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Old 10-27-2019, 12:47 PM   #1
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Name: Mo
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Hiya

Hello, I was wondering....But could I live in a scamp, but not travel in it? Like just be stationary? I donít have an interest to travel (at least not now, plus I donít have a car lol) I say this cause I really want my own tiny home, and while YES I think the better option is to build or buy an actual tiny house, I was just wondering if this Is an option mostly cause the thought of building a tiny house has been stressing me out lately and I honestly rather just buy a travel trailer and be all set I guess. My one concern is that would a scamp survive the winters of New England, where I live....
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:22 PM   #2
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Scamp tiny house?

I have yet to see any two definitions of tiny house that agree. But a Scamp is no tiny house. I know of people have lived in them, but they are not well insulated and much of the water system is outside and subject to freezing. It can be done but you need to get water into it and have a place to dump the holding tanks. I hope the people that have done it will post here.
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Old 10-27-2019, 01:30 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Limoncello View Post
...My one concern is that would a scamp survive the winters of New England, where I live....
It would, you might not.

And you should have more than that one concern. For one example, where you set up would likely be subject to zoning and other regulations that would make it impossible to live in the camper in one place.

Sorry... it would be a waste of time to discuss but in sum, this is a bad bad idea.
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Old 10-27-2019, 02:15 PM   #4
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It would, you might not.

And you should have more than that one concern. For one example, where you set up would likely be subject to zoning and other regulations that would make it impossible to live in the camper in one place.

Sorry... it would be a waste of time to discuss but in sum, this is a bad bad idea.
yeah, I kinda figured lol....now that I know for sure it’s a bad idea, I wanna thank you for that ������ I’ll stick with my original plan to build a tiny house, no matter how exciting living in a camper seems
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:29 PM   #5
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If you found a campground that was open all year it may be possible if their bath houses were also open. But I doubt you would find a campground in Rhode Island that was open through the winter. One member here, William, whose profile name is Whoot, spent at least one winter, or most of it, in a Casita parked in a campground in New Jersey and he managed to overcome the obstacles of winter camping. On one of the TV shows about tiny houses a young couple had to decide between a Casita 17 or a tiny house that was built on a flatbed trailer. They picked the Casita. I would think even a tiny house would have cold weather plumbing problems as they are generally built on a trailer. Still the problems of how do you move it, where do you park it, and how to hook up to water, sewer, and electric. Don't forget about height on the tiny house as maximum clearance under most bridges is less than 14 feet, and many older bridges are less than that.
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Old 10-27-2019, 03:36 PM   #6
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Name: Bob Ruggles
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Take a look at some park models. Theyíre like a quite small mobile home and could be placed in a mobile home park or an rv park. I think probably would cost less than a tiny house. Worth a look anyway just for informational purposes.
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Old 10-27-2019, 04:09 PM   #7
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It would probably be a better idea, if you owned a small piece of land to put it on. One with power.

I took a sticky and set it permanently on my place next to where I was building a house. I brought power in for the new house, and put a pedistal next to the trailer, that also had a phone connection. Then I made a simple septic system just for the trailer. We lived in it while building and then used it as a spare bedroom for guests, and as a Christmas apartment for the family.

Our winters are not what you might see, here at 5,000 ft in Northern Nevada, but I winterized it each year and had no trouble.

Being a cheap sticky, with a slide-out, it was drafty and inefficient, but it served us well until I sold it to a friend.

Your biggest problem would probably be the lack of insulation. Heat tape on the pipes and skirting can help with that, but the sides and the roof need it to.

You would probbaly be better off with an insulated trailer instead of a Scamp. Why is it important that it is a Scamp?
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Old 10-27-2019, 05:14 PM   #8
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Tbh I just really liked them but I thought the insulation was good in them? (They boast R15) what I really want is an Oliver legacy elite but those are super expensive
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Limoncello View Post
(They boast R15)

Apparently, as posted here several times, the actual R value is closer to .15 because the insulation doesn't work without an air space.
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:28 PM   #10
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Hiya

Yeah. Unfortunately Scampís R15 claim was made without reading the installation manual. It has been much discussed and largely debunked.

