Scamp Factory Tour

[Egg Shopper]

Hello,

Yesterday I was finally able to tour the Scamp factory up in Backous, MN. It was a long drive. I have never seen a Scamp up close or been inside one and it was great but I do have a few questions for Scamp owners.

Jim is the salesman I've been working with and I recently found out unpacking a few boxes I talked to him over the phone not long after their fire a few years back.

I had driven to Backous with a few questions with what I've read on the forum.

Furnace : One concern I had was from the recent thread about very noisy Suburban furnaces and was going to ask to see if Scamp stocked or had as an option a quieter version or if I could even switch to that Atwood furnace that was mentioned. Unfortunately as soon I shared about reading that the Suburban furnaces were noisy I was cut off and he said " Suburban is the best furnaces made and they are very quiet!" "That furnace is so powerful and with the trailer being so well insulated it rarely comes on." Did they switch to a quieter Suburban or do the furnaces rarely come on due to their insulation?

I also shared with Jim that I had narrowed my choice down to a Scamp 16 foot Deluxe side dinette front bathroom that would be loaded with options or an Escape. The Escape would be more expensive but I would not have to make modifications to it and let him know how I plan to use the camper meaning extended trips and boondocking.

Lights: Regarding LED lights Jim said specifically all I'd need to do is switch the bulbs over to LED bulbs and that would be it. Is that true?

Insulation: While we were taking the factory tour one worker was installing the reflectix insulation and Jim pointed out that Scamp had the best insulation of all and told me I'd be nice and warm at -30F. I replied yeah but no water in the tanks and he said water also. I read that the reflectix was pretty good insulation and figuring the size and shape of an egg trailer with ratfur would be good against hot or cold weather but being warm at -30F? Does anyone have any experience camping in a Scamp at anything close to those temperatures dry camping? Wouldn't your tanks and lines freeze at those temperatures with a stock unit? Is a stock Scamp better insulated than a stock Escape? Escape owners would you know? I don't know on that one.

Axle: I asked if there was now an option to increase the height of the axle or trailer(ground clearance) and he said that they didn't want to do it for fear it would be too high and he stopped right there so I was left a little bewildered on that.

Rivets: I asked if I traveled on gravel roads a lot if that would mean I would need to worry about replacing rivets sooner. He mentioned that the sun did more damage in exposure to the caps leading to rivets needing to be replaced. I replied that when not in use the trailer would be stored in a garage and he said the rivets should last a lifetime then.

A few changes I noticed and asked Jim about. I noticed these new really tall rooftop air conditioners and he said they switched to Dometic since they are 30 pounds lighter and have good output. (Personally I'd rather have a low profile A/C unit that does not detract from the aero shape of the egg that does not draw juice from a generator and is highly efficient if that is even possible) I don't know.

Scamp also switch the cabinet and door handle hardware for their Deluxe package. They are narrower so you can get your fingers behind and get a better grasp. I was very impressed with the Deluxe units. The woodwork is solid and seems very well made. I checked out the beds and everything else in the campers and was really impressed. I like the shape of the Scamps too.

So, aside from being asked for a deposit 5 times and just go ahead and do paperwork, not being able to ask questions and left with a few more questions unanswered all within 45 minutes it was nice to finally see various new Scamps in person. If I decide Scamp I have an idea how I'd slightly modify the exterior to make it a little different but I need to check Escape next.

[Ben and Janie]

I have met and talked to Jim and Alan at scamp Jim is a sale then talk to salesman Alan is talk and to get your questions answered and then sale I also noticed Alan is more people friendly and wants you help you make the proper choice of options to meet your needs If Jim was the only salesman there I would not have brought from him I would have brought a used Scamp I looked at many brands of fiberglass RVs before deciding on Scamp. Scamp meet my needs more than other makes. I went on several factory tours and talked to several owners before deciding on Scamp

[melissab]

I too went through Alan after having talked with Jim a couple of years before for the same reasons mentioned. The coldest I've camped in so far is 30 degrees (above zero) and our furnace only kicked on a couple times in the night after preheating the trailer to nice and toasty. The noise does not bother us as we sleep with an AC window unit at home specifically for the noise but ya, it's not silent when it does kick on. Warm sleeping bags means you don't have to have the thermostat set as low so it wont need to come on as frequently. You can eliminate the heater option from Scamp and install what you want. If you will be boondocking a lot you might consider a fanless heater like a Wave so you don't drain your batteries running the furnace fan.

[Jared J]

There is a furnace model that is supposed to be quieter than the others, I don't remember the designation. After that, it is what it is. If you're plugged in, a good electric heater will easily cook you out, down to freezing temps. After that you might need another.

Mine has the older insulation/wall covering which is poorer, and I worked in it in shirt sleeves in 0* weather with two electric heaters. Mines a fifth wheel also, so more area to heat up.

