Is newer better?

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by eggless

So, given an option, what would people here go with...spend more for something newer and more options (and built with better material?) or go with about the half the price for something a little more rustic, but still perfectly useable?

If you want any one of the Legacy brands still being manufactured today-

• Scamp
• Casita
• Trillium

... I advise getting the newest one you can afford if you want it ready-to-use.

Of course some brands are recent and don't have many used units available. Escape built their first trailer in 2001 according to their website, they're the most likely to have used 17' units available... their other sizes are more recent. Parkliner and Lil' Snoozy are brand new and it is rare to find a used one.

I personally like "Quirky" stuff. Not so much old as Vintage. Things that don't serve you as much as you take care of them. Things with history... Patina... and usually a lower purchase price, but a higher long term investment. That's why I fell in love with a 35 year old Fiber Stream.

[Francesca Knowles]

Well, I s'pose it depends on experience and expectations more than anything else. Newer trailers have more in the bells-and-whistles department, though I'm unconvinced that "materials have improved". My husband spent his entire working life in the Forest products industry and will, if you let him, go to great lengths to decry the deterioration of wood products, for example!

For myself, all I wanted when I decided to move from a tent to a ready-to-camp setting was a clean dry trailer that I could stand up in. After that I wanted a stove, fridge, comfortable sleeping place, and heat. I got all that with my 1978 Trillium and remain totally satisfied with it.

It came to me in good shape, though I've of course made "improvements"...I reckon I've put a couple of thousand into it TOPS in addition to the purchase price of $1400.00. A major expense was the addition of an honest-to-Pete pulldown awning just like the Big Boys have. I wouldn't be without it!

Please do keep in mind that there's a WIDE gulf between "used" and "beater" when you're looking/conversing. The former is ready-to-camp, and the latter is needs-to-be-rebuilt.

Your choice!

Francesca

[Roger C H]

David B in post #16,
Are you aware that Trilliums are now built in Florence, AZ? Just stopped by the factory the other day and Tom had about 5 15' units in the building and about the same outside. They can be had with toilets. Tom says that he is building more 15' units now. They look sweet to me.

We are now in Apache Junction until next Friday, Happy Days RV Park, site 113.

[Alf S.]

Hi: All... Nothing wrong with new vs. old as long as the new mfg's. learn by the errors of the past ways. Some new materials are far superior to the oldies and some aren't. Prices have a lot more zeros in them but no one today, except me, works for 1970's wages. When first married my weekly allowance would buy a 24 of Canada's finest brews. Now I can get a six pack!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[floyd]

We refitted a couple of older used trailers before deciding on our new one.
That way we learned what we wanted and helped to pay for it!
Eggy-Sue (the pull-it surprize) has proven to be for us the perfect trailer for nine years now....With a constant improvement program of course!
She's a 2004 Scamp13 Deluxe front bath.

[Mike Magee]

The older the trailer, the more chance of needed repairs. Just like any piece of machinery. Things loosen, deteriorate, wear out, etc. Hot water heater burner can get dirty or temperamental. Window seals can start to leak. Water lines can spring a leak. Pumps can quit. Thus the value depreciates and prices decline with age. "You get what you pay for," the saying goes. On top of that, with a used one you run the risk that someone is unaware of or, worse yet, covering up/lying about problems. Whereas with new you get a warranty to cover problems for a while.

[Cricket]

Thanks for all the info and opinions! Couple of additional questions though.... The older ones have marine plywood and the newer ones have "resin soaked OSB"....what exactly is OSB? Isn't it just chip board? Is it better than marine grade plywood? The guy at Scamp indicated that the newer floors were better....I would think that plywood would be better than chipboard for a floor...what does the resin do? I think we will go with a newer one....and I think we have found it...just need to get to it to take look.