Realistically thereís not much you can accomplish with only a quarter inch of anything. In my opinion the foil bubble/marine headliner sandwich works as well as any of the practical alternatives for three-season use, but not for real winter use. Nope.

I lived in a true four season Holiday Rambler aluminum/composite trailer for several years in a climate with real but not severe winters (average lows in the teens). It was comfortable, but still a utility hog compared to a properly insulated house. My employer was footing the propane and electric bill.
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Old 10-27-2019, 06:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
Apparently, as posted here several times, the actual R value is closer to .15 because the insulation doesn't work without an air space.
And not only that.. the walls could be insulated to R1-1000 but much of the wall space is still leaky single pane windows. This is not a cold weather camper for 99% of people, and esp not for northern US winters. I dont think that hardly anyone who has owned one would want to live in it full time, eso in the north.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:15 AM   #12
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While I read most of the comments above, and found none to disagree with, I will say "It is entirely possible". You just need to know what you are getting into.

With the use of alternative water supply (jugs), and disposal (again, jugs); water heating alternative (stove, warm water transferred to garden sprayer for pressurized, warm water; Alternate toilet arrangement (chemical or composting); Added window insulation (anything from plain bubble wrap or Reflectix to solid foam panels, to heavy insulated drapes); Added floor insulation (skirting around trailer, heavy throw rugs/bath mats, exercise/playroom interlocking foam tiles): and soft, pliable, rope insulation to seal any drafts you find (around the fridge is the big one for me), and a rolled up towel to hinder the almost inevitable cold breeze at the bottom of the door; A Scamp can be totally livable, even in quite extreme temperatures.

Add to the above, lowered expectations for indoor temperature, warm clothing layers, Down booties for the still cold floors when you are immobile, and a good broom to sweep off accumulated snow from the roof once in a while. Also make sure to have alternate electric sources (shore power, generator, solar panels, second battery); plenty of spare propane tanks, and keep them filled; at least two heat sources (one to use, one back-up); new, working carbon monoxide and smoke detectors, along with a working propane detector.

Obviously, depending on your situation, not ALL of the above are totally essential (some are), but in my experience, I would keep them all in mind as ways to deal with extreme cold in a Scamp. And, I would say, they would make the total experience very acceptable for me. Mind you, I have spent a year living out of a backpack, walking across the USA right through winter when I was younger, and camping outdoors at least 90% of the time. Comfort is relative to expectations. I could be very comfortable in a Scamp during a New England winter.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:42 AM   #13
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Hiya

True, of course. The OP was comparing it to a tiny home. The lifestyle you suggest for the Scamp would be radically different from living in a tiny home. I was reminded that I once lived for 10 months and one winter in a Scamp-sized sticky with no plumbing. I wonít bore with the details except to mention an outhouse at 5 am in the dead of winter is really cold!

How about something in between? Like a used Bigfoot four-season unit? It wouldnít be as energy efficient as a well-constructed tiny home, but itíd be way more comfortable than a Scamp. You can find a decent used larger BIgfoot for around half the cost of a tiny home.

More important, when this life stage is over, itíll be easier to sell than a tiny house and return a much greater portion of your purchase price.

