Genesis - Page 2 - Fiberglass RV


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Old 03-02-2007, 11:06 AM   #21
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Hey, Steve, since you are in the trailer design business, how about something that would fit through a 7 foot garage door, that could be pulled by a regular car?

Bobbie
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:35 AM   #22
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Hey, Steve, since you are in the trailer design business, how about something that would fit through a 7 foot garage door, that could be pulled by a regular car?

Bobbie
Bobbie, you have me stumped. The only way I can imagine to do that already exists, in the form of a folding trailer (they do make hard wall versions of this) or a teardrop.

Perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

Steve
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:46 AM   #23
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Bobbie, you have me stumped. The only way I can imagine to do that already exists, in the form of a folding trailer (they do make hard wall versions of this) or a teardrop.

Perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

Steve
A garageable towed RV that could be pulled by a sedan tug is also my fantasy. I live in a condo with a HOA. Although I have a huge garage with a standard door my trailer has to sit on a storage lot. With most trailers on the market I'll have storage fees for the rest of my life. (Been there done that with soft sided popups.) When I move up or on or whatever as an RVer those storage fees will be eliminated. Also, the current truck gets 10 mpg. Yes, it hauls trailer but it also sucks gas. The next vehicle will be more fuel efficient and probably have a MUCH lower tow rating.
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Old 03-02-2007, 11:48 AM   #24
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Bobbie, you have me stumped. The only way I can imagine to do that already exists, in the form of a folding trailer (they do make hard wall versions of this) or a teardrop.

Perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

Steve
Well, there are at least 3 fairly simple approaches:

1) Reduced headroom. Not as short as a teardrop - but not 'standing' room. If you spend 95% of your time either laying or sitting - why have the extra headroom?

2) Move the floor closer to the ground. Reduced clearance reduces the ability to go offroad - but means you don't need a step to get into it. My old Boler was VERY close to the ground. I could stand up in it (I'm 6") easily AND it rolled into our garage with a 6'10" door height.

3) Pop-Top trailers. This isn't a pop-top, only the upper 2' or so expands. The only US example I know of was an 18' Bantam - and of course a lot of truck campers. You get lots of storage since the non-folding part can easily be 5' tall. I've seen plenty of examples in Europe and Australia.

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Old 03-02-2007, 12:42 PM   #25
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I read Jackís post last night and felt is was to the point, polite, fair and put him on the zero side of scoring.

At one time I may have really looked hard at the Genesis. Today, Iím looking for a tandem axle, little bigger & a little wider FiberglassRV - 19í to 21í.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:46 PM   #26
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3) Pop-Top trailers. This isn't a pop-top, only the upper 2' or so expands.
I'm guessing you mean a pop-top isn't the same as a pop-up. If I had the skill, equipment, money and time I'd figure out a way to effciently lower and raise the upper portion of an egg with a belly band by about 5 inches purely for garaging purposes.

Steve's trailer will appeal to those folks who want to be able to stand full height in their trailer without mussing their hair or massaging their scalps. Those same folks will also like being able to stretch full length on their bed. (Since I'm 5'5" and the current gf is 2 inches shorter than me, not a factor in my house.) It will also appeal to the tired of tents, teardrops and/or popup people who are interested in stepping up to a hard-sided more secure camper. Its for outdoors people who have all of their non-sleeping activities outside the trailer, not the traveling hotel room people. In a sense it is an entry level travel trailer without the entry level quality or price.
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Old 03-02-2007, 01:24 PM   #27
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I want to start by saying that if the Genisis had been available when I first decided to get a trailer a couple of years ago, I'd have been **very** interested. I started by looking at teardrops, and the design still appeals to me. I'm definitely one of the people who would be excited by the headroom. And I really like that Steve has made a conscious decision to put out a high-quality trailer with plenty of standard amenities that we here all talk about somehow incorporating in our own trailers.

I don't entirely understand all of the technicalities that have been discussed about weght issues. I do agree that the trailer is a little on the heavy side, because even though my Villager could tow it (at 3500lb capacity), by the time I loaded up I wouldn't want to tow it. That would put me well inside my safety margins and maybe on the wrong side of them. I think a couple hundred pound reduction would go a long way in buyer appeal. On the other hand, I don't know how you'd do it and maintain all the features. Just a thought from someone who tows with a lower capacity vehicle.

A feature that has me confused is the washroom. I'm not knocking an indoor privy, y'unnerstand. But in my head (pun intended), the sort of camper that is going to be willing to stand out in cruddy weather to do his cooking isn't going to mind a hike to the bathroom when one is available. Or if boondocking, that camper is probably going to set up a privy somewhere -- or will just act like a bear. The washroom is a nice feature, and maybe in the future it could be an option, as with Scamp/Casita, leaving room for additional storage/seating/bunks.

