Goodbye Paradise

[Patrick M.]

We're removing Baja, at least for the foreseeable future, from our list of places we need to travel to. I know many people make regular trips down there, apparently without incident, but I don't relish being confronted like some of the people in this article published this week were. Bye bye Baja (and all of Mexico for that matter). http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5heL6IBq...Bsb4eQD8TVR9780

PLAYAS DE ROSARITO, Mexico (AP) — Assaults on American tourists have brought hard times to hotels and restaurants that dot Mexican beaches just south of the border from San Diego.

Surfers and kayakers are frightened to hit the waters of the northern stretch of Mexico's Baja California peninsula, long popular as a weekend destination for U.S. tourists. Weddings have been canceled. Lobster joints a few steps from the Pacific were almost empty on the usually busy New Year's weekend.

Americans have long tolerated shakedowns by police who boost salaries by pulling over motorists for alleged traffic violations, and tourists know parts of Baja are a hotbed of drug-related violence. But a handful of attacks since summer by masked, armed bandits — some of whom used flashing lights to appear like police — marks a new extreme that has spooked even longtime visitors.

Lori Hoffman, a San Diego-area emergency room nurse, said she was sexually assaulted Oct. 23 by two masked men in front of her boyfriend, San Diego Surfing Academy owner Pat Weber, who was forced to kneel at gunpoint for 45 minutes. They were at a campground with about 30 tents, some 200 miles south of the border.

The men shot out windows of the couple's trailer and forced their way inside, ransacked the cupboards and left with about $7,000 worth of gear, including computers, video equipment and a guitar.

Weber, who has taught dozens of students in Mexico over the last 10 years, plans to surf in Costa Rica or New Zealand. "No more Mexico," said Hoffman, who reported the attack to Mexican police. No arrests have been made.

much more via link

[Christi V.]

Wow.. thats to bad that you have to scratch that off your list. but it seems the violence in Mexico is getting (or is) really bad...
Look at that girl that was in Aruba they still havent found....
I have never been to Mexico just for that reason. I have heard alot of stories about stuff that happens... And we always thought Tijuana was bad a long time ago...

[Ron N]

Recently laid off from my engineering job here in Oregon, I began to ask, "where can I go to let my hair down for a week or two and enjoy my Bigfoot trailer?". I almost never go south of the Oregon border for anything. I began thinking about Mexico but then began to remember why I have never been there in my 61 years on this planet. In 1969, while at North Island in Southern California, on my way to Viet Nam, the commanding officer of our squadron warned us about getting in trouble in Mexico and the U.S. government/military authorities not being able to get us out of the Mexican jails. And then, of course, all my life there were the horror stories of Americans being victimized by the crooked cops and shaken down for under-the-table money. I have travelled to 13 foreign countries, been in nearly all Canadian provinces, been in every state in the U.S. except Alaska but have NEVER been to Mexico although I was just a few miles from the border. Something just tells me that to add that country to my list of those visited would just not be worth the risk, time, money, and effort. Too bad San Antonio is too far away. The people there are so friendly and the weather would be perfect (this time of year).

[Phil Underwood]

wow.. thanks for the headsup... we had no idea

[Gina D.]

I don't see how these "stats" differ from the goings on in any major US city daily.

My concern over taking my trailer to Mexico would stem from driving and road conditions and etiquette, not personal safety.

In all my years of traveling in Baja, I have only had an "incident" with the federale' once. Smile, hand them a 20 and go on your way. It was hardly a "Shake Down". (I bartered them down from 80, actually LOL!) I wasn't happy about the stop, but frankly, I have had more un nerving problems with customs on our side than with Mexican officials, anywhere.

I am making an edjumicated guess that I have made 200+ border crossings in the past 10 years.

I drive LA freeways everyday ... much scarier.

[Frederick L. Simson]

In 1969, while at North Island in Southern California, on my way to Viet Nam, the commanding officer of our squadron warned us about getting in trouble in Mexico and the U.S. government/military authorities not being able to get us out of the Mexican jails.

This was similar to my 1st experience south of the border...

When I newly reported to equipment school here at Service School Command in San Diego in the early 1970's, I had spent all of my annual leave during Thanksgiving and had to stay in the barracks over Christmas. One Saturday morning, the word circulated that a collection was being taken up to bail a shipmate out of Mexican jail. The money had to be delivered in person to the American Lawyer who would plead before the judge, and someone would need to stay with the lawyer for however long it took, because the defendant would need to be transported back to base, none of which could happen in an official government vehicle or with persons in uniform. Having nothing better to do, I volunteered for the mission. Someone gave me their car keys; I didn't have a car, and I was told to park on this side of the border and meet the lawyer at the US Customs Building.