The problem will still be where to park it. When I lived full time in the Holiday Rambler, parking and utilities were provided at modest cost by my employer as a recruitment perk. At market rates it wouldnít have been financially viable.
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:56 AM   #14
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Before We retired we had bought a house 2 hrs away for retirement and still owned a home where I was still working.
We sold that house and bought a 2006 38' 5th wheel Travel Supreme (a very nice unit, by the way). We had it delivered for us as I am not into owning a big truck.
We paid $17,000 for it and when I retired and moved permanently to the new house we sold it for $15000.
The drawback is all of these RV are relatively inefficient in heating and cooling. In the summer the electric bill for the A/C was $400 a month!
However still a "sticky" bought to resell would be cheaper and provide better space and efficiency than a Scamp and a lot cheaper that a Bigfoot or Oliver etc.
We have done this a couple of times the first time with a 26' Jayco 5th wheel.
By wife loved the travel Supreme for it's layout and easy cleaning. It also had a washer dryer that helped out too.
I had a friend who let us park on his airport so we did not have to pay rent for the space. If we had to pay park rent and the power bill we would have been close to the cost of and apartment, easily
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:29 AM   #15
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Hiya

Cheaper stickies may not have four season upgrades. Dual pane windows are one good indication a trailer is designed for year-round use.

Yes, new Bigfoots are very expensive, but Iíve seen 8-10 year-old Bigfoot 21ís and even an occasional 25í for around $20K, and 17.5íers for under $20K. You donít get as much space for the money compared to a sticky, but I think they would be a safer bet from a depreciation standpoint.

Smaller is also better from a utility consumption standpoint, assuming similar four-season construction. Molded fiberglass is likely somewhat tighter when it comes to air infiltration, but there are still all those pesky vents and hatches. I agree that if youíre not careful, utility costs can eat your lunch.
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:25 AM   #16
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Buy a pre-depreciated one.
the depreciation slows down once they get older (and start the wooden frame work rotting from the roof leaks
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:06 AM   #17
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Exactly! But I still think a pre-depreciated Bigfoot is a better financial decision for four-season use than a pre-depreciated SOB, and less likely to be pre-leaking!
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Old 10-28-2019, 04:07 PM   #18
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Sometimes the cash upfront makes a difference.
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Old 10-29-2019, 01:44 AM   #19
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A Bigfoot 17.5 is definitely going to be one of the best TTs you can buy for cold weather, if not the best. Still not like a house, but at least it's R-7 or so and a small surface area. Escape is about R-1.5 to R-2 in practice with all the thermal options (going by net heat input vs temperature, but the error bars are pretty big on that one). Scamp is probably R-0.5 or so. Oliver's a weird case in that they're probably about R-2 to R-5 (no idea how well two opposing radiant barriers will do, but at least they have an air gap) but the space the water pipes are in is only partially conditioned and insulated, so they're better at keeping the humans comfortable than Escapes but worse at keeping the pipes unfrozen.

The fiberglass trailers also tend to do a bit better in practice compared to stick-built trailers compared to the R-value on paper. Less air leaking, less thermal bridging from the framing, and fewer insulation gaps along seams and in corners.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:35 AM   #20
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It all depends on the amount of money available for the task and is there financing to be done?
In one way if there is a loan then it is a lot like rent, but you do build equity.
Buying a more capable trailer that would be better insulated and 4 season might be one good option as it can probably be more easily resold when the need is done, or can be used for it's original purpose of traveling.
Having done the 5th wheel temporary housing thing I can say it worked out well for us and with some skirting might not have too high a utility cost, but here in the South the summer and the heat and humidity did run up a pretty big bill.
For heat the propane use might be pretty high as well up north.
As we have traveled around the country we see that perhaps the majority of the "campers" in various RV parks are full timers no a days.
Depending on the dollars to spend I still think that a pre-depreciated 5th wheel provides a lot of space for the money as they lose value relatively quickly.
A heater water hose would be necessary and I don't know about the availability a heated sewer hose might be necessary as well.
There are the so called park models available as well without the liquid storage tanks that might need to be freeze protected.
It all has to do with the conservation of resources and space needs.
I don't think that a Scamp is the answer for cold weather as the insulation leaves a lot to be desired, especially in the cold as they just suck the heat out, especially at night.
My modified Scamp is OK down fairly cold with the 9000 BTU heat pump, but when sleeping next to the wall it is pretty chilly there.
The only real reason to contemplate a Scamp for full time (especially in the winter ) would be money conservation as far as I am concerned.
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