MPG

[MRClaus]

Good Morning all

We talk about MPG fg or tick ? Ok looking at Bigfoot,Sur-side,Amerigo and other boxes trailer Casita , Scamp , Oliver will gett better mpg 2 to 3 ?/

[MRClaus]

waitting for you to chime in Norm

[stevebaz]

There are allot of variables in your equation. The biggest issue is frontal air space on the trailer the bigger and the flatter the more air needs to be displaced. The bigger and flatter the more energy it takes to push the air away.

Next is speed the faster you go the volume of air needed to be moved the more energy it takes to move it.

Next is your Tug it displaces the air around it and effects the trailer it can help stream line the trailer so the the trailer sees less air pressure or it can hinder it and dump all the air right smack into the front of the trailer making more air to push.

Then their is the efficiency of the tug and its use of energy to displace the air at speed and have enough power to displace the air at the trailer and pull the weight of the trailer.

This is allot of variables and compounded by the differences of trailers and tugs and what each driver needs. A small car needs a trailer with a small frontal area and a big tug, boxy in its self can tow a trailer with a larger frontal area. A ford E-350 van wont see a 13 foot Scamp behind it and mileage wont change much but the van already has lousy mileage.

A small car working its heart out trying to pull an Airstream will wear out faster and get extremely poor mileage trying to pull a heavy trailer with a large frontal area. Then put that rig in a 30 mile an hour headwind and the car will be so over powered by force it would probably burn up if you didn't pull over and stop.

In my Case I tow my 13 foot Scamp with my Nissan Pathfinder. Unless the road is dead flat I take it out of overdrive to preserve the expensive transmission. The Nissan with its 3.5 v6 doesn't sense the trailer is there. I go from 21 mpg at 65 mph to 16 mpg at 60 mph towing the trailer. Mostly loss to non use of overdrive. Around town my Nissan gets 16 mpg whether the trailer is on it or not. The Nissan is the perfect size for what I need it for around town, work or towing my boat or Scamp trailer.

[Glenn Baglo]

Suggest you re-read the question you posted.

[honda03842]

Rich and Linda...

First what trailer meets your travel requirements? Are you a weekend camper or an extended traveler? Does your tow vehicle have to serve multiple purposes? (like a working truck), In our case we only have a single vehicle and has to meet all our needs.

Though miles per gallon are important overall cost of ownership is what counts. If you are an extended traveler, only half your miles will be driven towing during your travels, what counts most with mpgs is overall mile per gallon.

I don't believe these stories about burning your tow vehicle out if you're towing with a small car. We towed for 250,000 miles with a 4 cylinder and did not have a single drive line failure including the clutch. There are people who tow with Honda Fits and Toyota Corollas successfully. Many of the small trailers, particularly the 13 foot trailers can be towed with a lot of small cars, even more so if you have trailer brakes. You may have to slow down, you may have to rev your engine but you'll get there.

We now have the Honda Odyssey and I'm always surprised to see that it can maintain highway speeds on 3 cylinders and get over 30 mpg.

Have to go,,,more later.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I don't believe these stories about burning your tow vehicle out if you're towing with a small car. We towed for 250,000 miles with a 4 cylinder and did not have a single drive line failure including the clutch.

I do! Have a stack of repair bills to support it! No issues for the first 4 years of towing with about 50,000 miles of tow time - 5th year & off warranty things started burning up and not in a good way.... no transmission issues though.

[padlin00]

While I don't have a "small" FG egg trailer, the FG fifth wheel I do have weighs about 500 lbs more then our old stick built, both are 20'+/- long and the same width. Using the same truck at the same speeds I get 25-30% better mileage with the Escape.

[redbarron55]

Norm, Is that 30 mpg average or 30 mpg on the flats?

[honda03842]

Rich and Linda,

I'm sure Carol's right, there are cars that don't work as tow vehicles though there are plenty that do. Apparently her Subaru was one of those that did not work.

We want a tow vehicle that gets good mpg and will last us for 10 years and 250,000 miles with only maintenance repairs. We don't like to buy vehicles and we like repairs even less.

Our 2004 Honda CRV proved the test of time towing a loaded Scamp 16 all over North America. We hope our Odyssey does as well.

We both like the Odyssey better than the CRV. It is roomier, quieter and more comfortable. Though we carry very little in the Odyssey when towing we like having the space. It's remarkably comfortable for six and with the two passenger seats in the second row (it's available with a 3 passenger second row), it's easy to get to the third row.

The Odyssey is much more powerful than our former CRV, driving around without the trailer it's hardly ever in the 6 cylinder mode. Recently we took out the second row of seats out and folded the third row into the floor to move a bunch of furniture resulting in 32 (8'x4') square feet of enclosed floor space.