Well, the task took most of the afternoon. The lawyer and I drove into Mexico in his car, and after getting a tour of downtown Tijuana and having to wait in the car, we finally met the sailor as he was released, with a still unset broken arm. After the lawyer dropped us off at the car waiting in the parking lot just on this side of the border, I drove the guy to the ER at Balboa Hospital, and returned to the barracks.

The situation was pretty much this guy's fault, from my perspective. A bar brawl in TJ after a Friday night of drinking... I never went into Mexico again during my military career.

However, when I first started working in the Scale business, we had many customers in Mexico. When a co-worker who maintained the Mexican contracts left the company, I was tasked with continuing the service. I had some trepidation of doing so due to my previous experience, but I usually work through difficulties, and I did this also. My customers were helpful all the way, and we joked about my broken Spanish balancing their broken English.

I was stopped by the Tijuana Police once. I had been advised to insist on being escorted to headquarters to settle the infraction, and did just that. After spending time checking my ID, the 2 officers released me with only a warning.

I wound up enjoying working in Mexico very much, and it was bittersweet when economic conditions made going there unprofitable for my company. There have been an uptick in carjackings here in San Diego recently, so I don't think this news item is any [b]less probable on this side of the border.

[Byron Kinnaman]

So what I get from this is to stay away from Southern California and Mexico. Is that correct?

[CharlynnT]

As a youth, I travelled south across the border on a whim, knowing my car-mates and I would likely be questioned both ways. We were young and had simply been shopping for cotton goods -- especially summer dresses, halter-tops, tea towels.

Things have changed since then, even with the CDN dollar at par.

Oh, I'm talking about southern Manitoba to North Dakota.

[John Perry]

So what I get from this is to stay away from Southern California and Mexico. Is that correct?

Not much difference anymore. I was in Orange County, south of L. A., a few weeks ago, pulled into a McDonalds drive thru to get a burger and could not understand the Mexican person that tried to take my order so I left.

[Gina D.]

Lets not get offtrack here and keep this thread for info on peoples experiences traveling in Mexico.

Thanks.

[Patrick M.]

Here's another viewpoint from a frequent RVer to Mexico. http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseacti...id/20822286.cfm

I have traveled Mexico with my wife for twelve years regularly and for the last three years extensively. We have lived in Mexico six months of each of the last three years. We have been in all but two of Mexico's states traveling by RV and we have spoken to and interviewed hundreds of people in those years for video projects. We have never experienced any violence in the country and we have never met anyone who has. I can say with experience and with certainty that Mexico is as safe a country to visit as any I have been in and my wife and I have lived in both the U.S. and in Europe.

[Ron N]

In all my years of traveling in Baja, I have only had an "incident" with the federale' once. Smile, hand them a 20 and go on your way. It was hardly a "Shake Down". (I bartered them down from 80, actually LOL!) I wasn't happy about the stop, but frankly, I have had more un nerving problems with customs on our side than with Mexican officials, anywhere.

As a former reserve police officer here in Oregon, the thought of handing a police officer (or federale) a $20 bill and "bartering" my way "down from 80" (essentially a bribe), repulses me. Quite frankly, my outrage during a transaction like that would undoubtedly show and I'd be in an even more mess than the $20. Traveling north of the Oregon/Cali border sounds much better to me. No cops to take bribes here or in Canada.

[Lee m]

My wife and I have travelled all over Mexico by boat, camper and bus. We've spent one of the last three years either in Baja or the yucatan. We have experienced no trouble other than what you would expect in any city anywhere. The major highways are as good as U.S. highways and the smaller roads vary. Gas stations are everywhere and clean. Grocery stores, Dr's offices, schools and government offices are no longer 3rd world. for sure you are in a foriegn country and must act accordingly. We spend no time in the border towns, which are desperate places, but the further inland you travel the nicer things become. To be scared off because of internet talk and newspaper stories is just wrong. This isn't the Mexico you knew as a kid, the cops no longer require the "tips" that used to be common. Get a good guide book, search for current information and be smart while you're there. Lee

[Gina D.]

I by no means condone or encourage this behavior, as mentioned, I was not happy about it.

I was trying to point out that it is not what folks in vision it to be.. and that even tho it is a possibility, it is a remote one that is quite livable. Paying them that way is far far easier than going to "the station", which you always have the option of doing if you wish. But it is time consuming, and a big big hassle if not familiar with the territory or law practices. (They know this and play on it, if they are "crooked") You are not pulled from your car, frisked or "shaken Down". It is simply a business transaction. A short one at that. Not very threatening if you know this beforehand.

I wouldn't use this behavior as justification to completely ban a whole countries worth of travel. Nor would I use the crime factor. Anything that was mentioned happens daily in San Diego, or Chicago.. or even, yes, Portland Oregon.

Even tho Mexico is just a few feet away from the American culture in one of it's largest cities, don't lose sight of the fact that it IS a foreign country, just as any other, and their idea of "norm" is different than ours.

