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02-03-2013, 10:00 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Trailer: 13 ft Scamp
Posts: 102
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Need advice on propane heaters
Should I permanently install a propane heater in my 2006 16 foot scamp? I can buy a new one from Scamp for about $400, but would still need to pay someone to install it? It's suburban nt-12se furnace.
I have been reading all the recent posts about heaters. I miss having a heater. I could get a portable one for much cheaper, but then have to leave windows open and worry about carbon monoxide buildup.
I would like to boondock more. It can get cold in the spring or fall, and having heat would be nice. If I put in a built in one, how much do I really have to worry about using up the battery? Is the suburban a good one, or should I look at another brand?
It would be so much easier to just use electric heaters, but we liKe to boondock, especially because of four dogs.
Thanks,
Ruth
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02-03-2013, 10:01 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Name: jim
Trailer: 2022 Escape19 pulled by 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi Sport
Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,710
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I'd get the Atwood Everest #8012 with the lowest amp hour draw available today, 2 a/h.
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02-03-2013, 11:38 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I'd get the Atwood Everest #8012 with the the lowest amp hour draw available today, 2 a/h.
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The current used by the 8012 is about 2 amps (2A)... not "amp hour" or a/h (which would mean "amps per hour").
I agree that this Atwood is a good choice. It has lower-power fan because it is not for use with ducted systems; since our trailers typically use furnaces without ducting, there's no need for the higher power consumption (and more fan noise) of furnaces intended for use with ducting. I remember the 8012 spec at 1.8 A, but even if it is then "2" is close enough.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
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02-03-2013, 11:39 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Name: Francesca Knowles
Trailer: '78 Trillium 4500
Jefferson County, Washington State, U.S.A.
Posts: 4,669
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I'm a catalytic heater user so have no personal experience in this department, but my observation as a member of several forums is that there's a general consensus that furnaces are indeed major limiters of boondocking time due to power draw from the battery. Most users report about three days of battery life in heating season, depending on usage of course, and on other demands in the system.
As Jim said, some furnaces are a little better than others, draw wise- the model you're looking at differs from the one he suggested by about 1 amp hr.
Francesca
__________________
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Propane Facts vs. Fiction:. Click here
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02-03-2013, 11:53 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Name: jim
Trailer: 2022 Escape19 pulled by 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi Sport
Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
The current used by the 8012 is about 2 amps (2A)... no "h" or "hours" involved.
I agree that this Atwood is a good choice. It has lower-power fan because it is not for use with ducted systems; since our trailers typically use furnaces without ducting, there's no need for the higher power consumption (and more fan noise) of furnaces intended for use with ducting. I remember the 8012 spec at 1.8 A, but even if it is then "2" is close enough.
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When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps per hour to keep it operating, thus amp hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp hours.
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02-03-2013, 11:57 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Name: jim
Trailer: 2022 Escape19 pulled by 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi Sport
Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles
I'm a catalytic heater user so have no personal experience in this department, but my observation as a member of several forums is that there's a general consensus that furnaces are indeed major limiters of boondocking time due to power draw from the battery. Most users report about three days of battery life in heating season, depending on usage of course, and on other demands in the system.
As Jim said, some furnaces are a little better than others, draw wise- the model you're looking at differs from the one he suggested by about 1 amp hr.
Francesca
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Which calculates to a 33% savings or you could say the other model draws 50% more than the Atwood.
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02-03-2013, 12:32 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps per hour to keep it operating, thus amp hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp hours.
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Jim, please just leave that "per hour" out, and you would have it just right! The ampere (or just amp) is a rate unit - it already has the element of time in it. That's all I was suggesting - just use the units of measure of properly, to avoid confusing the information.
The corrected version of Jim's post would be: When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps to keep it operating, thus amp-hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp-hours. This problem comes up routinely, and greatly increases confusion compared to simply using the units of measure properly.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
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02-03-2013, 12:39 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Name: jim
Trailer: 2022 Escape19 pulled by 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi Sport
Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,710
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I guess my question would be, if the heater operated for 30 minutes avery hour, am I drawing 1 amp or 2 amps from my battery reserve every hour?
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02-03-2013, 12:39 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
The corrected version of Jim's post would be: When a 12v " 2 amp draw" or "current used" item is listed, that means it takes 2 amps to keep it operating, thus amp-hour is an indicator when calculating your battery reserve which is measured in amp-hours. This problem comes up routinely, and greatly increases confusion compared to simply using the units of measure properly.
