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Old 03-21-2021, 10:35 AM   #21
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Name: Darwin
Trailer: 2002 19 ft Scamp 19 ft 5th Wheel
Posts: 3,358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
Be careful not to let your tow vehicle make the final decision on what trailer you ultimately end up with . Buying a trailer that is not what you want , need or is insufficient for your purpose just because it can be towed by your present vehicle never works out well in my experience.
It seems many people choose a trailer that is too small for their needs mainly because thatís all their present tow vehicle can handle . Then in a short while 2 footitis sets in and the journey starts all over .

We went from a 16 ft to a 17 ft to a 21 ft and now are in the process of starting over for the 4th time
Choose wisely - we didnít and paid the price
We did the same also. Learn from us and avoid this mistake.
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Old 03-21-2021, 10:50 AM   #22
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Name: bill
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19; 1977 Trillium 1300
The Mountains of North Carolina
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Agree with Jon, a 13 footer CAN work if you are willing to accept no bathroom. Carving out a bathroom means you have to give up something else, and with only 10 feet of body size in a 13 footer, that something else is bunk beds, etc. Instead, using the camper as a mobile bedroom with a small kitchen space, a 13 can work. And people that come from tents can usually adapt to the small space. My friends with a 43 foot motorcoach could not handle a 25 foot Bigfoot. Included in their requirements are two bathrooms! Its just how you approach it. No approach is better or more correct. For them, they are right!

Even with out Escape 19, we prefer to shower elsewhere. We have used truck stop showers, and campground if they have one. Even in our "spacious" Escape 19, the shower is like showering in a tiny phone booth (its actually smaller than a phone booth). If you can do it, good for you. Myself, even at Quartzite, there are two truck stops in town, both have showers. For a small fee, you can get a pay shower. Truck stops cater to truck drivers, and go figure, they don't have showers in their trucks and can spend many days in a row on the road.

+100 to Steve's comment above, don't let your current vehicle dictate your camper choice. You could get a camper so small, and so light, that your family will be miserable! Instead, figure out the size camper you need, and if your current vehicle is not big enough, plan to upgrade. Friends of mine bought a camper from Camping World (AVOID). Of course, the Camping World "expert" assured them their tow vehicle would be adequate. When they got home and showed us the trailer, I told the husband on the side: "Congratulations, you will be getting a new truck!" I mean, what guy doesn't want a new truck? Sure enough after their first outing in the mountains, they found out their vehicle was not adequate and they got that new truck.... RV dealers will tell you what you want to hear.

We usually "dry camp" but we do not boondock. Dry camping might be a National Park with no hookups, or a Walmart overnight. Even Walmart has bathroom facilities and we use theirs. Ditto the state and national parks. True boondocking you will have no facilities. In that case, you need to bring your own, at least a toilet. Of course, a portapotty can work, not ideal. You have people boon docking in mini-vans that they converted. They do it, but some type of porta potty is involved.
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Old 03-22-2021, 06:36 AM   #23
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Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
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If letting your vehicle dictate your trailer is bad, I’m of the view that letting a trailer dictate your vehicle is just as bad, sometimes worse. It’s easy to get sucked into a great big trailer, and then find yourself in a place of either having to buy and drive around a much larger vehicle every day or keeping an extra vehicle just for towing.

The way I see it, Bill, your friends’ mistake was believing misleading information about the trailer they were buying. Sad, but all too common. It's an old, old problem, as The Long, Long Trailer humorously depicts!

If they’d had accurate information maybe they’d have still gone with the larger trailer, knowing they’d need a new truck, or maybe they’d have been just as happy with a smaller trailer their old truck could tow. But at least they’d have made the choice themselves.

In the interest of accurate information, I’ll point the OP to the sticky thread “Trailer Weights in the Real World” in the General Chat section. It has scaled weights of many makes and models loaded for travel. Post #401 links to a handy spreadsheet. I will also suggest downloading and reading the towing section of possible tow vehicles prior to purchase to uncover any hidden caveats and restrictions.