Only one bed is a drawback. I think there are a lot of families that would love a trailer like this but who would not buy due to it having only one bed. I think many of them would be thrilled to substitute a set of bunks for the washroom. My son (and his wife!) comes to mind.

Somebody already mentioned it, but I'm saying it again: here in the rainy NW where I am, snap-on walls for the kitchen area would be very desirable. Very. Very. Very. I'd pay extra for them, yes I would.

A fold-down table on the inside would be useful, perhaps opposite the door. Someplace to put the teacup and watercress sandwiches while watching Anne of Green Gables on a rainy day.

Overall, I like the looks, features, and feel of this trailer. I hope I get the chance to see one before too long.

Steve, thanks for coming and showing it to us, and for all the feedback you've given about the design rationales, construction, and features.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:05 PM   #28
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A feature that has me confused is the washroom. I'm not knocking an indoor privy, y'unnerstand. But in my head (pun intended), the sort of camper that is going to be willing to stand out in cruddy weather to do his cooking isn't going to mind a hike to the bathroom when one is available. Or if boondocking, that camper is probably going to set up a privy somewhere -- or will just act like a bear. The washroom is a nice feature, and maybe in the future it could be an option, as with Scamp/Casita, leaving room for additional storage/seating/bunks.

Only one bed is a drawback. I think there are a lot of families that would love a trailer like this but who would not buy due to it having only one bed. I think many of them would be thrilled to substitute a set of bunks for the washroom. My son (and his wife!) comes to mind.

Somebody already mentioned it, but I'm saying it again: here in the rainy NW where I am, snap-on walls for the kitchen area would be very desirable. Very. Very. Very. I'd pay extra for them, yes I would.

A fold-down table on the inside would be useful, perhaps opposite the door. Someplace to put the teacup and watercress sandwiches while watching Anne of Green Gables on a rainy day.
Good points all. Given the reaction here, we will need to do some work on the weight as you suggest. I especially like the bunk bed idea. Your comment even makes me think of a way to place a bunk and keep the shower/bath/lavy. That suggestion alone really makes me glad we joined the group. I think we will learn a lot here about what people want. The garageable unit idea is very cool also.

With regard to a table, we do include a couple of tablemates with the unit. These are a kind of TV table that snuggle up to the sofa, and fold flat. We chose these so that they could serve a dual use inside and out, and they work well with the sofa bed design. However, I have to admit, a folding table would be nice.

Thanks to you and everyone here for the comments and suggestions.

Steve
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:36 PM   #29
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...we did not want to change the coupler and publish such a GVWR for a trailer that weighs 2860 lbs., as we were afraid we might scare people off with such a high GVWR.
Thanks for the information, Steve. It is unfortunate that many potential buyers don't understand that GVWR is a capability, not a weight that they have to pull, and may look at a high GVWR as a problem, when it is really an advantage.

My Boler B1700 has an Atwood coupler with a 5000 lb rating (but still 2" ball size), and a much lower GVWR. All I can suggest is changing to the higher-capacity coupler and [b]publishing a compromise GVWR - it is the manufacturer's rating to set, even if the hardware is capable of more.

I think that in combination, the tire upgrade and this potential coupler upgrade would add valuable flexibility for the end user of the trailer. It still wouldn't suit my current needs, but I wholeheartedly agree with the Lutz niche market plan - if you are realistically not going have a large market share, success comes from finding the right niche.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:37 PM   #30
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Bobbie, you have me stumped. The only way I can imagine to do that already exists, in the form of a folding trailer (they do make hard wall versions of this) or a teardrop.

Perhaps others have some thoughts on this.

Steve
A folding trailer reportedly requires abut 20 minutes of set-up time and is not very comfortable in inclement weather. A pop-top (they are still made for truck campers) takes about two minutes to raise.

What about some mechanism to lower the trailer for a slow move into a garage?

Bobbie
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:40 PM   #31
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3) Pop-Top trailers. This isn't a pop-top, only the upper 2' or so expands. The only US example I know of was an 18' Bantam - and of course a lot of truck campers...
The Hi-Lo is an example of this system, although maybe with more expansion travel than Mike is suggesting. It might be tough to apply to the Genesis format since it would be nice to allow access to the galley without having to raise the top, but I think it's an interesting idea.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:45 PM   #32
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...we are considering a change to a new tire, an ST195/75D14D 8 Ply Sure Trail MTD which is rated for 1880 lbs.
It's great to hear that the Genesis is evolving in response to consumer feedback, and of course I certainly agree with the tire rating upgrade.

