seconds. I would install a soft start kit if the ac did not already have it.

My a/c is only a 5000BTU, but I have looked at upgrading to maybe a 8000BTU when this one kicks the bucket.

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Old 02-26-2013, 08:24 AM   #53
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I also have a 5000btu ac in my ParkLiner and it says its pulling a little over 500 watts running...startup who knows? Im going a little larger of a generator because its gonna serve double duty as backup for poweroutages at my parents house... and I have a suspicion some of my friends will start bringing fans to plug in if its gonna be hot lol, or "time to fix the outhouse" and show up with tablesaws and all lol

Running the ac off your battery bank is an interesting idea but others have tried it and it quickly will eat up your batteries juice.

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Old 02-26-2013, 08:30 AM   #54
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Yeah, i know this idea is not realistic to run the ac for any period of time. The only time I would really want this for is when we stop overnight at a rest stop. And then it is just to knock the temperature down a few degrees until we nod off to sleep.

My understanding is the 900 watts is compressor running, not starting. I also figure the compressor runs for a few minutes then is off for a few minutes during normal cycling. I did read somewhere that start up load is several times running load, but that is only for a couple seconds. I would install a soft start kit if the ac did not already have it.

My a/c is only a 5000BTU, but I have looked at upgrading to maybe a 8000BTU when this one kicks the bucket.

Jason
Your need for batteries to start the a/c would far exceed your camper's tongue weight capacity. I believe the EggCamper's frame is only 2" I beam, even at 3", that battery weight would be too great.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:38 AM   #55
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If you are only going to use the A/C to "Cool Down" your RV you can bet that the compressor wil be running 100% of the time and seldom cycling on/off. The real draw is called "Locked Rotor Current" and occurs not at start up, but when restarting the compressor while running, when there is already a pressure load on it. As mentioned, this is brief, but it is soooo high that it will kick a lot of generators and inverters off line when it happens.



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Old 02-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #56
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I also have a 5000btu ac in my ParkLiner and it says its pulling a little over 500 watts running...startup who knows?
I am surprised it is that low of a draw. Lets do some math, if the inverter is 100% efficient, (they aren't) then the draw would be 500W / 12V = 42A. If you have two group 27 130Ah batteries on your tongue, and only draw them down to half charge, that gives you 3 hrs of air conditioning. Not bad.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #57
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This is the stats for my air conditioner, copied from frigidaires web site...


My unit is 5000 btu Frigidaire ac Power and Performance: Cooling Amperage: 4.8 Cooling BTU: 5000 Cooling Wattage: 515 Cord Length (ft.): 6 Energy Efficiency Rating: 9.7 Kilowatt Hrs. per Year: 12877 Maximum Air Flow (CFM): 120 Rated Amps (Receptacle): 15 Room Coverage in Sq. Ft.: 150 Total Connected Load: N/A Voltage: 110/120V

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Old 02-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #58
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Cooling Amperage: 4.8
120 VAC amps. 12 VDC amps would be at least 10x as much. So, lets be optimistic and call it 50A, including inverter losses. That is still 2.6 hrs of cool off.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #59
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I am surprised it is that low of a draw. Lets do some math, if the inverter is 100% efficient, (they aren't) then the draw would be 500W / 12V = 42A. If you have two group 27 130Ah batteries on your tongue, and only draw them down to half charge, that gives you 3 hrs of air conditioning. Not bad.
And really, if I stop at a rest stop it's already late and we are usually asleep within the hour. Usually sooner. So put it on a timer or let the low voltage monitor shut it down.

I would use the generator most times when not plugged into shore power. But this unit also covers for when shore power browns out or blacks out.

How many people leave the A/C running in their camper when they have to pay for it? I think most of us only run it as much as we have to if there is gassing up a generator or metered electric involved.

Jason

EDIT: I was looking into AGM batteries and putting them in a vented cell in the rear of the camper. It's a bugger to get back there so I figured I store something I don't access often. Buddy has a business lic and buys bulk. He offered to sell me one or two at cost.

I run the a/c off a 2000 watt inverter/generator now. It has no problem starting the a/c from an idle. I have run it off a 1200 (later de-rated to 1000) watt from Northern Tool. That was a struggle for it at first, but once it warmed up it did run the a/c for several hours.

I don't think locked rotor current will be an issue in this case. The inverter has a much larger surge rating than the generator.
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:06 PM   #60
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well except I have 2 55ah blue top batteries so about an hour... nah lol its a waste would rather run the generator.


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