It's all choices. If you want a tow vehicle that will maintain speeds up long mountain runs and power through strong mid-west head winds, then you need gobs of power that most of the time you won't need. Now I recognize some people like having the power. We're not that couple (though our Odyssey seems to have plenty).

Again first consider the trailer, next the type of travel, and lastly what you need the vehicle for besides towing. Once you've figured that out, find something you like that's reliable. The cost of repairs can quickly eat good mileage.

There are lots of tow vehicle choices. We buy Hondas because they have been flawlessly reliable for us. We've had Honda's for 35 years, none has gone less than 250,000 miles during our ownership, none has ever had an engine or transmission repair and we hardly ever bring them for service.

I would love to own a VW diesel as a tow vehicle but have stuck with 'if it works don't change it'.

The only nervousness I have with the Odyssey is the cylinder switching functionality. Ask me in 9 years about it's track record.

Small fiberglass trailers tow very well. Though gas is a significant expense for a couple like us it does not dominate our trailer travel. One $1000 repair can cost as much as the fuel we'll buy on a two month trip to Newfoundland.

Again, first the trailer, go to a rally where you can see a lot of different ones in a weekend.

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

Norm, Is that 30 mpg average or 30 mpg on the flats?

JD,

We typically average between 30 and 35 mpg on the Interstate from Maine to southern CT in the Odyssey, usually 300-400 mile trips. Most of the time we're in the ECO mode, 3 or 4 cylinders powering the Odyssey.

With 3 cylinders it's typically averaging over 40 mpg. It seems to stay in 3 cylinders downhill, on the flat or minor uphill slopes. It obviously doesn't take a lot of power to maintain the Odyssey at speed.

With 4 cylinders it's typically averaging 30 miles per gallon. It seems to stay in 4 cylinders on most Interstate moderate up hill sections. On the Interstate not towing we drive 65-70 Mph.

On severe uphill sections it switches to 6 cylinders. It is a silent process and I can only tell it's in ECO because a light comes on. I know the number of cylinders by the miles per gallon.

When towing it only goes in the Eco mode on the flat and not all the time and on downhill runs. We do not use the suggested premium fuel nor have we locked out overdrive when towing. We have not locked out overdrive yet because most of our towing this year has been in the relatively flat east.

Towing, so far average about 19 mpg, not as good as the standard transmission CRV but considering what we get not towing with the Odyssey it balances out. I am still amazed by the highway efficiency.

We do use synthetic oil.

Lastly we've now backed into 1,000s of campsites so we're practiced. Backing with the automatic transmission Odyssey is easier. Lastly we love the back up camera it makes hooking up even easier.

When we took the seats out, we looked at each other and said we could travel in here... they do make a tent extender for the rear hatch.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by honda03842

Rich and Linda,

I'm sure Carol's right, there are cars that don't work as tow vehicles though there are plenty that do. Apparently her Subaru was one of those that did not work.

.

I think it all depends on what a party expects to be a good tow based on previous towing experiences with other vehicles and what one believes is normal wear and tear vs abnormal wear and tear. We all have different opinions and it is a very subjective topic.

We have a number of folks here in BC who tired pulling a 13' Boler's with CRV's and they ended up switching to a different tow vehicle fairly quickly as they did not feel the CRV to be well suited/up to the job of towing. In all but one of those cases the parties doing the towing had towed previously with vehicles a little larger - so they had something to compare it to.

Had I not owned others Subaru's previously I may have said the issues the car started to have in year 5 of towing where all standard wear and tear and nothing to do with towing. Had I never towed a trailer with a vehicle with more power I might have said it had more than enough power as well. On the later point it did get by just fine towing with it through many states and provinces but I was careful in route planing and it did indeed provide a nice stable tow. Now that I have gone back to something with a bit more power its easy to look back and question myself as to why I bothered with the hassle of changing route plans to avoid long steep grades and being careful with weights loaded etc due to using a smaller vehicle just to save my self about 1mpg difference. I still suggest the Subaru to be a good choose for pulling a 13' trailer just nothing larger/heavier in weight.

