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Old 03-31-2019, 07:39 PM   #21
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Here is an interesting article on the tow rating and how hard it was to obtain and why the Diesel is likely to be lower.

https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering...ing-1833657453
That article really speaks to the constraints that designers operate under. I worked with someone who was responsible for putting an instrument package in a missle. Volume and weight allowances were always tightly constrained; everyone "needed" more than they were given.

They needed to keep the instrument package cool during the ascent and no one could figure out how to include an air conditioner within their allotment.

As I heard the story from an older engineer, it was one of the younger engineers who finally looked at the problem from the dimension of time; they only needed to keep the package cool for a short period, until it was up in space where excess heat was no longer an issue.

They subsequently used a bottle of gas and set it up to release and chill the instrument package during the launch, which was all that was really required.

The guy who told me the story was very self-effacing. A real gentleman, he gave the young guy his due. Maybe even more, who knows.
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:40 PM   #22
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Here is an interesting article on the tow rating and how hard it was to obtain and why the Diesel is likely to be lower.

https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering...ing-1833657453
JD,
Thanks for posting that excellent article.
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:48 PM   #23
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Looks like a mini-Hummer short box to me.
I've owned a Jeep Grand Cherokee Chief and a Fiat 128 Sport Coupe.
I'd have a lot more money in retirement if I hadn't owned either.
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Old 03-31-2019, 10:35 PM   #24
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Looks like a mini-Hummer short box to me.
I've owned a Jeep Grand Cherokee Chief and a Fiat 128 Sport Coupe.
I'd have a lot more money in retirement if I hadn't owned either.
How do two old discontinued car models from the '70s, have anything to do with the new Gladiator?
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Old 03-31-2019, 11:36 PM   #25
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How do two old discontinued car models from the '70s, have anything to do with the new Gladiator?

Two crappy companies that sold poor quality vehicles are now under one umbrella - Fiat Chrysler. FC currently slaps a 'Jeep' grill on a Fiat and sells it as Jeep ( Liberty? i think ).

The vehicles I cited may be from the '70s, but so is the company that sells Gladiator.

BTW FC just closed down their minivan plant in eastern Canada ( sales down 70 per cent ), pretty much the same time as Toyota opened their new state-of-the-art RAV4 plant nearby to meet demand.
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Old 04-01-2019, 12:53 AM   #26
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Sounds like so much brand bashing to me. The same accusations could be applied to any of the other major brands too, but I see no use in listing the obvious. Nearly a million Jeeps were sold last year and people love them. I have one too, and no, it is not a warmed over 1970's Fiat. The idea of that makes me laugh. It's no garage queen either, as just today it was up at over 7,500' elevation plowing through mud and snow with a pleasant 200 mile highway section on the way up and back. Averaged over 20 MPG for the trip and passed at least twenty vehicles that could not make it up the trail we were on.

While I agree that 70's Fiats were a poor choice of vehicle, it's also true that they and Chrysler had nothing to do with Jeep at that time. Times have changed. My Wrangler has not been perfect, but it is excellent and will do what no other readily available vehicle will.

It's probably better to let the Gladiator tell it's own tale, rather than blaming it for your retirement deficiencies before it even goes on sale. Not sure how it's terrible design and terrible track record, based on a two terrible companies, are already known.
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:52 AM   #27
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True, but if you look at the latest JD Power 2019 US Vehicle Dependability Study (based on 3 years of ownership), Fiat is at the bottom, Dodge is 4th from the bottom, Ram is 5th from the bottom, and Jeep is 8th from the bottom.

Chrysler, oddly enough, is only a little below the industry average, and is tied with Honda(!).

Scroll about halfway down for the graph.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ility-studyvds
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Old 04-01-2019, 08:20 AM   #28
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For me it looks like I am watching a WW2 movie or a rerun of MASH
The retro look does not justify the price plus if I go off-roading it’s on foot
Not a fan of mechanically destroying nature
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:14 AM   #29
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Yeah, if you don't go off road much of the attraction is gone IMO, unless you just dig the retro vibe.

And if you do go off road, get the Rubicon version, it has many worthwhile upgrades for off road use (stuff that most Jeepers spend money to upgrade anyway).
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:36 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
BTW FC just closed down their minivan plant in eastern Canada ( sales down 70 per cent ), pretty much the same time as Toyota opened their new state-of-the-art RAV4 plant nearby to meet demand.
I see where they cut one of three shifts due to combined parts shortage and sales of the minivan segment slowing, but didn't see where they are closing the plant down?
Interesting, since the JD Power report a few comments above lists the FCA Pacifica as the most reliable minivan, above Toyota.
Another interesting tidbit is that Consumer reports shows the 2018 Jeep Wrangler either better than average, or much better than average in every listed category scored, but gave the same car a "worse than average" overall score???
At least the owners seem to love them.
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:58 AM   #31
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Radar1,

The older Consumer Report I read on the Wrangler, a quite a while back, where they gave it a low score, was based on how it drove compared to cars and other vehicles. I laughed because of course it drives differently, it's intended purpose does not match the function of a car or minivan. Higher, short wheelbase, large tires, stiff suspension, all added up to make it a poor car-like experience. All things that make it better for it's intended use. And that make it fun to drive.