In this case the OP is intending to upgrade their tow vehicle to a 5000# mid-sized SUV. If that’s the largest vehicle they are willing to buy and own, then that’s that. There are a number of viable options within that limitation and yes, all will be snug for a family of four. It would make sense to look at several 16-17’ molded trailers in person before committing to a vehicle purchase. I look forward to hearing what they decide in the end.
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Old 03-22-2021, 12:18 PM   #24
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Name: John
Trailer: Escape 21, behind an '02 F250 7.3 diesel tug
Mid Left Coast
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Originally Posted by Jon in AZ View Post
...In this case the OP is intending to upgrade their tow vehicle to a 5000# mid-sized SUV. If thatís the largest vehicle they are willing to buy and own, then thatís that. There are a number of viable options within that limitation and yes, all will be snug for a family of four. ...
hah, my family of four used to go tent camping with a Volvo 544 and later a plymouth valiant, using a big old heavy canvas and wood frame tent.

we are all so spoiled today.
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Old 03-22-2021, 12:52 PM   #25
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Name: Jack
Trailer: Casita Liberty
Virginia
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We own a 17 foot Casita & it is just the 2 of us. If I had to do it over again I would have taken a long look at the 21-foot Escape. You can always rent a camper and see how it works for you. The best advice I read was to get what works for you, then get a tow vehicle. Let us know what you decide.

We bought a used Chevy Colorado. The towing capacity is 7500 pounds. It is midsize.
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Old 03-22-2021, 07:12 PM   #26
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Name: mike
Trailer: CASITA
New York
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you can pull a small pop up camper with your outback. I did that for years, Then to casita 17 with tacoma and now a escape 19 with tacoma. If your going to buy a new vehicle for towing. I would decide what camper will work best then look at vehicles. I love the casita 17 But the escape 19 gave us the extra room we needed Bigger bed and bigger table area. we went back in forth on the escape 21c and 19 . I love the layout of the 21c,But it still has same size bed as Casita 54" wide. We ended up with a 19 60" bed.
I would suggest you go in some models to look.
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Old 03-22-2021, 11:58 PM   #27
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Name: Justus
Trailer: Hymer Touring GT
Illinois
Posts: 279
We owned a Hymer Touring GT for about a year while it was just the two of us. It had a permanent king bed and front dinette that converted into a cramped double. We owned it for less than a year before our son was born and we passed it along to a family of 4 during our hiatus from camping. I have kept in touch with the owner and his young ones are loving it. That particular trailer is a rare beast, but the moral is that, depending on the age and size of your children, any of the brands you mentioned could sleep 4 with the right setup.

While we were looking to buy, we toured a 2001 1500-series Bigfoot with gaucho bed side-by-side with an Escape 17. We loved the Bigfoot for its bright interior and roomy feel, but ultimately decided we weren't comfortable towing it with our Highlander (also 5000 lbs tow rating). It wasn't the weight, but the HUGE frontal area that concerned me. It dwarfed the Escape.

Our other takeaway was that an Escape 17, although perfect on paper, would never work for our family of 3. The Escape 19 would be the minimum for us without upgrading our vehicle, but much of that comes down to wanting a comfy permanent bed for ourselves. A Bigfoot 19 would be an ideal lightweight trailer for us, but they are so hard to find it's almost not worth considering. If you can find a 1500 series 17' Bigfoot, I'd say that's worth at least looking at. I wouldn't hesitate to look at 90s-vintage models so stay within a budget. You can find some modifications to the gaucho bed on these forums that should make it a little more comfortable for two adults, and the dinette bed is suitable for two young children. Being in Washington you do have a leg up on Bigfoot sightings, especially once the border opens back up.

Another model I really liked was the Parkliner. They are out of production but you may have luck finding a 15' model. The 16' I think they only made a handful of before stopping production. When we were in the market these were all out of our price range.