In my experience having a vehicle with more power & larger tow rating is a more relaxing/comfortable towing experience. In reading your own comments posted on your new tow vehicle I see that is something we do agree on. ;-)

[MRClaus]

this has been great love hearing form you all

[redbarron55]

Norm,
I think you have made a great choice for you. Also I would not recommend the VW Diesel for someone who is not mechanical and doen'r mind working on a car. The VW dealer maintenance is expensive and many of them are not very good.
The VW TDI is kind of a niche vehicle. My wife lover her sportwagen because it will (as she says) Whup and zip.
For us the VW TDI Sportwagen is a good choice especially since I can maintain the thing pretty much by myself.
It has the torque and pulls the Scamp quite well and as importantly it also keeps She Who Must Be Obeyed happy. We tired the Odyssey and she thought it was too large and unwieldy for her normal usage. We had minivans when we were younger and had to move things and kids. Now it is mostly just us, but we may want more space later, Who knows?
Still if we cross paths if you want to try out the VW TDI I am game and would love to meet you (all down here, Y'all).

[honda03842]

JD,

Do you go to the Scamp Camp in FL?

[honda03842]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

Norm, Is that 30 mpg average or 30 mpg on the flats?

JD.

Tonight Ginny and I went out to a little Pizza place we last went to in the 1990s, a little trip down memory lane. It's about 30 miles from our house. The way out was two lane roads with a few stop lights and going home traffic. The way home was about half highway.

On the way there we averaged an indicated 29.4 miles per gallon on the way back 31.7. Historically at the upper end the gauge reads low.

It's truly amazing to me. I know diesels do really well but this is a really big vehicle.

[redbarron55]

That is vertical (VERY GOOD the Phone auto correct did the vertical part) good and if I had real life input before I might have considered one more closely. They have a lot of room, but Connie was not excited about the size.
The VW is great, but there are several cotcha's for the unwary, especially the first year of the common rail turbos.
It is my hope that many of the issues have been taken care of.
I must think so or I wouldn't have bought the second one. Also there is the learning curve I already have going for it.
This week we are in Louisville KY and Connersville Indiana for work and I am having some work done after 235,000 miles. It is due it's timing belt and water pump change and that DMF we spoke of (dual mass flywheel).
A slight rattle is a early signal.
We have averaged about 41 mpg and right now the Diesel is not too much higher.
So far the worst equivalent RUG cost per mile would be about 30 mpg.

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[MC1]

Originally Posted by stevebaz

A small car working its heart out trying to pull an Airstream will wear out faster and get extremely poor mileage trying to pull a heavy trailer with a large frontal area. Then put that rig in a 30 mile an hour headwind and the car will be so over powered by force it would probably burn up if you didn't pull over and stop.

I agree with most of your post Steve but this one I question. I can use our rig as an example because I have experience with it for 10 years. The aerodynamic Airstream works well at slipping through the air. Put our smallish aerodynamic car in front of it and the car pokes a hole in the wall of air and the trailer slips through it. The car is now 13 years old and runs like new with no issues. (except for the replacement of one rear wheel bearing).

PS... we have towed into a 30MPH headwind at 60MPH. No problem with the V6 power.

Originally Posted by stevebaz

In my Case I tow my 13 foot Scamp with my Nissan Pathfinder. Unless the road is dead flat I take it out of overdrive to preserve the expensive transmission. The Nissan with its 3.5 v6 doesn't sense the trailer is there. I go from 21 mpg at 65 mph to 16 mpg at 60 mph towing the trailer. Mostly loss to non use of overdrive. Around town my Nissan gets 16 mpg whether the trailer is on it or not. The Nissan is the perfect size for what I need it for around town, work or towing my boat or Scamp trailer.

We have the same 3.5 Nissan engine as you, in our G35, tow a much heavier trailer, and we both get 16MPG when towing.

[MC1]

Originally Posted by Carol H

I do! Have a stack of repair bills to support it! No issues for the first 4 years of towing with about 50,000 miles of tow time - 5th year & off warranty things started burning up and not in a good way.... no transmission issues though.

Bad luck or you chose the wrong vehicle.

[Franswa]

I tow with a heavy vehicle to begin with (almost 5000lbs)....Dodge Nitro 4x4, 3.7L V6

Dodges have a reputation for lousy gas mileage and this one lives up to that reputation

I tow a BF17 that when loaded weighs 3240 lbs (wheel weight only)

I don't tow on flats (I live in the mountains)

Average mileage is 18L per 100 kilometers

AKA....17 miles per Imperial gallon

OR......13 miles per US gallon

good thing I don't tow in the states, hey?...LOL

a "usual" trip for me is 3-4 days, about 400 kms, and costs about 100 bucks of gas.....but then I don't have/pay CG fees the vast majority of the time

[redbarron55]

We have been driving today in a Toyota Camry and it seems to have good power at low speed, but on the road it is weak compared with our tdi.
Even a small hill it has to downshift an the reported mpg so far at approximately 150 moles is 28.5.
This is a short distance at 70 and most at 55 on Indiana ' back roads to Connersville. Not particularly comfy nor impressed power to mileage.

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