Help right a wrong!!!

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I'm trying to help right a wrong.

At the very least, I'm hoping the vast internet RV family will help express my outrage.

On March 26th, David Koertge, a registered user on www.fiberglassrv.com quickly responded to the following ad listed on auto-rv.com:

1982 16' SCAMP TT, $1,999.
located at PATS CAMPER
www.patcamper.com
DAYTON, OH
1-800-842-4074

As you may or may not know, used tiny molded fiberglass rigs are hard to find, so David was excited about his "find."

"I called and made a deposit with credit card." David said. "I was going to pick up saturday morning but the dealer called and said too bad he sold it to someone the next day."

I called the dealership to verify David's story, and talked with his Pat's Camper salesman, Eric, about the soured deal.

The salesman verified that David had, in fact, put a $500 credit card deposit on the trailer ... but that someone had come in the later who was willing to pay "in-full" for the rig.

"We refunded his deposit to his credit card the next day," said Eric, the Pat's Camper salesman.

Eric explained that the dealership's policy was that a deposit was not enough to "hold" an RV if someone else was ready and willing to pay in full.

I told Eric that I thought that since "money had changed hands," that David would have a legally binding contract, from a legal standpoint.

"We had nothing in writing," the salesman said.

I sincerely believe that we should let the fine folks at Pat's Camper know exactly what we think about their shoddy business practice ... by either email or calling their 1-800 number.

Here is the email form:

http://www.patcamper.com/feedback.htm

Here is the dealership's 800 number: 1-800-842-4074 and its toll number: 937-236-4074

Here is a link to the Dayton, Oh Better Business Bureau:

http://www.dayton.bbb.org/

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Anyone know the fine print rules of being a visa merchant? My bet is that the rv dealership had a legal binding obligation when they took the deposit, they certainly had certainly a moral one.

Is the term "rv dealership and moral obligation" an oxymoron? :o

I wonder what Visa would have to say about this......

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It's my understanding an oral contract is legally binding (at least in Texas).

Problem is enforcement, since it's difficult to prove (your word against mine).

If you add to the mix a deposit via credit card, though, I would think you'd have all the evidence necessary to prove there was indeed a contract.

I think legally you could require specific performance (that they sell you the trailer), or that you could sue them for damages suffered from their breach of contract.

What Pat's Camper of Dayton, Ohio is apparently counting upon is that it's too much trouble to take 'em to court.

And I'm sure they're right. Might be worth asking a lawyer about, though; or at least worth telling all your friends!

:dance

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This is terrible. I'm really sorry, David, that this happened to you. I registered a complaint with the Dayton BBB just a minute ago. I also wrote a scathing email to the dealership. Thank you, Charles, for bringing this to our attention. David, PLEASE, contact a lawyer today and see what your rights are in this matter. Maybe you can get your trailer FREE after this! ;)

Nancy

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>>Better Business Bureau

Thanks Nancy! I also checked. Pat's Camper is not a BBB member. Gee, I'm not surprised.

I also will see to it that David finds a little bitty camper.

Talk about getting your hopes and dreams up ... and then having some shoddy business dash them into the ground!

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I mailed the lousy trader.
I think he will be impressed ;) ;) ;)

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there goes any future chance of selling rv's in Holland! ;)

(thanks Lex!)

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Here's the text of my love note to Pat's Camper Sales...

"The wonderful thing about the internet is that the shoddy business practices of unethical operators always come to the fore sooner or later. In the matter of your breach of contract with Mr David Koertge you may have gotten your $1999, but the bad press you're going to reap from that will be worth far, far more to your pocket book than a mere two grand. Luckily for us (too bad for you), RVers are a "connected community" and it will be our pleasure to see to it that we do our best to spread the word about Pat's Camper Sales. (We also spread the word about good outfits that deserve our business. Too bad you're not one of them.)"

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Thanks for emailing the dealer Robert. I'm hoping lots of folks email them ... or complain to the BBB ... or better yet, cut and paste my original post with details on other RV websites that y'all frequent so we can really let this place know we don't take kindly to them selling a trailer out from underneath one of our own!

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Actually this is illegal in OH to the best of my knowledge. So a couple of more things can be done. One file an actual criminal complaint, next file a formal complaint with the state attorney generals office, next hire a lawyer and sue them in front of a jury they will lose big time.

