Genesis - Fiberglass RV


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Old 02-26-2007, 11:39 PM   #1
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Name: Steve
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Hello-

My name is Steve Wishek, and I would like to share with you a new fiberglass trailer which we have just this month introduced. The name of the trailer is Genesis. The company is American Sport Trailer. If you would like to see us, you can find us at http://www.americansporttrailer.com.


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As a new manufacturer we appreciate the opportunity to post to this forum, and we look forward to your comments.

Thanks!

Steve
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:45 PM   #2
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Hi Steve,

Thank You for letting us know about your new trailer. It looks very interesting. Also, thank you for asking permission to announce your new trailer.

It looks good.
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:50 PM   #3
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The 6'4" interior height will excite some of our members.
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Old 02-27-2007, 05:37 AM   #4
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Great looking and innovative trailer, Steve! There sure isn't anything else like it on the market. We wish you all the best.

Roger
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Old 02-27-2007, 06:12 AM   #5
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Great looking and innovative trailer, Steve! There sure isn't anything else like it on the market. We wish you all the best.

Roger
Hello Steve
Nice looking trailer. I do like the outside galley reminisent of the teardrop style. Is there a snap-on dining shelter available for this area for times of inclement weather [Should we ever get any].With the kitchen outside the interior should seem very roomy. At over 3000 pounds loaded weight, my only criticizm would be that it does seem a little on the heavy side especially for the smaller tow vehicles that a lot of us drive.
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Old 02-27-2007, 11:37 AM   #6
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Hello Steve
Nice looking trailer. I do like the outside galley reminisent of the teardrop style. Is there a snap-on dining shelter available for this area for times of inclement weather [Should we ever get any].With the kitchen outside the interior should seem very roomy. At over 3000 pounds loaded weight, my only criticizm would be that it does seem a little on the heavy side especially for the smaller tow vehicles that a lot of us drive.
Thank you. You bring up some very good points. We have not developed a snap on dining shelter as yet, but it could be easily done. With regard to the weight, we understand your concern. It was certainly on our minds as we developed Genesis. The standard features and construction drive the weight. We felt that the features and construction we elected to use were important to the durability and usefullness of the product, and when you consider that a 4 cylinder Toyota pick-up is rated for a 3500 lb. tow weight, we believe that Genesis will be ok for most folks.

Steve
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:19 PM   #7
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It looks nice. It's a grown up teardrop. I like it better than the T@B. At least the Genises has a shower and washroom.

Curt
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Old 02-27-2007, 12:41 PM   #8
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Cute trailer.....!! yeah the Toyota Tacoma 4 cylinder is a great pu.... its surprising what wieght they can tow.. I towed my 16ft Scamp side dinnette with it with no problems.. but I didnt conker any steep grades either.. pulling your little trailer would be a breeze!!!
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:08 PM   #9
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Welcome, Steve!

It's good to see another option in our class of RV. This one has an especially interesting design, particularly the construction, and I appreciate the detailed explanation on the Genesis website.

My only initial concern is that it is exceptionally heavy for the size. Although compact pickups can tow this, it really is marginal for the minivans / wagons / crossovers / small SUVs (or whatever you call them) which very commonly have a 3500 lb tow rating... which is unfortunate.

Best wishes with the new product, and I look forward to hearing more about it. Steve, I hope you will take advantage of FiberglassRV to stay in touch with us, as some other trailer manufacturers have.
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Old 02-28-2007, 08:04 AM   #10
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We have owned 7 RVs ( 3 pop-ups, 2 mini-motorhomes, a 24 ft. TT a,d a 30 ft 5th wheel) and been camping for 20 years and my opinion would be that: (1) The construction looks very good but that has made it a little pricey and heavy for the size of the trailer (2) The CCC of 300 and something seems limiting especially since you generally want to stay a little under the CCC when towing (3) The bed didn't look very comfortable and with only sleeping two I would think that would also be limiting (4) It has really clean lines inside and out and that should attract some. Since the product is being manufactured in California perhaps the price isn't that bad as we live in a low-income area. Since we need to sleep three it wouldn't be anything we could consider anyway. I used to work in the office of an RV manufacturer that sold factory direct and the RV industry is a very competitive market. Wishing Genesis the best of luck in the future. Sometimes it just takes a little time to tweak the product to customer demand. Cathy
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Old 02-28-2007, 11:55 AM   #11
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Far to heavy and way to expensive for the size.