[Carol H]

OSB stands for Oriented strand board. Its a little different from wood-scrap boards as it uses long strips of wood which are put in place strategically rather than randomly.Chip board is made out of slivers or chips of wood The resin Scamp uses to cover the OSB is fiberglass resin - to prevent water penetration a bit better than marine plywood does. Keep in mind that they have been using the OSB with resin coating for at least 20 years or more ;-) My 92 has an OSB resin coated floor and it shows no signs of water damage.

[rabbit]

Oriented Strand Board. The "oriented" aspect makes reference to an attempt to arrange the long fibers of wood for the optimum resistance to load or impact. I do not know if OSB can match the impact resistance and load carrying capacity of plywood, which altho certainly an "engineered" product, takes the long grain (fiber) strength of wood and avoids the cross-grain (inter-fiber) weakness of wood by arranging the grain of successive plys or laminations at a right angle to the previous. The size of frame bays in a trailer frame might influence the degree to which it deflects under load but no doubt it's strong enuf to do the job or Scamp wouldn't be using it. The expression "resin-soaked" presumably refers to a Scamp-applied epoxy or polyester resin which, without the addition of a reinforcing fabric (fiberglass), can't improve the strength but certainly can improve impermeability to moisture. In the broadest possible sense, I'd say that marine ply is a stronger material but perhaps not cost-effective for Scamp's bottom line. Roundabout way to say that the low-price spread is what you're going to get with "new and improved" and it's more than likely adequate to the job.

jack

[Donna D.]

I've been laffing reading this entire thread. Shame on Scamp to "assume" ANY trailer NEEDS to have a floor replaced. My 25 year old Scamp has a perfect floor.

IT'S ALL about maintenace. Just ask the sticky folks. I've seen 5 year old all molded trailers that are trashed and 30 year old all molded trailers that are perfect. Don't ASSUME anything based on age.

All the appliances in my oldy trailer work just as they came from the factory. You wouldn't ignore a leaky roof or plumbing problems in your sticks n bricks home. And since I consider my TT the third biggest asset I own, I take care of it too.

I'll say it again... IT'S ALL ABOUT MAINTENANCE, NOT AGE.

[rabbit]

Sooner is good! I wish I had quicker wits and a shorter wind.

jack

[deryk]

Like everything in life its all in how it was taken care of. Im guessing alot of travel trailers are not well taken care of and that's why they start to rot away.

I want to take care of my ParkLiner, from the begining, so regularly inspecting the underside of the caravan is going to happen and my flooring is marine plywood with spar varnish over it,well maybe I will add a fresh coat... check for any rust and treat it before it advances.... keep doing that and it should last. Park it out back and ignore it for 10 years (well ok if it was a stick built trailer) then expect it to fall apart.

deryk

[accrete]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

... IT'S ALL ABOUT MAINTENANCE, NOT AGE.

Sounds like sound lifestyle advice also : ) At a healthy and happy 55 years young... I made that connection cuz my _job_ is Health & Safety Advocate at the local Costco for a crew of 160 peeps. Fun stuff every day, since i sort of created the position and have been living it with the crew for the past 20 years.

Rambling as i pass tangently through
Thom

[accrete]

Originally Posted by deryk

Like everything in life its all in how it was taken care of. . .check for any rust and treat it before it advances...

When Cari & I got our A-Liner home from the dealership back in 2009 (since sold) the first thing i did _that weekend_ was lightly sand and apply two coats of a product called Por-15. We sold the trailer in 2011 and the buyers crawled under the trailer and stated that the frame looked brand new...and it truly did! No matter what trailer i bring home, unless the frame is aluminum...will get a couple coats of Por-15.

Cheers,
Thom

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by eggless

Thanks for all the info and opinions! Couple of additional questions though.... The older ones have marine plywood and the newer ones have "resin soaked OSB"....what exactly is OSB? Isn't it just chip board? Is it better than marine grade plywood? The guy at Scamp indicated that the newer floors were better....I would think that plywood would be better than chipboard for a floor...what does the resin do? I think we will go with a newer one....and I think we have found it...just need to get to it to take look.