In retrospect, that 1500 series B17 was the right trailer for us. If I had a do over, I would have just bought the one we looked at and traded in our second car for a used truck if need be. You're in a good position to find the right trailer and then match a tow vehicle to it.

On the topic of tow vehicles, make sure you're considering payload and GCWR as well. Many people don't realize that you are apt to run out of payload long before tow rating, especially on higher trim trucks and SUVs. And don't forget that tongue weight counts against payload.
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Old 03-26-2021, 02:04 AM   #28
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Name: John
Trailer: Escape 21, behind an '02 F250 7.3 diesel tug
Mid Left Coast
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Originally Posted by Justus C View Post
We owned a Hymer Touring GT for about a year while it was just the two of us. It had a permanent king bed and ....
wow, a standard King is 76" wide (6' 4") and 80" long (6' 8"). That must have been a fairly wide trailer to fit one of those.
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Old 03-26-2021, 08:25 AM   #29
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Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz View Post
wow, a standard King is 76" wide (6' 4") and 80" long (6' 8"). That must have been a fairly wide trailer to fit one of those.
Don’t know about the Touring GT, but Casita and many others are 80” wide overall, usually giving about- surprise!- 76” interior width. So a full width bed with a longways orientation could be a true residential king. The Casita Liberty 17 in king bed configuration is 76”x82”. For that matter you could even configure a Happier Camper with a true king bed if you wanted. It’s really about what else you are willing to sacrifice.

Of course there are no well-defined standards for bed sizes in RVs, and marketing descriptions are sometimes laughably optimistic. Always pays to ask. Even larger trailers with walk-around beds often skimp on the length.
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Old 03-26-2021, 10:50 AM   #30
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Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escapeó 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
Posts: 4,500
I have never understood why you need / want a king size bed in a small FG trailer , especially when space is already at a premium but to each their own
Reminds me of the fairy tale - “ The princess and the pea “
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Old 03-26-2021, 11:50 AM   #31
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Name: David
Trailer: Bigfoot 25 ft (25B25RQ)
Colorado
Posts: 309
At the risk of sounding blasphemous to other forum members, keep an open mind whether you are willing to pay a whole lot extra for a molded fiberglass trailer as opposed to other RV's on the market. These trailers have developed a somewhat cult following that has driven the prices to unbelievable heights. I myself have bought a Scamp 16, a Casita 17, a Bigfoot 21 and a Bigfoot 25. The fact that they might last forever wasn't very relevant because I kept selling and upgrading every few years anyway. I also recently purchased a 6 year old Arctic Fox stick-built, 28 feet long with a slide and wonderful technical amenities for less money than I would currently have to pay for a 15 year old Casita. Every fiberglass trailer I have owned was way more suitable for a couple than for multiple adults, kids and dogs. If your goal is to get out and enjoy traveling with your family, find something that fits the size of your family without breaking the bank. I have been a member of this forum for 18 years and love molded fiberglass trailers for their unique look and durability. But I have come to realize that all other types of RV builds are not "junk" because people on this forum say so.
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Old 03-26-2021, 03:54 PM   #32
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Name: Ray
Trailer: 2017 Scamp 16 Deluxe
Missouri
Posts: 684
Wayne Pitlick recently told me that they will be making our Scamp 16 Deluxe layout "official" as Scamp 16 Deluxe Layout C. It is somewhat similar to the molded Layout 4 trailer except that it has the larger 54" bed. Ours is/was a Layout A with the front sofa/bunk-beds substituted for the usual front dinette.

Our trailer has the oak interior and has/had an empty weight of 2200 pounds (2,000 on the main axle + 200 pounds on the tongue).