After reading other of their opinions based on bias or pre-determined outcomes regardless of facts, I wrote them off.
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Old 04-01-2019, 10:01 AM   #32
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You're right. They are axing one shift which means 1,500 jobs gone.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:12 AM   #33
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Radar1,

The older Consumer Report I read on the Wrangler, a quite a while back, where they gave it a low score, was based on how it drove compared to cars and other vehicles. I laughed because of course it drives differently, it's intended purpose does not match the function of a car or minivan. Higher, short wheelbase, large tires, stiff suspension, all added up to make it a poor car-like experience. All things that make it better for it's intended use. And that make it fun to drive.

After reading other of their opinions based on bias or pre-determined outcomes regardless of facts, I wrote them off.
Many times (this applies to everything CR does, not just vehicles) the features or attributes they include in their rankings are things I don't care about. Definitely gotta dig into their ranking system to know if they are of any use to you.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:17 AM   #34
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Here is an interesting article on the tow rating and how hard it was to obtain and why the Diesel is likely to be lower.

https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering...ing-1833657453
As noted in the article, the author was an engineer at Jeep during the development of the latest Wrangler. Something not noted in the article is that he has a fetish for old rusted out Jeeps that he has piled around his home. He is a good writer and has some interesting insights into vehicle ownership that remind me of my own days of driving questionable vehicles with rusted out floorpans, bald tires, self igniting stereo installations, and exhaust systems made primarily of JB Weld.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:03 PM   #35
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He is a good writer and has some interesting insights into vehicle ownership that remind me of my own days of driving questionable vehicles with rusted out floorpans, bald tires, self igniting stereo installations, and exhaust systems made primarily of JB Weld.
Yes, I like this about Jalopnik, it reminds me of those spaghetti days without having to actually experience them all over again!
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Old 04-01-2019, 03:56 PM   #36
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The pricing configurator is now active on the Jeep website. Looks like a Rubicon with the bells and whistles I’d want will list north of $55K.
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Old 04-01-2019, 04:17 PM   #37
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The pricing configurator is now active on the Jeep website. Looks like a Rubicon with the bells and whistles I’d want will list north of $55K.
Not surprised since a 4 door hardtop auto Rubi is over $50K MSRP.

There is a tow package Gladiator that has the Rubicon Dana 44 4.10 axles which would be handy if you want to build your own. Not sure what that saves you on price.

Quote:
The tow package is available on the Sport and Sport S trims and includes 4.10 rear axle gearing, 240-amp alternator, heavy duty four-wheel disc antilock brakes, Class IV receiver hitch, heavy duty Dana 44 wide front and rear axles, DRL system, heavy duty engine cooling, trailer hitch zoom with the rear back up camera, and molded-in-color fender flares.
Here is a good review from Expedition Portal
https://expeditionportal.com/the-jee...-fuel-economy/
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Old 04-01-2019, 04:37 PM   #38
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Not surprised since a 4 door hardtop auto Rubi is over $50K MSRP.

There is a tow package Gladiator that has the Rubicon Dana 44 4.10 axles which would be handy if you want to build your own. Not sure what that saves you on price.



Here is a good review from Expedition Portal
https://expeditionportal.com/the-jee...-fuel-economy/
Thanks for the info and links Steve. The big things for me with the Rubicon are the front and rear lockers and 33" tires. I priced a Sport "S' with the 4.10 tow package, limited slip, and most of the other options I put on the Rubi and the price delta was about the same as the difference in their base. I really like the rear locker on my Tacoma and its gotten me out of some places I shouldn't have gone. Need to get my hands on a Gladiator and see where it goes from there.

Al
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:31 PM   #39
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Thanks for the info and links Steve. The big things for me with the Rubicon are the front and rear lockers and 33" tires. I priced a Sport "S' with the 4.10 tow package, limited slip, and most of the other options I put on the Rubi and the price delta was about the same as the difference in their base. I really like the rear locker on my Tacoma and its gotten me out of some places I shouldn't have gone. Need to get my hands on a Gladiator and see where it goes from there.

Al
Al,

When I bought my JK Rubicon, I specifically asked about the limited slip rear diff and was told it had it. But my research said otherwise.
Further research revealed that it uses the traction control system to simulate a mechanical limited slip. It works very well, but it's not a limited slip. However, it does have the electric locker. So, it's an open diff with en E-Locker. The Willys model JK came with 3.73 gears and mechanical limited slip.

Apparently, the new Gladiator uses the Dana 44 rear, like the JK and I'll bet it's the same setup.

The front axle is said to be a 44 also, but is much smaller in diameter. Turns out they converted a Dana 30 to a so called, "44" by putting the 44 gears and axles in it. So, no stronger against bending loads, but tougher gears and axles.

If someone wants to order a Gladiator, it would be best to research out the actual specs and know going in what they are getting.

The Pentastar V6 is well suited to 4.10 gears as the power band doesn't come on until at least 60 MPH in 6th gear. I wish it had more low end torque, but the gearing makes up for it, and they get good mileage.

I have read that the Rubicon Gladiator does, and that it does not, get the 4-1 transfer case gearing. So we'll see. But unless someone wants to do some serious rock climbing, the 4-1 gear is really too low for normal use in 4Lo. When I'm out playing in 4lo and then pick up the pace a bit, I find myself in 6th gear and still not covering much ground. So I stop and shift to 4hi and then back to 4lo at the next tricky part. It's good in extreme rock climbing, but that's about it.
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:00 PM   #40
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The Rubicon actually gets a lower tow rating of 7000 pounds I believe, due to the bigger tires, because of the weight, or maybe it is the slightly lower final drive ratio that comes with bigger tires.

On a separate note, that whole discussion of cooling issues and the tow rating would make me think twice about putting a big light bar on top of the front bumper.
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