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"that means 2 amps to keep it operating" but for how long???? clear as a bell to me now as to what the furnace he is recommened will use in a hour of use. Not!
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02-03-2013, 12:43 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 5,112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I guess my question would be, if the heater operated for 30 minutes avery hour, am I drawing 1 amp or 2 amps from my battery reserve every hour?
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2 amps for a half hour uses 1 amp-hour of power from the battery.
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02-03-2013, 12:45 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: jim
Trailer: 2022 Escape19 pulled by 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi Sport
Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,710
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That is what I thought and if it ran for an hour, 2 amps. So when calculating your battery needs you need to time as well as draw. either way, I think Brian and I were saying the same thing, you say tomato and I say tomato
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02-03-2013, 12:47 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 5,112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
That is what I thought and if it ran for an hour, 2 amps. So when calculating your battery needs you need to time as well as draw.
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Yes, it is rate x time. Like MPH x hours = distance.
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02-03-2013, 12:56 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 16 ft Scamp
Posts: 11,756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas G.
2 amps for a half hour uses 1 amp-hour of power from the battery.
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Thank you Tom for a much simpler explanation for those of use who are electrically challenged & little interest in changing that.
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02-03-2013, 02:19 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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Slightly off center of topic, I'd like to have a repair manual or even a parts schematic for an Atwood 8012-11. Went up, up and away in a ballon and to the top of Everest and in my Burro but I can't find information on this furnace. The Atwood site PDF containing furnace info stop at p. 27 but according to its index the 8000 series info starts on p. 39. Some fun! Mine is out in the aisle right now. I'm going to blow out the squirrel cage to see if it's not throwing the sail switch but I may have to take to dealer. Chance to clean up Scotchlokbuttcon hell in there; apparently been out before for its annual checkup which is encouraging, I think? Atwood has the nerve to state that they can be serviced in place. Perhaps they mean a burner diagnostic from the front? A ferret with a stubby would have trouble servicing it in situ.
jack
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02-03-2013, 02:39 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth G
I have been reading all the recent posts about heaters. I miss having a heater. I could get a portable one for much cheaper, but then have to leave windows open and worry about carbon monoxide buildup.
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Even if you purchase a permanent, built in propane heater.. you will still need to have ventilation and carbon monoxide can still be a concern.
Be safe!
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
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02-03-2013, 02:58 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: jim
Trailer: 2022 Escape19 pulled by 2014 Dodge Ram Hemi Sport
Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,710
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Jack,
I have an #8012 in my Escape, I'll let you know when I go get the manual and tell you what is in it. Maybe after the game...
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02-03-2013, 03:28 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Name: Jack
Trailer: '98 BURRO 17WB
Delaware
Posts: 2,548
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Say, that would be great, Jim. Need the spark gap on the electrode or igniter. I think it's 3/16 or 1/4". I'd sure like to have a copy. Absolutely n need to look today--the holy of holies.
jack
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02-03-2013, 06:42 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carol H
Thank you Tom for a much simpler explanation for those of use who are electrically challenged & little interest in changing that.
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Tom is correct, and it is simple because it uses the correct units. Say the same thing with random extra words (such as "hour") in it and it makes less sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
That is what I thought and if it ran for an hour, 2 amps.
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No, the idea is right but the words are wrong. See Tom's correct version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
I think Brian and I were saying the same thing, you say tomato and I say tomato
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More like I say tomato and you say cherry, but I somehow figure out that you really mean tomato.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
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02-03-2013, 06:47 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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As in, my boat travels at 6 knots, not 6 knots per hour.
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02-03-2013, 07:03 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
Even if you purchase a permanent, built in propane heater.. you will still need to have ventilation and carbon monoxide can still be a concern.
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Yes, you still need some ventilation with a furnace, but not enough to get rid of the propane combustion products... because they are not produced in the trailer interior. It's still a concern, but a vastly smaller concern.
The ventilation difference is not temporary/portable versus permanent/built-in; it is an unvented burner in the interior versus a furnace with a heat exchanger between the combustion and the interior air. Of course, while you can get a permanently mounted unvented heater (same air quality risks as any unvented propane heater), it's tough to find a portable heater with vents to the outside!
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
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