Resin painted on OSB waterproofs the surface of the floor, whereas marine-grade plywood is itself put together with 100% waterproof adhesives. Also, here quoting from this link:

What is Marine-grade plywood?
Marine-grade plywood is a specially designed panel made entirely of Douglas-fir or Western Larch. The grade of all plies of veneer is B or better, which means it may have knots, but no knotholes. The panels are sanded on both faces, and are also available with Medium Density Overlay (MDO) or High Density Overlay (HDO) faces. The maximum core-gap size permitted is 1/8 inch. Its exposure durability rating is EXTERIOR and the glue used is a fully waterproof structural adhesive. It is considered a “premium” panel grade for use in situations where these characteristics are required, i.e., for boat hulls and other marine applications where bending is involved.

Below are some images illustrating some of the differences between OSB and plywood.

Francesca

[deryk]

And it depends on what kind of plywood that is. Home Depot exterior ply is not the same as high quality exterior plywood from a real lumberyard. They use different kinds of glue... and marine plywood is even betterwhich is why it is very costly. Im not a fan of the presswood.

deryk

[Carol H]

Francesca, can we safely assume that the bottom photo of OSB after soaking was not a resin protected OSB that Scamp uses but OSB right off the shelf?

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Carol H

Francesca, can we safely assume that the bottom photo of OSB after soaking was not a resin protected OSB that Scamp uses but OSB right off the shelf?

Well, sure...but unless the mfr. is coating the whole sheet including the edges with the resin, I think the result would be the same.

And maybe Scamp is fully coating it! Atmospheric moisture in our non-breathing trailers can do nearly as much damage as "intrusive" moisture, after all...

Francesca

[Cathy P.]

I am guessing that it sort of mirrors any sort of "fixer upper" project when you buy something, not necessarily older, but not well cared for in that you can end up not liking it so much if it keeps costing you money and time. A nice clean and well-kept up anything, even if not newer, is a real treasure to find but takes time. I would spend the most that I could but still hold some part of my budget back for "surprises" should they arise. I can tell you from past experience that you want something "clean" and beware of odors because a lot of them can't be eliminated and I don't care what anyone says, you can cover them and they creep back out!

[GPJ]

OSB and Plywood each have their own benefits - I've looked at it in the home construction and marine industries and this is what I've found.

OSB is cheaper and its properties are more predictable due to a lack of voids (if you take apart a sheet of standard plywood, you will find that the good veneers are on the surface, and the interior ones have knots and patches). Looking at sheets of the same nominal thickness, the OSB is usually a little thinner than plywood as the voids in plywood require it to be made slightly thicker to meet the same spec. On paper, OSB is pretty darn good.

The whole story changes somewhat in the presence of water. First, the wood in both plywood and OSB will absorb water and swell (interestingly, plywood will actually wet out faster than OSB because the long sheets of veneer will transport water throughout whereas in OSB, the water flow is hindered by the resin between the wood wafers). The big difference is that plywood will shrink back pretty much to its original size as it dries, whereas OSB puffs up more, and stays puffed when it dries. Even worse is MDF - it will swell up and stay several times its size when soaked.

The key to using OSB and plywood for that matter is to treat the edges of all panels, and to treat edges after each cut - to prevent the fastest way that water is absorbed (through the end grain). Of course treating the face of the panel is also very important. If a trailer manufacturer treats both faces and all edges of a panel (either plywood or OSB ) then it should last a very long time.

In practice, I tend to prefer plywood over OSB for pretty much everything if the budget allows. IT is much nicer to work with too. Even better and many times more expensive is marine grade ply with a BS 1088 rating (this is a British Standard, but used internationally in the marine industry). That way you know it is a quality wood (usually mahogany - and usually the type is specified) and a true waterproof resin. But even then, treat the edges!