Put the $$ towards a Scamp 5er for about the same $$.
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Old 03-01-2007, 02:32 PM   #12
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:00 PM   #13
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We understand that Genesis is different, and therefore not for everyone. Certainly, the members of this forum know what it is to be different, or you would not be pulling the fiberglass rigs you love. For this reason, we hope there are a few who will appreciate what Genesis has to offer.

We made some decisions when we designed Genesis that differs from the industry norm. For example, many manufacturers will rate the weight (and price) of their trailers based on a basic unit without options. Things like air conditioners, batteries, spare tires, and awnings are not included. We think this is misleading. For this reason, we build Genesis complete, list all of the features as standard and include them in both the weight and the price.

Yes, Genesis is built like a little 2800 lb. tank. A driving reason for this, beyond the features, is the construction. Having been in the RV business for many years, we have seen first hand the results of under-built frames and poor construction. We want happy customers, so we resolved that Genesis would be over-built. We use core-mat extensively in the fiberglass for high strength and impact resistance. The chassis is assembled using 2 x 3 powder coated steel tubing. The roof structure supporting the glass is constructed utilizing 2 x 4 joists. All of these things together with the standard features drive the weight.

You cannot build a 12 foot long RV without facing some tough choices about weight and features. You certainly cannot make everyone happy. So the questions in the end are these: Is 2800 lbs. too much? Are the features things that people want and are willing to pay for? If we have guessed the answers to these questions wrongly, then we will know soon enough, as people will vote with their wallets. These votes will decide our future. For my part, I sure hope we have guessed right for at least a few.

Steve
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Old 03-01-2007, 06:44 PM   #14
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Some


If it has a torson axle, what are the specs?

If it is a spring axle, does it have shocks, brakes and how many pounds will the axle support.

How many pounds will it haul?

Do you use LED lights inside and out?
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Old 03-01-2007, 07:10 PM   #15
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Some
If it has a torson axle, what are the specs?

If it is a spring axle, does it have shocks, brakes and how many pounds will the axle support.

How many pounds will it haul?

Do you use LED lights inside and out?
Genesis utilizes a marine grade torsion axle with auto lube hubs rated for 3750 lbs. It has electric brakes and a 5-year warranty on the hubs. A company called Unique Functional Products in San Marcos, California manufactures it.

The weight of the trailer is 2860 lbs. The trailer is rated to carry 3500 lbs. This means that it can carry 640 lbs. of payload. The CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) is rated at 315 lbs. wet. This payload remains after allowing for 35 gallons of fresh water at 8.4 lbs. per gallon, plus 20 lbs. of propane. In our experience however, very few people fill the fresh tank prior to arriving at their destination. It is not very fuel efficient to carry around 300 lbs. of water, and the available payload can be better utilized carrying other items.

Most of the lights on the trailer are incandescent. This is mostly due to cost considerations. Genesis does utilize LED reading lights in two locations above the sofa/bed in the cabin area.

Steve
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:03 PM   #16
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I understand that the weight results from some very deliberate design decisions, and I'm not questioning that. I think it is good to have options, in a world of very similarly built RVs. It should be understood that this trailer is not towable by many vehicles with 3500 lb nominal tow ratings, because of the high hitch load... weight-distribution would be required in many cases (such as my Toyota Sienna), and that eliminates typical Class 2 hitches commonly found on small SUVs (and my van).

Since we're getting into details, one spec puzzles me; perhaps you might want to discuss it, Steve. The axle capacity is quite high (3750 lb); however, the GAWR rating is limited to 3220 lb, apparently because the 195/75D14 (load range C) tires are only rated for 1610 lb each. For comparison, my old 17' Boler is a few hundred pounds lighter, and came on F78-14 (now 205/75-14 tires), typical of "eggs" of this size. In such a substantially constructed design as the Genesis, why not a larger tire? ST205/75-14 tires (still load range C) would make 300 lb of axle capacity available, for people who want to carry more stuff, and would provide a reassuring margin for those who don't.
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Old 03-01-2007, 08:06 PM   #17
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... In our experience however, very few people fill the fresh tank prior to arriving at their destination. It is not very fuel efficient to carry around 300 lbs. of water, and the available payload can be better utilized carrying other items.
That seems to be the consensus in this forum, too, and it's what I have done.