I still don't understand the widespread trailer practice of using very narrow high-pressure tires - even bias plys - instead of something more compatible with the handling characteristics of the likely tow vehicle. An ST205/75R14 (or larger) could stay with load range C and provide a softer ride, better in synch with the tug. I realize that my view in this area is not with the majority - perhaps options would be good, especially since there is a cost consequence.
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Old 03-02-2007, 02:53 PM   #33
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Steve,

I am afraid that I am one of those who would not buy it if I were in the market, because I would not like the galley kitchen outside. I am one of those who thinks her trailer is her hotel room on wheels. I like having no bugs (or at least only a few) and the air conditioning when cooking. That being said, I like the looks of your trailer; I think it is cute, and I envy the bathroom. What about a drop-down cooker inside, something that could be flipped up out of the way, but pulled down to cook?

Cindy
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:00 PM   #34
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Steve,

I am afraid that I am one of those who would not buy it if I were in the market, because I would not like the galley kitchen outside. I am one of those who thinks her trailer is her hotel room on wheels. I like having no bugs (or at least only a few) and the air conditioning when cooking. That being said, I like the looks of your trailer; I think it is cute, and I envy the bathroom. What about a drop-down cooker inside, something that could be flipped up out of the way, but pulled down to cook?

Cindy
We are thinking about making a slide out where the galley is now, and installing a dinette and kitchen inside, and perhaps being able to sleep four while keeping the 12 foot length. But for now this is only an idea, as we must get some traction in the market with what we are building now.

Steve
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Old 03-02-2007, 03:19 PM   #35
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We are thinking about making a slide out where the galley is now, and installing a dinette and kitchen inside, and perhaps being able to sleep four while keeping the 12 foot length. But for now this is only an idea, as we must get some traction in the market with what we are building now.

Steve
I think there is more of a market there than where you are now. Most campers I know got into it because of kids (Price a week at DisneyWorld or a week at the state park for a family of 4 why don't ya?) or they got too old and creeky for sleeping on the ground. The trailer as is is sufficient for creeky Mom and Pop (maybe) or a robust single. The singles I know are a lot more cautious with the money they don't have. The bunk option would be a great start that I think will make it more attractive to a larger group. ) Double bunks, even better.
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Old 03-02-2007, 08:51 PM   #36
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I think Cindy is on to something. Here in the Pacific NorthWET the idea of going outside on a rainy morning at oh-dark-thirty to fix a cup of coffee doesn't appeal to me. But perhaps something along the lines of a tent-trailer where the stove can be disengaged from inside and put outside when wanted (or dry weather)...would be a good thing
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:33 PM   #37
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Here in the Pacific NorthWET the idea of going outside on a rainy morning at oh-dark-thirty to fix a cup of coffee doesn't appeal to me.
If that window between the couch and the galley were enlarged or reconfigured, it could be a pass-thru for access to at least the stove (turned sideways), and possibly the sink, and definitely the counter from the inside...
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Old 03-03-2007, 12:22 AM   #38
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If that window between the couch and the galley were enlarged or reconfigured, it could be a pass-thru for access to at least the stove (turned sideways), and possibly the sink, and definitely the counter from the inside...
You can't see it all that well from this picture but that's basically how they designed this teardrop. A section of the wall above the galley counter drops down on hinges and is suspended by chains. The dropdown acts as a table for those inside the camper.

Because the table can be dropped down from inside the camper, things on the galley counter can be reached from inside. I saw a picture a long time ago of how they had cut away the counter so it could be lifted up and the freezer/ice chest could also be accessed from inside. I could see that arrangement working here if instead of the jacknife sofa there were the usual convertible dinette inside the trailer. Such an arrangement might actually offer something unique in the world of small trailers, really comfortable seating for those trips where it rains for days on end and you are stuck inside reading and watching DVDs.

Podcaravans - English Teardrop
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Old 03-03-2007, 01:20 AM   #39
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I think it is wonderful to see another Fiberglass trailer on the Market. I love my Scamp 5er . But they are not for everyone. Not everyone camps in Soggy Oregon in Feb <drip, drip>
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:48 AM   #40
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For an even better pass-through, here is the (American) 15ft Grasshopper trailer with full external and internal access to its kitchen. In case it's not clear, the fridge is mounted high up behind the kitchen so its door opens forwards.


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Sorry if it causes offence, it's a stickie - but curiously the same idea would work in fiberglass....

Fitting this into the Genesis would be hard as the convertible couch would need to be pulled forwards, blocking the entry door.

Andrew
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