We have sometimes been spoiled by the similarities of the Canadian culture to ours, and possibly expect that the similarities continue with the country attached to us on the south. It's not.

In contrast, I was detained in France, a country considered "modern" and similar in norm to the US (Like any EEC country) for several hours. It was at the whim of the police, (Not immigrations, the regular police) for standing in front of a remote airport, waiting for a friend to pick me up. I was by myself, and simply standing there with my bags, smoking a cig, in a leather jacket looking all rock star and stuff. I was.. standing, not speaking to anyone, or acting weird. Merely... waiting. They, by their laws, can detain you because they don't like your look, and nothing more. I was interrogated, hassled about my lack of knowledge of the language, and held for awhile while all my "papers" were verified, including my plane tickets. Then, without a word, I was released.

I didn't argue with them either, you have to remember, you're not in Kansas anymore. You are in a completely different world, despite it's "look".

[Roger H]

As a former reserve police officer here in Oregon, the thought of handing a police officer (or federale) a $20 bill and "bartering" my way "down from 80" (essentially a bribe), repulses me. Quite frankly, my outrage during a transaction like that would undoubtedly show and I'd be in an even more mess than the $20. Traveling north of the Oregon/Cali border sounds much better to me. No cops to take bribes here or in Canada.

I worked the border for a short time in San Ysidro (that's the San Diego border) in 1979 and got to know a few of the Tijuana policemen through the border fence. They work just as hard as any cops in the world. Back then, they received a salary of a whopping $30/month. Out of that $30 had to come their uniforms, weapons, ammunition, and leather gear. We would regularly give them our "old" personally owned equipment through the border fence when we could. They would pass it on to whichever officer needed it the most.

The practice of "shaking down" tourists is called "mordida" and it was a highly refined art form. It is also the primary way those poor guys get enough money to feed their families. While I don't condone it, I certainly understand why it happens. I don't know what's happened there in the past twenty-five years with salaries for the T.J. cops, but I suspect it's not much better now than it was then. I do know that violence against them has risen dramatically over that time.

I've found that speaking even a modicum of Spanish while being a "tourista" visiting in their world opens amazing doors as far as hospitality in Spanish-speaking countries, even those where English is as common as Spanish.

Roger

[Flygal]

My wife and I have travelled all over Mexico by boat, camper and bus. We've spent one of the last three years either in Baja or the yucatan. We have experienced no trouble other than what you would expect in any city anywhere. The major highways are as good as U.S. highways and the smaller roads vary. Gas stations are everywhere and clean. Grocery stores, Dr's offices, schools and government offices are no longer 3rd world. for sure you are in a foriegn country and must act accordingly. We spend no time in the border towns, which are desperate places, but the further inland you travel the nicer things become. To be scared off because of internet talk and newspaper stories is just wrong. This isn't the Mexico you knew as a kid, the cops no longer require the "tips" that used to be common. Get a good guide book, search for current information and be smart while you're there. Lee

Tell that to my freinds husband who just returned from Mexico and was kindly able to board his plane after immigration drove him to the cash machine (one mile away "cab ride") for $25 so he could get some more money for "neccesary paperwork" ..... danger lurks everywhere even in your own back yard.. you can find a tragic story for anywhere anyone has ever visited, now would I like to be in a foreign country when this happens...not really...I do agree witht this post however on get a good guide book and be smart with your choices .....Brandy

[Booker B.]

Interesting thread as we were planning to go to Mexico this upcoming winter instead of doing the resort thing. My next door neighbor has done numerous trips to Mexico in his camper as have many of my old treeplanting pals in VW's.

Most of the concerns they have had were the drivers on the roads, not crime. On the Baja they recommended getting below the border towns as fast as possible as the border areas are the sketchy ones. The farther from the border the safer they felt.

Doing anything is more dangerous then sitting at home in front of the TV - Some of my best experiences in life were ones where I took a chance or a risk or did an unknown. Up here in Canada all we hear about is how much crime there is in the US but obviously all our southern neighbors feel safe enough to travel throughout their amazing country side =)

[Roger H]

Doing anything is more dangerous then sitting at home in front of the TV -

Wow... Booker... that's some statement. Have you actually WATCHED TV in the past couple of years? The shows on that thing are so bad, they'll kill ya!

Rog

[Byron Kinnaman]

Doing anything is more dangerous then sitting at home in front of the TV

I wouldn't say that. It could be pretty dangerous sitting in front of the TV if my wife decided it was time to go shopping.

[Booker B.]

Well, to tell you the truth I haven't had a TV for 10 years - just bought one to watch the classics with my boys (Raiders of the Lost Ark) but we don't have cable out where we are. So my only dose of TV is when I head to the big smoke to visit relatives. Couple days of that and I am good for a year =). My partner here in the office was just telling me about America's Top Smartest Model ... I don't think I am missing much