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Old 11-08-2019, 12:52 PM   #101
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A rhino would be perfect for a narcoleptic. And getting back to the original theme of this thread, I seriously doubt you would be bothered by any vicious killer dogs. (Or vicious people!)

I agree. Change is slow and often painful, but communities in America are becoming less provincial, mostly because of the automobile, television, and now the internet. We can't learn to accept people's differences unless we are exposed to them.

The service animal thing is about trust too. Apparently it's very easy to purchase a vest, and even though there are laws in place against misrepresenting your animal, the laws are weak. I'm sure there are people who would prefer we have more aggressive enforcement.

Personally, if I owned a business I would have a sign at the door that said "Well-mannered people and well-mannered dogs are welcome. Bad manners will get both ejected." Neither people nor dogs would need a vest.

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Unfortunately, those who demand tolerance for divergent practices are seldom willing to extend tolerance to those with traditional values.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:34 PM   #102
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It can go the other way too. I had a friend who took her 85-year old mother to a restaurant. The mother was in a wheelchair. They didn't notice that the handicap hang tag permit they used was expired, but the current one was in their possession. A very aggressive female cop came in the restaurant and gave them a ton of grief, embarrassing everyone including the cop's partner who kept trying to get the aggressive cop to back off, even after they found and produced the current permit.

"Would you like a lecture for dessert, ma'am?"

There are jerks everywhere. Some have vests, some have permits, some have badges. Fortunately, I believe, they are a very small minority.

Alan: Chickens are definitely service animals. Comfort animals to be specific. I like to serve them deep fried with mashed potatoes and gravy.

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Old 11-08-2019, 01:42 PM   #103
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Unfortunately, those who demand tolerance for divergent practices are seldom willing to extend tolerance to those with traditional values.
I think you're correct. The key word being "demand", and as other's have said, the sense of privilege and entitlement some people have is pretty noxious.

I'm a live and let live kind of guy, although I do believe there are and should be limits on what is acceptable public behavior.

Having said that, I do believe that I personally should be exempt from all laws. And there should be a lane on the freeway that only I'm allowed to use.

All in good fun,

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Old 11-08-2019, 06:08 PM   #104
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Might be a bit of a problem with the not present. I used to get a lot of flak over a girl friend. She was wheel chair confined. I did love to hang with her, and would have other comments about people and places there. But I also helped her go do things on her own. That meant dropping her off and picking her up. Needed the large spots to get her to the car door in the wheel chair so used her hang tag for that. But people would see the other side of the trip and give me flak for being an able bodied person parking in handicapped.
I was not referring to situations like you describe here. I was referring to people who are NOT handicapped but have a placard because they care for a handicapped individual. And while they are not handicapped themselves, they use the placard when they are alone. I see people who can walk more easily than I can frequently doing so. I am sure that you are not so naive as to believe this doesn’t happen frequently. And the real downside is that a truly handicapped person may be deprived of an accessible parking space because of one of these jerks.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:32 PM   #105
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I have a handicapped placard, but generally I can find a spot that's nearby so that somebody with more difficulty can used the marked parking space.
In any event, assumptions are generally made with no evidence and likely wrong.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:47 PM   #106
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OK, I have one big problem with using pythons as service animals of any kind.

How do you get the little vests to stay on?

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Old 11-08-2019, 08:13 PM   #107
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OK, I have one big problem with using pythons as service animals of any kind.

How do you get the little vests to stay on?

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Staple gun.
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:32 PM   #108
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I have a handicapped placard, but generally I can find a spot that's nearby so that somebody with more difficulty can used the marked parking space.
In any event, assumptions are generally made with no evidence and likely wrong.
Glenn, I totally agree -- and I believe it's best to assume that even people who appear able-bodied have a legitimate reason for using the placard and spot, even though I've known actual people who had the placard and got it under false pretenses. It's not about them, it's about the kind of person I want to be.

I don't have a placard, but I do have physical issues, and there are times when being able to use a handicap spot close to my destination would be really nice.

In fact there have been times when I couldn't find a parking spot near enough, and I just turn around and go home because I know walking any distance is going to be difficult and painful.

Most of the time looking at me you wouldn't think I had a problem. I could probably get a placard, and I know I shouldn't care what other people think, but pride, and knowing that people might judge me harshly keeps me from applying. I suppose there will come a time when I will succumb.



--Harold
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:32 PM   #109
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I was not referring to situations like you describe here. I was referring to people who are NOT handicapped but have a placard because they care for a handicapped individual. And while they are not handicapped themselves, they use the placard when they are alone. I see people who can walk more easily than I can frequently doing so. ....
I too observe what I believe to be this situation. People parking in the H spot with a placard maybe not their own, and then walking with no problem whatsoever.

