Lil Snoozy has closed shop

[redbarron55]

The popular FRG trailers have backlogs because the owners limit the number of employees to 50 or less to avoid having to provide benefits required of those companies with more than 50.
They could build and deliver more if they hired more people.
By now Scamp and Casita should know their cost of sales and my guess it that another manufacturer would have a problem producing a similar product for much, if any, less.
I am sorry that the people who paid deposits have lost their money.
That money was mishandled and probably built those trailers delivered and the owners and managers of Lil Snoozy have none to recover in the courts.
The depositors are unsecured creditors and sit pretty low on the totem pole.
So far there is no motion to file for bankruptcy so what we are looking at is basically skipping out on a debt...

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by floyd

Funny you chose the most stable Fiberglass manufacturer who only asks $500 down and has a history of returning that deposit on request to be "out of the question".
Also , they have been in business longer than almost everybody else combined... coming up on 50years.
That's through several major economic downturns... even 30% inflation in the 70s.
They also continued to produce ordered trailers while customers waited in line, those are not "back orders", or supplier problems.

You forgot to mention Floyd that scamp also managed to recover fairly quickly from a major fire at the plant not so long ago - maybe 8 years or so ago.

OP also doesn’t seem to realize that Escape just a short time ago also had a wait time if much LONGER than the 3 months they indicated. If I recall correctly they even stopped taking orders on some models for a time. None of that was due to mismanagement it was simple due to an overwhelming demand for their trailers. They simple could not keep up to demand even though they had greatly expanded their manufacturing facilities a few times over a fairly short time frame.

Have to agree with you that wait times for delivery would be a poor indicator as to the viability and or longevity prospects of a company.

[jerrybob]

Originally Posted by gordon2

One thing I found interesting in that article was the statement:

A reasonable threshold for considering legal representation is $1,000.

Perhaps all the people who made a substantial deposit (well over $1,000) maybe should consider getting together and retaining an attorney in a sort-of class action.

BTW, the link is about bankruptcy in general, not the Lil Snoozy case.

Lawyers are expensive but depending what you are out...sometimes worth it. I am aware the article was on bankruptcy.....that's why I posted it. Hope people get their money back but the process will be drawn out and frustrating.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Carol H

You forgot to mention Floyd that scamp also managed to recover fairly quickly from a major fire at the plant not so long ago - maybe 8 years or so ago. ....

13 years and a few months.
https://www.brainerddispatch.com/con...y-burns-backus

Originally Posted by jerrybob

Lawyers are expensive but depending what you are out...sometimes worth it...

If they get an attorney on a contingency fee arrangement then it should cost nothing unless he or she can recovery some money. If its a legit bankruptcy, then maybe there is no money, and if that is clearly and obviously the case then an attorney is unlikely to take the case on contingency.

On the other hand, there is a lot of money involved with all the deposits, and if it is straight out theft, and some large percentage of the money is being hidden somewhere, then an attorney might be of assistance.

In either case it wont hurt to talk to an attorney as long as they are willing to on contingency basis or as a complimentary consultation.

[Doctor Harold]

Kieth said in post #17 and post #18 that Lil Snoozy has filed Chapter 7 Bankruptcy.

Assets, if any, will be distributed by the bankruptcy court, so hiring your own lawyer will not improve your situation, and will only serve to gift half of your deposit to the attorney if one should take your case.

Contact the court and make sure you have documentation and get in line. I don't know where people paying deposits fall in the food chain, but secured assets and payroll certainly come before deposits, which, even though it sounds like you were prepaying for a physical trailer, it's unlikely that is how your contract was written, and I doubt there will be enough money to trickle down to those approximately 45 people who paid deposits.

Refer to Kieth's post #17 for contact info.

[jerrybob]

FYI....came across this on the internet....doesn't sound good for those with deposits.

Nearly 50 face losing deposits as Lil Snoozy abruptly closes shop | The Small Trailer Enthusiast

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by jerrybob

FYI....came across this on the internet....doesn't sound good for those with deposits.