If it's warm inside, your lines and fresh tanks won't freeze. Your black/gray tanks certainly could. They do make heaters for those, if you wanted to use them in colder temps.

Led bulbs are a direct swap, assuming the fixtures are wired right. LEDs are polarity sensitive, standard bulbs aren't.

I know they do a factory lift on the axle there, they sent me the lift pieces along with my new axle to put on mine.

[cpaharley2008]

Here is my opinion, having owned an EggCamper and an Escape. The furnace in the Escape, Atwood 8012 is very quiet and only pulls 2 amps running. Over an 8 hour night at 50%, that is only 8 a/ from your battery. Reflectix insulation is used by most f/g trailers and helps somewhat, the carpet on the wall helps with condensation. Escape uses a thick vinyl covering, about the same between all of them. But here is where there are major differences. Windows is where you will loose your heat, Scamp deals with that by giving you fewer windows. Escape offers thermapane windows. The floor in an Escape is a piece of 1/2 flake board. In an Escape the bottom is sealed in fiberglass, the plywood floor is on top of the fiberglass. The wood floor is elevated to prevent any water damage. There is also a foam insulation package Escape offers that sprays the entire bottom of the trailer and tanks and seals them from the outside. With optional 12v tank heaters, you should be fine down to zero. In addition Escape will add additional reflectix inside for 100% coverage.
I have camped in single digit weather in my Escape with no issues, the floor is warm, the windows and walls keep you warm. with solar and properly battery set up, you are good to go.
That said, the Scamp deluxe interior is really nice looking. Too bad they are not willing to customize like Escape will. The Scamp deluxe is fine for 3 season camping, but for the 4th season winter an Escape would be better. Also Escape can be had 100% LED, inside and outside for about $200, a lot easier than replacing all the exterior and interior bulbs on a Scamp.

[Bob Miller]

Hmmmm
Sound like someone thinks that it's a privilege to allow you buy a Scamp.
But some comments:

ALL a/c's require either a generator or a shore line to operate. The very few 12VDC a/c's, that are usually seen used on boats & OTR trucks, will kill your battery in a matter of minutes. I'd also question the claim of "35 lbs lighter" I'd check the specs. If it's true. maybe they know something about the strength of the current roof design that they aren't talking about. FWIW: In the RV industry, most improvements are really no more than a less expensive option for the builders.

-30 degrees is not even close to a safe temp to camp in without a shore line and lots more insulation. Until Scamp starts offering dual pane windows, a door that closes tight 2 years after buying, real insulation in the walls as well as a floor insulation package, as does BigFoot, albeit at a substantially higher price, it's strictly an above "0" Camper. We camped in our 13' @20 degrees and, without the furnace, it would have been only slightly better than a tent after a couple of hours.

If cold weather camping is your thing, look at Bigfoot.

[Egg Shopper]

Thank you for your replies everyone!

Previously when I called and talked to me salesperson with answers I got the impression he was just pulling answers out of thin air and questioned whether the info I was getting was indeed correct and he would always include asking for $500 deposit to get my order going.

I finally had the time and took an entire day to drive to Backous and back to South Dakota to #1 actually see these trailers in person, #2 check out the trailer and actually talk to my salesperson face to face and try and get accurate information.

When I told him I'd narrowed it down to either a Scamp or spend the extra money to get an Escape he asked me if I really wanted to purchase an RV made in a foreign country? I try whenever possible to but US made and realize Canada is a sovereign nation but I never heard them described that way.

Anyways when I brought up the Suburban furnace I was immediately interrupted and I didn't even get a chance to ask about other options either by Suburban or the preferred Atwood. He just didn't take the time or have the patience to listen to my concerns and just replied with generic well used lines to dismiss it. That is when my "tall tale indicator"( I use the more common description indicator but am afraid my post or reply would get edited or deleted) My tall tale indicator went off and I simply dismissed it being maybe an error code. lol

We left the sales shack to go over to the factory where he said it was ok for me to go inside sold Scamps waiting for delivery. I was a little reluctant and very careful knowing these were sold units. They were very nice and it was great to actually be in one.

When I finished looking at those trailers he hinted he was ready to go back to the sales shack so he could try and "close" me and get once again $500 deposit and do paperwork but I asked him if he could give me a tour of the factory. I thought to myself I just spent the day driving here so it would sure be nice.

Remember when I mentioned we went to a Scamp where they were installing Reflectix and he told me they were the best insulated out there and that I'd be warm at -30 degrees? My tall tale indicator was going off at a very high volume and was screaming when he said I could have water in the tanks for use also.

The rivets, axle and even door seal questions were met with the basic same response.