I know what I can see.

But what can I not see?

For a CA handicapped parking permit (as one example), the regulations state in part:

You may also qualify if you specific documented visual problems...


So I cannot see what someone else cannot see. And neither can anyone else.

I don't often quote Bible verses (and its a possible violation of the rules here), but Matthew 7:1-3 comes to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai in Seattle View Post
OK, I have one big problem with using pythons as service animals of any kind.

How do you get the little vests to stay on?..
IKR! They just slither off!
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:44 PM   #110
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I too observe what I believe to be this situation. People parking in the H spot with a placard maybe not their own, and then walking with no problem whatsoever.

I know what I can see.

But what can I not see?

For a CA handicapped parking permit (as one example), the regulations state in part:

You may also qualify if you specific documented visual problems...


So I cannot see what someone else cannot see. And neither can anyone else.

I don't often quote Bible verses (and its a possible violation of the rules here), but Matthew 7:1-3 comes to mind.



IKR! They just slither off!

If a person's vision is poor enough to qualify them as being disabled, should they actually be driving? I understand this is from the land of granola but, Really????
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:30 PM   #111
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If a person's vision is poor enough to qualify them as being disabled, should they actually be driving? I understand this is from the land of granola but, Really????

It wouldn't be so they could drive. It would be so their driver could park close to their appointment.

I have to carry an ID card in my wallet, in addition to the placard.
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:53 PM   #112
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OK, I have one big problem with using pythons as service animals of any kind.

How do you get the little vests to stay on?

BEST
"K"

Shrink tubing or a staple gun. maybe drywall screws


No wait... how about piercings?
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Old 11-09-2019, 05:33 AM   #113
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I have a handicapped placard, but generally I can find a spot that's nearby so that somebody with more difficulty can used the marked parking space.
In any event, assumptions are generally made with no evidence and likely wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Harold View Post
Glenn, I totally agree -- and I believe it's best to assume that even people who appear able-bodied have a legitimate reason for using the placard and spot, even though I've known actual people who had the placard and got it under false pretenses. It's not about them, it's about the kind of person I want to be.

I don't have a placard, but I do have physical issues, and there are times when being able to use a handicap spot close to my destination would be really nice.

In fact there have been times when I couldn't find a parking spot near enough, and I just turn around and go home because I know walking any distance is going to be difficult and painful.

Most of the time looking at me you wouldn't think I had a problem. I could probably get a placard, and I know I shouldn't care what other people think, but pride, and knowing that people might judge me harshly keeps me from applying. I suppose there will come a time when I will succumb.



--Harold
And both of you are making assumptions that I am making assumptions. I have seen people with placards drop a handicapped person off at the door and then take a nearby handicapped space on multiple occasions. I’m talking about a 20’s someone. If they are going to provide door service they can walk like any non-handicapped person and again drive to the door when the time to leave comes. On one occasion, I was waiting outside for my wife and saw that same person come out, retrieve the car and drive to the door. So why did he need to occupy a space that may have been needed by a legitimately handicapped person? And I have known people (my father-in-law being one of them) who have no handicap whatsoever brag that they use the placard when they do not have the handicapped family member with them. I do not rely on assumptions; I base my statements in hard evidence. And I have known people who have these placards because they begged their doctor to give them a justification note. I am not saying every placard holder “abuses the system,” but many do and that is NOT an assumption and NOT “likely wrong.” Anyone who thinks the ONLY people who use placards are truly handicapped are handicapped themselves......they are visually impaired.
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Old 11-09-2019, 05:36 AM   #114
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If a person's vision is poor enough to qualify them as being disabled, should they actually be driving? I understand this is from the land of granola but, Really????
Of course. Why else would the banks have Braille on their drive-up Windows?
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:20 AM   #115
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If a person's vision is poor enough to qualify them as being disabled, should they actually be driving? I understand this is from the land of granola but, Really????
A fine example of the pot calling the kettle black !!
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:33 AM   #116
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Steve Dunham: ikr? Being one of those people allowed to drive who also has low vision, it's like this: you cannot see lack of contrast very well. Many curbs are gray, against a gray sidewalk or road.

Sure, some are painted, but some aren't. The worst ones are those that are only an inch or so high. You can easily trip on them and they're not big enough to cast enough shadow to alert you to the small change in height.

I've tripped on such small things several times, and it's very painful. If you were drivng, a 1" road bump would be irrelevant. But walking in a parking lot, a shallow pothole, a small sidewalk change in height, even a rock can make you turn your ankle or catch your toe and if you are also osteoporetic, you can snap a limb in the fall.

