Signs of the Times

[AlanKilian]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

One of the recommendations in the link was a Mazda CX-50. The article says "starting under $30K" and "maximum towing 3500#." What it misses is you can't have both. The entry point for 3500# towing is $39K MSRP. Typical of these kinds of articles.

_Typical_ is dismissive of the actual data they provided that you are misrepresenting.

From the article:
Jeep Cherokee $30,000 base price, 4,500 pound towing.
Ford Escape Maximum Towing Capacity: 3,500 lbs $29,000

I'm a little baffled when people who are typically very strict about checking axle weight, tongue weight, gross vehicle weight are critical of an publication and don't even seem to be bothered to read the thing.

"2022 Jeep Cherokee

Maximum Towing Capacity: 4,500 lbs

The Jeep Cherokee is one of the most familiar SUV models in the entire SUV market.

Though it’s on the larger end of the small SUV spectrum, it can still be considered a small SUV since it’s classified as a compact crossover SUV.

The 2022 Jeep Cherokee tops our list of small SUVs with the highest towing capacity.

This vehicle can tow up to 4,500 lbs, which is near the towing range of many midsize SUVs.

Along with being a powerful small SUV, the Jeep Cherokee is a sleek and stylish city vehicle that can be driven off-road.

As a popular Jeep vehicle, it’s no surprise that Jeep would make this vehicle capable of being driven well on rougher terrain.

For drivers that want more of an everyday vehicle for commutes and city driving, the Jeep Cherokee is an SUV that can be easy to drive

It also has many helpful and convenient features that are smoothly integrated within the cabin of the vehicle.

The Jeep Cherokee dashboard and entertainment system are easy to navigate and provide many features for accessing media and drive data.

Since it’s one of the larger SUVs on this list, it’s probably not surprising to know the Jeep Cherokee’s fuel economy is below average.

The Jeep Cherokee has always been sold in a relatively affordable price range.

The 2022 Jeep Cherokee starts at around $30, 000 with standard features.

Some of the standout features of the Jeep Cherokee include Wi-Fi, Apple CarPlay, parking sensors, heated seats, and turn signal mirrors."

"2022 Ford Escape

Maximum Towing Capacity: 3,500 lbs

Though there are other small SUVs with a maximum towing capacity of 3,500 lbs, we’re including the Ford Escape in this list due to its relatively low price.

We’ve already talked about luxury vehicles priced over $40,000, so we wanted to include a much lower priced small SUV that can tow a sizable load.

If pricing is a main issue for you, it should be good news to know the 2022 Ford Escape has a starting price of around $29,000."

[M_C]

Be aware the Maverick hybrid and turbocharged 2.0 require premium gas, Ford states it can run on 91 octane but expect a loss in performance.

[Catya]

Although I have not had a chance to use it for towing yet (nor have I had a chance to take my Scamp out camping yet). I got a used 2021 Passport Sport AWD, which will have a 5000# capacity once I add the transmission cooler, and has a 3500# capacity as is (500# tongue weight).
The Sport has the least bells and whistles (oh no! I have to open and close the tail gate manually--whatever will. do?). I forget what the payload was, but it was plenty. I won't get impressive gas mileage with it, but it feels very safe. I paid $33k for it at 26k miles.
I LOVE the thing. It has great visibility, a super comfortable seat, and is amazing in the snow. And one of the goofier things I love about it is that I don't have to climb up to get in it (I'm 5'7"). I can just slide onto the seat. The biggest problem is that it's black (with copper undertone) and I need to buy some Secret Service-esque sunglasses to go with my black SUV.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Catya

Although I have not had a chance to use it for towing yet (nor have I had a chance to take my Scamp out camping yet). I got a used 2021 Passport Sport AWD, which will have a 5000# capacity once I add the transmission cooler, and has a 3500# capacity as is (500# tongue weight).
The Sport has the least bells and whistles (oh no! I have to open and close the tail gate manually--whatever will. do?). I forget what the payload was, but it was plenty. I won't get impressive gas mileage with it, but it feels very safe. I paid $33k for it at 26k miles.
I LOVE the thing. It has great visibility, a super comfortable seat, and is amazing in the snow. And one of the goofier things I love about it is that I don't have to climb up to get in it (I'm 5'7"). I can just slide onto the seat. The biggest problem is that it's black (with copper undertone) and I need to buy some Secret Service-esque sunglasses to go with my black SUV.