When I left the sales shack for the final time and got into my car I just took a deep breath in relief and driving away I just shook my head feeling like I finished dealing with some cheesy used car dealer. Again seeing Scamps in person was great but I could not get any questions answered and he kept trying to close me on the sale. If I went to a car dealer treated like that I'd just go to another dealer and I don't want to work with another salesperson at Scamp. It's too bad since they have a decent product and are in Minnesota but they seem to be stuck in the 70's or 80's in numerous ways. I was only there for 45 minutes and since I knew my questions were not going to be answered I just wanted to get back to home and get things done before the snow stayed on the ground.

Whenever I contacted Escape the info I received was quick and concise. It was just so easy! My main and immediate focus will now shift to an Escape 17B floor plan and eventually get a 19ft. It will be more expensive but it will be built exactly or pretty near how I wish and I'll just drive there to pick it up.

Oh yeah! I'll need to get my "Tall Tale Indicator" repaired and reset after that trip since it was burned out after that experience. lol

[stevebaz]

It’s a shame you get treated like that after driving such a long distance just to check out a new trailer. This is what you get when you can sell more trailers than you want to make. I love the buy American spiel when its the sales man that burns his own fellow employees. It’s a shame just leaves the door open to more outsourcing.
I also understand the manufacturers point; custom changes wreak havoc on the production line and inventory management and control. That is why there are different manufacturers making the same general product.

[Egg Shopper]

Steve, I understand the manufacture's point also but at least take the time to listen to a customer's concern or questions and just be honest. The customer can make the choice then whether it's really an issue or if they just need to figure the time and cost of modifying it they way they'd like.

I just remember being in the military and from my own sales experience that I wouldn't make claims or say certain things unless I had data or something to back it up. If I didn't know the answer I'd admit it and offer to find out and then follow thru. Oh well!

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Egg Shopper

Hello,

Yesterday I was finally able to tour the Scamp factory up in Backous, MN. It was a long drive. I have never seen a Scamp up close or been inside one and it was great but I do have a few questions for Scamp owners.

Jim is the salesman I've been working with and I recently found out unpacking a few boxes I talked to him over the phone not long after their fire a few years back.

I had driven to Backous with a few questions with what I've read on the forum.

Furnace : One concern I had was from the recent thread about very noisy Suburban furnaces and was going to ask to see if Scamp stocked or had as an option a quieter version or if I could even switch to that Atwood furnace that was mentioned. Unfortunately as soon I shared about reading that the Suburban furnaces were noisy I was cut off and he said " Suburban is the best furnaces made and they are very quiet!" "That furnace is so powerful and with the trailer being so well insulated it rarely comes on." Did they switch to a quieter Suburban or do the furnaces rarely come on due to their insulation?

I also shared with Jim that I had narrowed my choice down to a Scamp 16 foot Deluxe side dinette front bathroom that would be loaded with options or an Escape. The Escape would be more expensive but I would not have to make modifications to it and let him know how I plan to use the camper meaning extended trips and boondocking.

Lights: Regarding LED lights Jim said specifically all I'd need to do is switch the bulbs over to LED bulbs and that would be it. Is that true?

Yes this is true

Insulation: While we were taking the factory tour one worker was installing the reflectix insulation and Jim pointed out that Scamp had the best insulation of all and told me I'd be nice and warm at -30F. I replied yeah but no water in the tanks and he said water also. I read that the reflectix was pretty good insulation and figuring the size and shape of an egg trailer with ratfur would be good against hot or cold weather but being warm at -30F? Does anyone have any experience camping in a Scamp at anything close to those temperatures dry camping? Wouldn't your tanks and lines freeze at those temperatures with a stock unit? Is a stock Scamp better insulated than a stock Escape? Escape owners would you know? I don't know on that one.

I've camped in 5° weather and been nice and warm. The furnace runs a bit more but doesn't have any problems keeping up. I went through a tank of propane in 4 or 5 days at that temperature. As for water freezing not going to happen. The plumbing is inside including the fresh water tank. The drains might freeze.

Axle: I asked if there was now an option to increase the height of the axle or trailer(ground clearance) and he said that they didn't want to do it for fear it would be too high and he stopped right there so I was left a little bewildered on that.

Rivets: I asked if I traveled on gravel roads a lot if that would mean I would need to worry about replacing rivets sooner. He mentioned that the sun did more damage in exposure to the caps leading to rivets needing to be replaced. I replied that when not in use the trailer would be stored in a garage and he said the rivets should last a lifetime then.

A few changes I noticed and asked Jim about. I noticed these new really tall rooftop air conditioners and he said they switched to Dometic since they are 30 pounds lighter and have good output. (Personally I'd rather have a low profile A/C unit that does not detract from the aero shape of the egg that does not draw juice from a generator and is highly efficient if that is even possible) I don't know.