Sometimes, though, there's no water source at the campsite and at least the last bit of the haul needs to include water. It would be too bad to have to leave something behind because it could not be accommodated for the last hour of a day-long trip to a remote destination.
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Old 03-01-2007, 09:44 PM   #18
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:27 AM   #19
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I understand that the weight results from some very deliberate design decisions, and I'm not questioning that. I think it is good to have options, in a world of very similarly built RVs. It should be understood that this trailer is not towable by many vehicles with 3500 lb nominal tow ratings, because of the high hitch load... weight-distribution would be required in many cases (such as my Toyota Sienna), and that eliminates typical Class 2 hitches commonly found on small SUVs (and my van).

Since we're getting into details, one spec puzzles me; perhaps you might want to discuss it, Steve. The axle capacity is quite high (3750 lb); however, the GAWR rating is limited to 3220 lb, apparently because the 195/75D14 (load range C) [b]tires are only rated for 1610 lb each. For comparison, my old 17' Boler is a few hundred pounds lighter, and came on F78-14 (now 205/75-14 tires), typical of "eggs" of this size. In such a substantially constructed design as the Genesis, why not a larger tire? ST205/75-14 tires (still load range C) would make 300 lb of axle capacity available, for people who want to carry more stuff, and would provide a reassuring margin for those who don't.
Brian, you are quite correct in everything that you state. Towing should always be safe, and according to the capabilities of the tow vehicle. As a side note, we are seeing a reduction in the tongue weight of the production units to about 390 lbs. Also, bear in mind that the galley and fresh tanks (and therefore the bulk of the cargo load) are behind the axle, and will therefore lighten the tongue as the trailer is loaded.

With regard to the tires and axle, the numbers you quote are right on. Due to the GVWR, we did not see a need to increase the capacity of the tires to match the axle, but since you mention it, we are considering a change to a new tire, an ST195/75D14D 8 Ply Sure Trail MTD which is rated for 1880 lbs. This will bring the tires in line with the axle capacity at 3750 lbs.

The coupler on the tongue, which is rated at 3500 lbs, limits the GVWR of the Genesis trailer. We could of course increase the coupler to 5000 lbs., the result of which would be that the trailer would have a GVWR of something in the neighborhood of 4150 lbs., a payload of 1290 lbs., and a CCC of around 950 lbs. wet. Therefore, while the trailer is designed to handle these loads, we did not want to change the coupler and publish such a GVWR for a trailer that weighs 2860 lbs., as we were afraid we might scare people off with such a high GVWR.

Steve
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Old 03-02-2007, 10:43 AM   #20
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Jack, I am not sure why you removed your post, as you said what you feel. In any case, I respect your passion.

There was a fellow named Lutz, who took over Chrysler from Iacocca, in the days before the Germans bought the company. When he came on board, Chrysler had been building the K cars for many years, and they were stale. Their designers and engineers were scoring 7's and 8's on a scale of 1 to 10 in the consumer focus groups, and were very proud of these scores. Problem was nobody was buying their cars.

So along came Lutz. He dictated that they build something very nitchy and unusual. With reservations, the engineers and designers went to work. The resulting car scored 0's and 10's, polarizing the focus groups. Lutz ordered the car into production, and they sold every vehicle they made, and made very good money doing it. The car? It was the Viper. Two seats, completely impractical, overpriced, it was a hit. It was also pretty and fun.

Lutz was making the point to his staff that polarization is a good thing. People may love it or hate it, but the ones who love it will buy it. People who rate something a seven, likely will not.

Jack, I guess for you, Genesis is a zero. If I agree with Lutz, then that is OK. We can only hope that for some, it will be a 10.

Respectfully,

Steve
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