Well done!! I hear you about seats. Our Pilot has the most comfortable, supportive seats of any vehicle I’ve ever owned, even in base trim without all the electric adjustment options. That’s important in a vehicle you’ll take on long trips. Glad to hear that hasn’t changed on the newer ones. And yes, Honda’s AWD drive system is one of the better ones in this class. Congrats!

As to color, that’s a running joke in our house, too. Our Pilot is a light brown with a tan interior, which I happen to like. We test drove it together but left it at the dealer after purchase to get a couple of towing accessories installed. When I brought it home a few days later, my wife said, “It’s brown. I thought it was silver. I didn’t want brown.” I realized the late afternoon sun during the test drive had distorted the color. She reminds me often that it was supposed to be silver.

[Raz]

Being a Nissan Frontier owner I follow the prices. It wasn't long ago an entry level 2wd 4cyl Frontier was less than $20k The entry level today is a 6cyl 2wd for 10k more.

Both GM and Ford missed their earning expectations and the used car prices are dropping. Add to that the recently announced lay offs and high personal debt load. Headed for recession? Good or bad, I think things will be quite different in 6 months.

[Perryb67]

We need to remember about Death, Inflation, and Taxes.

In 1967, I almost purchased a new VW Karmann Gaia convertible for $2,300. Later purchased a 64 though.

In 1973 my F250 Tow Truck Special was sold for $2,800.

What were the prices for equivalent models in:

1983
1993
2003
2013

The price is all relative to inflation, and inflation has alway been present, it’s nothing new.

Enjoy,

Perry

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

We need to remember about Death, Inflation, and Taxes.

The price is all relative to inflation, and inflation has alway been present, it’s nothing new.

Enjoy,

Perry

Inflation is non-linear, and yes, this could be one of those periods of above average price growth. That is my hope, actually, because eventually it flattens out and wages catch up.

I do see some additional factors at work in the vehicle market, though, that we’ve never seen before in any of our lifetimes. The biggest is the transition from ICE to BEV, which is being accelerated by government cash rather than market forces alone. Government subsidies drive inflation directly. In addition, uncertainty about how it’s going to play out makes manufacturers cautious, and less profitable ICE models, mostly low-priced sedans, are dropping like flies. Fewer choices contribute to higher prices.

[ShelbyM]

On another forum someone posted that a new 2023 Nissan Titan was being offered for $12K below MSRP. I doubt that's common but things seem to be improving. At least there are vehicles on the lots to choose from. That wasn't the case this past summer when I was shopping.

[Meadowlark]

Off topic, but, Jon in AZ, you'll love Korea. I lived there for two years, courtesy of the US Army and was pee'ed when it wouldn't send me back.
THe people are friendly, the food is terrific, just about everybody speaks enough English to tell you where the bathroom is. And they all seem to have relatives living in the US.

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Meadowlark

Off topic, but, Jon in AZ, you'll love Korea. I lived there for two years, courtesy of the US Army and was pee'ed when it wouldn't send me back.
THe people are friendly, the food is terrific, just about everybody speaks enough English to tell you where the bathroom is. And they all seem to have relatives living in the US.