I know an rv dealer in OH and they say once a deposit is taken you have to sell the unit.

Just answering that suit will cost them more than the two grand. Hehe.

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:wave Hello Charles-
Just wanted to drop you a line to say that I agree with you that David was robbed. I came across the thread in the OPEN ROADS forum. I have sent an e-mail to the dealership explaining my disgust. If the dealers can't police themselves then it is up to the buyers to do it for them. I also will be sending e-mails to the manufactures that make the new lines they carry. The manufacturers don't like to hear things like this even when it doesn't concern one of their products. They still represent that dealer! All the extra pressures help. Their regional managers (manufacturers) will certainly let them (dealers) know if enough people log complaints about their tactics. Great job and good luck David!!!

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I also sent a short sweet note to the dealer in question here. I did mention I had been in his fair city twice in the last three months and seriously questioned if I felt I could risk doing any business of any type with his company. (Not quite those words)
I was wondering if you were buying a unit thru that company that had to be ordered from the factory. After you gave the deposit and waited the 2 to 6 months for the unit would you have the fear that as you were driving over to pick up the unit he would sell it to some one "with the full price on hand". Then I guess he could put you back on the waiting list and reorder a unit from the manufacturer again.
That would be a nice way for his customers to help him "floorplan" his dealership, at no cost to him.
I would strongly sugest David hire an attorney, one with a lot of teeth.

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Rick may have something! David should contact the issuer of his Visa Card. Perhaps if Pat loses the right to be a Visa dealer, it will make an impression on him and his wallet.

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I am very big on principle and one takes advantage of someone like this it really gets my dander up!

I have not yet e-mailed them because I just heard about this, but you know that I will. SAVE THE VISA RECIPT!!! And contact a lawyer! True you may not be able to get this trailer from the other people but a couple grand in the pocket would be nice to help you find a new one.

Not only the $1999 but the pain and suffering this ordeal has caused! Hey things like this are stressful and people who treat people like this need to be taught a lesson.

Can you just guess how many e-mails this company is going to get??? Man they are bumming... Say good-bye to that salesmans job!:weep

What is the main kind of RV does this company sell? I will also e-mail them. I agree all the pressure on this company the better for David!

Well Keep us all posted and thanks for informing us Charles!

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IF the dealer had taken the credit card number and NOT run it, then he might have gotten away with just a bad name for being unethical. However, he ran the card thereby proving that they had a deal. Once those credit card numbers were punched into the machine and the receipt was printed out, it was a deal. At the very least he should have had first right of refusal.

Hummmm. I wonder who closed out their credit card machine that night and reconciled it? They had to have something so that it balanced. I wonder what happend to that sheet of paper that had the word 'deposit' on it. Most certainly, they closed it out the night before....or else they would have voided the sale and not had to refund it.

Not very bright...not very bright at all.

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My best guess is that Mr. Eric might not have employment at Pat's Camper much longer. However, before he goes, I think that he should find David another Scamp equal to or better than the one that David put a deposit on. The price should be the same, $1999.

Mr. Eric...I think you'd better get real busy real fast.....these are very hard to come by.

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I would appreciate it if someone associated with this incident would keep us informed as to the progress, or lack there of, on this.
You never know, the dealer may realize he has a problem and step up to the plate like a gentleman. Or it may go the other way entirely.

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I just sent a nasty email to Pat's. Very poor business practices.

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I sent an e-mail to the dealer and the BBB this is the reply I got from the BBB:

We cannot accept third party complaints. Only the individual involved can
submit the complaint. Thank you for contacting the Better Business Bureau.

Eulondia Blakeman
Program Coordinator
Better Business Bureau
40 W. Fourth St., Ste. 1250
Dayton, OH 45402
(937) 222-1534, ext. 2012
E-mail: eblakeman@dayton.bbb.org
Web site: www.dayton.bbb.org


I have not as yet heard anything from the dealer.

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sorry every body for not responding quicker.my father is in very bad health and im helping my mother get to and from the hospital and work and staighten out my mom and dads cash problems.i appreciate all your responses and support.i called the dealership this morning and asked for the manager and was told he woulden be back to work til next tuesday.i figure talking to anybody else is a waste of my time. i have downloaded complant forms from the b.b.b. in dayton but im suppose to talk to the manager before you file complants.any way thats where im at on working on my problem.


thank you for your support david koertge