Scamp also switch the cabinet and door handle hardware for their Deluxe package. They are narrower so you can get your fingers behind and get a better grasp. I was very impressed with the Deluxe units. The woodwork is solid and seems very well made. I checked out the beds and everything else in the campers and was really impressed. I like the shape of the Scamps too.

So, aside from being asked for a deposit 5 times and just go ahead and do paperwork, not being able to ask questions and left with a few more questions unanswered all within 45 minutes it was nice to finally see various new Scamps in person. If I decide Scamp I have an idea how I'd slightly modify the exterior to make it a little different but I need to check Escape next.

[Ken C]

Escape insulation from deserthawk posted 2012

"I just happened to have email them asking them about insulation, "Our standard insulation offers an R5 Insulation value and we offer the Extra Insulation with thermal Windows. The extra insulation is an RV/Marine foil insulation and has an R15 insulation value." -Escape Trailer Industries Ltd
"

You have to pay more money, as an option, to get the R-15 reflectix, then you can pay a little more, as an option, to get the R-15 plus thermal windows. The standard insulation is foam backed vinyl. It's so nice to not talk to a salesperson when you contact Escape. From what I have read so far, the standard Scamp insulation beats the standard Escape R5 insulation.

Did Scamp talk about their new expansion posted on their facebook? It Looks pretty nice.

[Egg Shopper]

Ken, That new expansion building is the cabinet shop and have 3 carpenters working in there. One of the questions asked was if they previously sub contracted out their cabinets and they have always made them in house. I didn't make it to see that building with the urgency to get a deposit from me and make a sale but those cabinets are beautiful, solid and seem to be very well made. It's definitely a strong point for Scamp.

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Escape insulation from deserthawk posted 2012

"I just happened to have email them asking them about insulation, "Our standard insulation offers an R5 Insulation value and we offer the Extra Insulation with thermal Windows. The extra insulation is an RV/Marine foil insulation and has an R15 insulation value." -Escape Trailer Industries Ltd
"

You have to pay more money, as an option, to get the R-15 reflectix, then you can pay a little more, as an option, to get the R-15 plus thermal windows. The standard insulation is foam backed vinyl. It's so nice to not talk to a salesperson when you contact Escape. From what I have read so far, the standard Scamp insulation beats the standard Escape R5 insulation.

Did Scamp talk about their new expansion posted on their facebook? It Looks pretty nice.

The upgrade to thermapane windows includes the r15 insulation in the Escape. Why have a insulated wall and uninsulated windows? You lose the efficiency.

[Ken C]

Thanks, it sure looks nice. Glad to see them expanding. About the scamp a/c, I would think you could ask them for the low profile coleman polar cub a/c if that's what you prefer. Happy shopping

For Jim, Escape allows you to have it either way. Walls only or both wall and windows. They posted this on the escape forum. I assume each owner has their own reason for their choice.

Edit, thinking aloud here maybe one reason is to save weight if thermal windows weigh more.

[Egg Shopper]

Ken, The more I think about it I'll just eliminate Scamp and option out an Escape 17B with the thermal windows and other options. That way I'm set up and ready to go. It will be so much easier for me! Everyone's different in their expectations and needs and that's why there are many great choices out there in fiberglass trailers.

[Ken C]

Lynn,
Escape will give you a shipping quote if you aren't able to drive there. Just send them your zip and town. They can combine delivery loads with other customers if they are in your part of the country, this lowers the shipping cost. Didn't know if you were aware of that or not, so just passing it along. Keep us posted.

[Egg Shopper]

Ken, I appreciate that but when making a big dollar purchase like this I try and go there myself at some point in the process in an attempt to establish a relationship whether I'm buying or selling. I'll keep you posted though. Can't wait!

[glennco]

We bought our scamp used and had the factory install the suburban furnace for us. It's unfortunate you weren't able to work with the owner, you would have gotten some more straight answers anyway.

There is no doubt the reason scamp doesn't offer to swap out major equipment is two-fold. 1: simplifying the manufacturing process as was stated previously. 2: lower costs by buying in bulk.

[glennco]

No matter what though, scamp builds trailers how they build them. They've been doing it for years and they don't make changes without a lot of thought.

When we were there, the owner talked to us at length about the move to fiamma awnings, a future move to LED lights, and a lot of other topics.

Quite frankly I like what scamp is building, but if I were buying new I'd be concerned about service after the sale with scamp. The lack of returned emails and calls can be just frustrating.

[Terry G]

Egg Shopper, Hopefully somebody at Scamp notices your post about your visit and puts it on the board for everyone to see. Salesmen like that are one reason why I would rather go to a buying service to buy a new car than ever again play games with a dealer. (Another reason is that it's usually cheaper.) That sort of BS might have worked at one time but these days everyone can do their own research at sites like this. But I guess that anyone who walks into a sales situation these days without having acquired adequate information is that salesman's rightful prey.