I retired from the USAF since I knew I was hot for an assignment to Korea and didn't want to go there. Years later, our son was assigned to Korea so we visited. Loved it there! The South Korean people seem to appreciate the USA, and it was so easy to get around on their public transportation.
I did appreciate the food and even the Soju. :-)

[Radar1]

You can still get a decent SUV tow vehicle for less than $40,000. We have a 2017 Dodge Durango with 6,200 lb tow capacity.
Just for kicks, I decided to build and price a new one (2022) on the Dodge website. With the cash rebate, the SXT model came out at $36,285 with the 6,200 lb towing package added. (It can be upped to 7,200 lbs or 8,700 lbs towing with the V-8 options)
It even includes the heated seats that Dean likes!

[Jennifer Minogue]

I don't get the love affair with houses on wheels. I feel guilty even having electricity. Being in my casita is luxury compared to a tent, even without power. Does NO ONE think of global warming and carbon footprints?? I guess not.

[oldwave]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Minogue

I don't get the love affair with houses on wheels. I feel guilty even having electricity. Being in my casita is luxury compared to a tent, even without power. Does NO ONE think of global warming and carbon footprints?? I guess not.

We are living in ours for 5 months out of the year
My solar install has less foot print than most .
While we are relatively environmentally aware
My daily driver is a Prius Prime , not sure what your poin Is. Go back to a tent then.

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by M_C

Be aware the Maverick hybrid and turbocharged 2.0 require premium gas, Ford states it can run on 91 octane but expect a loss in performance.

They only "require" 87 octane, not 91.
"Your vehicle operates on regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87.
Some fuel stations, particularly those in high altitude areas, offer fuels posted as regular unleaded gasoline with an octane rating below 87. The use of these fuels could result in engine damage that will not be covered by the vehicle Warranty.
For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer."

[Radar1]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Minogue

I don't get the love affair with houses on wheels. I feel guilty even having electricity. Being in my casita is luxury compared to a tent, even without power. Does NO ONE think of global warming and carbon footprints?? I guess not.

Doesn't the word Casita translate to "little house" and it's on wheels?

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by Jennifer Minogue

I don't get the love affair with houses on wheels. I feel guilty even having electricity. Being in my casita is luxury compared to a tent, even without power. Does NO ONE think of global warming and carbon footprints?? I guess not.

None of us are "green" when we are pulling our trailers.

[Jennifer Minogue]

What I was getting at was we don't need to pull 30 feet of house around to have fun. Our first egg trailer was only 13 feet and was sure better than a tent. Our 17 foot Casita looks positively miniscule at a lot of campgrounds where we are surrounded by rigs that are 30 feet long. And we are usually the only little trailer. And even tent trailers are rare now.

I think we are in the golden age of trailers (and McMansions, for that matter) and it won't last. I came across a few of my parents' ration coupons for heating oil from WW2 (left over from when rationing stopped ). There were no leftover gas coupons. A reminder of what might be in our future.....

And you can tell I'm old because I think university students rushing off to the Caribbean for spring break weird. Either it is super cheap (cost of fuel being low compared to what it was when I was that age) or they have a high tolerance for debt.🤣

[jerrybob]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

None of us are "green" when we are pulling our trailers.

Apparently........you've never seen me moving on to the next campsite after a fun night at the campfire.

[Travellers]

The majority of us on this forum have small trailers that are well suited to the growing list of electric vehicles (mostly SUV’s and half tons) that have tow capacities. It will be interesting to see the migration over the next decade of people moving to electric vehicles for towing their little trailers. We are definitely seeing more on the roads and in campsites or charge stations but it’s still not common.

Right now the number 1 sold car in California is an electric SUV with a 3500 pound tow capacity and apparently the tow package is a very popular option. I wonder how that will affect the demand for small trailers?

Anyway, interesting times.

[jerrybob]

130 years ago......the automobile was the "solution to polution" due to the horse maure problem in big cities......the automobile was gonna solve that problem and it did.......at the time......they didn't realize they were exchanging one type of polution for another. Now.....electric vehicles are the future......wonder what are grandkids will be saying in 100 years......."What are we gonna do with all these batteries?"