Ray
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Old 03-26-2021, 05:10 PM   #33
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Name: Steve
Trailer: 2018, 21ft escapeó 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie
NW Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David and Nancy View Post
At the risk of sounding blasphemous to other forum members, keep an open mind whether you are willing to pay a whole lot extra for a molded fiberglass trailer as opposed to other RV's on the market. These trailers have developed a somewhat cult following that has driven the prices to unbelievable heights. I myself have bought a Scamp 16, a Casita 17, a Bigfoot 21 and a Bigfoot 25. The fact that they might last forever wasn't very relevant because I kept selling and upgrading every few years anyway. I also recently purchased a 6 year old Arctic Fox stick-built, 28 feet long with a slide and wonderful technical amenities for less money than I would currently have to pay for a 15 year old Casita. Every fiberglass trailer I have owned was way more suitable for a couple than for multiple adults, kids and dogs. If your goal is to get out and enjoy traveling with your family, find something that fits the size of your family without breaking the bank. I have been a member of this forum for 18 years and love molded fiberglass trailers for their unique look and durability. But I have come to realize that all other types of RV builds are not "junk" because people on this forum say so.

I could buy a FG trailer at an inflated price that satisfies my personal desires . But if that trailer is so lacking in space amenities and privacy that my wife , kids and dog don’t want to go camping and it makes their life miserable, , what have I gained ?

IMHO. - Stick built trailers have been the whipping boy on this and other similar forums for too long . As I have said before I take no personal pride nor do I have any feeling of superiority by owning a FG trailer
My wife , our dog and I own an Escape 21 which works for us most of the time but there are times that a 36 ft stick built or MH looks mighty tempting.
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Old 03-27-2021, 10:49 AM   #34
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Name: Lynne
Trailer: Escape
Idaho
Posts: 14
Trailer for 4

Remember that towing w/2 axles will be heavier but I feel that it is safer.
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Old 03-27-2021, 11:45 AM   #35
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Name: Jason
Trailer: Casita
California
Posts: 2
Here's a link to a previous post that asked a similar question...
https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...oom-93583.html
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Old 03-27-2021, 12:42 PM   #36
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Name: Andy
Trailer: Scamp 16'
North Carolina
Posts: 41
Just my nickel (Inflation!). My wife is NOT a camper. I am an old backpacker with most of the App Trail done before a knee injury took me off the trail. We looked at "Stickies", Airstreams (my wife's pick) and then I saw a Scamp, liked the unit, found a bargain and bought it (W/o wife's approval). Tho many here camp with 3-4 people in a 16' Scamp, my wife likes her room. I built up an outdoor "Kitchen" for her. (She is a "foodie," whatever that is supposed to mean....!) So most cooking is outdoors. The "kitchen" (think an island in a kitchen) rides in the back of the pickup. First couple of outings were "OK" at best for her. Then we visited a place up on the New River here in NC, and the little Scamp got tons of attention. She liked that, our "neighbor" was a restaurant owner from around DC, liked the outdoor kitchen so much that he came over, took photos and was going to build one for his Airstream.



We visited one of the local dealers that had a 13' Scamp on their lot, my wife walked in, turned around and said, "Way too small!" She is 5'2", I am 6'2", but she said that the 13' was too claustrophobic for her.



In our search, we did look at lots of other campers, almost every one of the "Stick built" campers had some kind of problem (Used ones). Especially the "Slideouts." Lots of those tend to rot along the top, and several almost new ones we looked at had problems either deploying the Slideout, or in closing it. One actually FELL OUT when the sales guy extended it out! Walked out of that one rather quickly. My Scamp has had some problems, but most easily fixed. I pull my Scamp with a 4 cyl Ford Ranger. Manual transmission, but marginal on any hills, and will not make it up into the mountains. Will have a different TV later this year, but the Ranger has pulled the camper into the "Foothills" of NC, as well as down to the beach.


Hope you find a model that fits your needs. My wife finally said that the Scamp was OK, after looking at Airstream prices. She is particular (still wonder why she married me!!), and we had kids, we would be in something bigger. Size does matter, I find the 16' Scamp to be an excellent fibreglas tent with a bath and a shower. Listen to the collective wisdom here, it helped me alot when I got my camper.


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