Nearly 50 face losing deposits as Lil Snoozy abruptly closes shop | The Small Trailer Enthusiast

We've gotten to the point where a "news source" quotes anonymous people who have posted stuff they heard, or suspect might come true, on internet sites. And then, we post links to that "news source".

I'm not commenting on Snoozy or this site, or jerrybob. I'm just sad that "news" has come to this.

[Spongelander]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

The popular FRG trailers have backlogs because the owners limit the number of employees to 50 or less to avoid having to provide benefits required of those companies with more than 50.
They could build and deliver more if they hired more people.
By now Scamp and Casita should know their cost of sales and my guess it that another manufacturer would have a problem producing a similar product for much, if any, less.
I am sorry that the people who paid deposits have lost their money.
That money was mishandled and probably built those trailers delivered and the owners and managers of Lil Snoozy have none to recover in the courts.
The depositors are unsecured creditors and sit pretty low on the totem pole.
So far there is no motion to file for bankruptcy so what we are looking at is basically skipping out on a debt...

I don't buy that. I think it's much more likely that they have found a comfortable niche (place to hide, actually) in the market, and don't follow the grow-or-be-eaten mantra that most of American business is subject to (particularly publicly-traded firms).
Scaling a business up 2x or 3x takes a huge amount of planning, both for capacity (material, facilities, and labor) and a large infusion of working capital. If this is done with debt, one now has a huge monthly interest bill they must pay, or lose control of the company. It is much harder to scale back down.
I think it has little to nothing to do with providing benefits.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by jerrybob

FYI....came across this on the internet....doesn't sound good for those with deposits.

Nearly 50 face losing deposits as Lil Snoozy abruptly closes shop | The Small Trailer Enthusiast

You also could have come across that article by reading post number 126 in this thread.

And as I mentioned in a reply to that post, the comments section is rather interesting also.

Now I understand that all this is nothing more than rumors, but one comment to that article was from a person who says that he talked to Mickle's attorney and was told that, "Funds will be distributed to those who lost deposits first." That seems to go against the opinion on many non-attorneys here, and it sure would be nice if it turns out to be true.

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Spongelander

I don't buy that. I think it's much more likely that they have found a comfortable niche (place to hide, actually) in the market, and don't follow the grow-or-be-eaten mantra that most of American business is subject to (particularly publicly-traded firms).
Scaling a business up 2x or 3x takes a huge amount of planning, both for capacity (material, facilities, and labor) and a large infusion of working capital. If this is done with debt, one now has a huge monthly interest bill they must pay, or lose control of the company. It is much harder to scale back down.
I think it has little to nothing to do with providing benefits.

I agree. Since two of the major manufacturers of fiberglass trailers (Escape & Bigfoot) are based in Canada, the under 50 employees doesn't hold for them...

[Jon in AZ]

I think that information (50 employee threshold) came from a forum member who had actually spoken with someone from the Eveland family at Scamp and posted a couple of years ago. It was in the context of the growing backlog at Scamp and the expansion at Escape. So, it may apply to Scamp but no one else. It falls in the category of “I had it from a friend who heard it from a friend,” and while it is certainly plausible, it should not be over-generalized even if true.

[redbarron55]

Originally Posted by Spongelander

I don't buy that. I think it's much more likely that they have found a comfortable niche (place to hide, actually) in the market, and don't follow the grow-or-be-eaten mantra that most of American business is subject to (particularly publicly-traded firms).
Scaling a business up 2x or 3x takes a huge amount of planning, both for capacity (material, facilities, and labor) and a large infusion of working capital. If this is done with debt, one now has a huge monthly interest bill they must pay, or lose control of the company. It is much harder to scale back down.
I think it has little to nothing to do with providing benefits.

What I said is exactly what I heard from sales AT SCAMP.
That is all I have to say about rumor mongering.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

What I said is exactly what I heard from sales AT SCAMP.
That is all I have to say about rumor mongering.