So while it seems really odd, it's perfectly possible to need a close-in parking spot (where the curbs and things are "usually" painted bright colors, and ramps are "usually" flush without little steps) but stll be able to drive. You'd ignore little potholes, small rocks, etc. when driving, and the car would hardly notice.



As for the service vests for pythons, I realized, you could use glue, too. Eyelash glue might be the ticket.

They used staples to keep the antlers on the mice in Scrooged; seemed to work fine.

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Old 11-09-2019, 08:48 AM   #117
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Dr. Harold:

Handicapped placards are free. Your doctor has to prescribe them, though, and it's up to her to determine if you get a short-term one for something temporary or a longer one. The next time you're seeing a doctor, you might consider asking. That's all it takes. Find out if the doctor agrees with you--sometimes they don't. Often they do. They don't know your pain or ability to take medications...they don't charge you more for asking, and the placards are free. The license plates for permanent disabilities cost you, though, but only one time. Unlike vanity plates, you don't pay extra for them every year.

Cheaters: When some people abuse privileges, it makes it worse for all of us. I deplore that. Same as with service animals--those who have nasty dogs that perform no service. Placard abusers. It's a shame.

But sometimes when you think someone is just fine, in fact they have a condition that allows them to do a quick chore or errand, but if they had to stand or walk far or for long they would be in pain for the rest of the day, unable to do other things they need to do. That can be a hard one to judge.

They are often quite happy to be out and about -- at first -- until the aches set in and they must go back home. If they have to run several errands, they may very much need to park close to allow them to finish what would be a snap to better-abled people.

CPW: braille at a drive-thru window? For a blind passenger to lean over and enter their passcode without telling it to the driver?

It's as easy to assume someone is right and we don't yet understand how, as to assume they're obviously wrong.



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Old 11-09-2019, 09:08 AM   #118
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Steve Dunham: ikr? Being one of those people allowed to drive who also has low vision, it's like this: you cannot see lack of contrast very well. Many curbs are gray, against a gray sidewalk or road.

Sure, some are painted, but some aren't. The worst ones are those that are only an inch or so high. You can easily trip on them and they're not big enough to cast enough shadow to alert you to the small change in height.

I've tripped on such small things several times, and it's very painful. If you were drivng, a 1" road bump would be irrelevant. But walking in a parking lot, a shallow pothole, a small sidewalk change in height, even a rock can make you turn your ankle or catch your toe and if you are also osteoporetic, you can snap a limb in the fall.

So while it seems really odd, it's perfectly possible to need a close-in parking spot (where the curbs and things are "usually" painted bright colors, and ramps are "usually" flush without little steps) but stll be able to drive. You'd ignore little potholes, small rocks, etc. when driving, and the car would hardly notice.



As for the service vests for pythons, I realized, you could use glue, too. Eyelash glue might be the ticket.

They used staples to keep the antlers on the mice in Scrooged; seemed to work fine.

BEST
"K"
You missed my point completely . It had nothing to do with making light of vision impaired people . It had nothing to do with handicap permits or handicapped parking
It had everything to do with equating people who try to do the right thing with granola eating idiots . There will always be people / places that lead and people or places who do nothing but sit back and criticize.
This is a fine example !!

I also have issues with my closeup vision ,but have no problem driving so I actually understand the issue.
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Old 11-09-2019, 10:22 AM   #119
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Carl,

My comments were not directed at you personally. I'm sorry that you took it that way.

My comment was about people in general who make those gross assumptions about the handicapped, and I too have known a few personally, as well as a couple of gross abusers of handicap placards.

One assumption I do make is that all of us here on this forum are friends, and I would never intentionally take anyone here to task. I'm sorry if it appeared that way.

--Harold
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Old 11-09-2019, 12:02 PM   #120
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I have a handicapped placard, but generally I can find a spot that's nearby so that somebody with more difficulty can used the marked parking space.
In any event, assumptions are generally made with no evidence and likely wrong.
Same here. I have genetic issues that are not always seen. (Both are semi auto-immune.)I put signs on my car that say not to judge people who do not seem disabled. I have Dupuytrens Contracture in my hands, so pushing a grocery cart a distance is painful, especially on lumpy parking lots. I do not shake hands anymore; it is too painful.

I also have Ledderhose Disease where I grow lumps on the bottom of my feet. So far, I have been able to control the size of the lumps through radiation and some medicine that seems to work for me but not others. However those lumps appear as fast as a couple of hours, so I can leave the house and be limping after a grocery store trip.

No service animal yet, but we do travel with cats. They just stay in the camper when we are gone. They don't bark while we are away .

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