Remember too it's sometimes easier to give an answer that no one can argue with than it is just to admit 'because we don't want to."

[Huck]

Maybe someone could manufacture the Snoozy Parkliner!

[Doctor Harold]

Originally Posted by Huck

Maybe someone could manufacture the Snoozy Parkliner!

Or the Parksnoozer...

[Iowa Dave]

And those new trailers, lets get rid of those length and bed designations.
The new Snoozeliner would come in several models.
The catnapper
The afternoon delight
The all nighter
And the biggest model with king sized bed and custom mattress “ The Rip Van Winkle.”
Gotta go now to Obedience class, yes Rita enrolled me.
Iowa Dave

[JBB]

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

And those new trailers, lets get rid of those length and bed designations.
The new Snoozeliner would come in several models.
The catnapper
The afternoon delight
The all nighter
And the biggest model with king sized bed and custom mattress “ The Rip Van Winkle.”
Gotta go now to Obedience class, yes Rita enrolled me.
Iowa Dave

Dave - Love the new camper names! We removed the black stick on letters that was the Snoozy web address and have renamed ours ‘The Galileo’!

[LyleB]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

What I said is exactly what I heard from sales AT SCAMP.
That is all I have to say about rumor mongering.

Last spring, while I was waiting for my new Scamp, Jim (salesman) told be that they were hiring 20 additional employees in an effort to reduce the backlog and shorten the wait time. He assured me that quality would not suffer, that was a concern of the Evelands and they were committed to making sure it didn't happen.

My trailer was completed approximately three weeks earlier than the original estimate.

[Cathy P.]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I hadn’t heard Parkliner “went under”- no bankruptcy or undelivered orders to my knowledge- they simply ceased production.

Parkliner was acquired by Liberty RV (Little Guy) and they produced a handful that went on lots at around $30,000+, marked down overtime as they were not selling, and then the line was discontinued.

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Doesn’t it seem strange , that in the largest boom period for RV manufacturers we are loosing FG trailer manufacturers on a regular basis . Looking at the list I saw this morning there are 8 fiberglass trailers manufacturers still in business . If you want a modestly priced new FG trailer you basically have two choices , Scamp and Casita .
When the economy tanks again I can see the list of 8 rapidly shrinking
If you can’t make it in the good times, it’s really hard to make it in the bad .
Someday our only choice may be a fiberglass trailer made by Forest River !!

Actually, it makes sense. Quality aside, look at the prices of an R-Pod loaded with options or clone from any of the other companies making them (3 or 4) and it becomes understandable. Weight on some is under 2,000 lbs and a new R-Pod loaded with options runs about $15,000, sometimes less. Also, the teardrop is making a comeback with numerous choices coming from small businesses. Competition.

Originally Posted by floyd

Funny you chose the most stable Fiberglass manufacturer who only asks $500 down and has a history of returning that deposit on request to be "out of the question".
Also , they have been in business longer than almost everybody else combined... coming up on 50years.
That's through several major economic downturns... even 30% inflation in the 70s.
They also continued to produce ordered trailers while customers waited in line, those are not "back orders", or supplier problems.

When you have a product like a Scamp, if one person decides they don't want one, another customer will be ready to step up and assume their position in line - or so I am guessing this is what makes them able to be so flexible.

[Thomcat316]

Thanks for everyone who commented on our thought of picking up where Lil' Snoozy left off - your critiques are sensible and we're going to Not Do That.

I think we're going to stick with the concept we're doing design/build for now, larger ultralight streamliner trailers designed around specific trucks. The current one is a 30' fifth wheel that's about 500# heavier loaded than an empty Scamp 19. We're designing it to be able to be made into a smaller tagalong without a full redesign. Also making the interior modular.

We're thinking of this as a retirement career, with an initial build rate of 3-5 per year. When (if?) this becomes fully viable, we'll let y'all know we exist.