Smoking Batteries (was: Battery problem in our Parkliner)

[Mr. W.]

This thread has been very interesting to read -- sometimes brilliant, sometimes shudder-worthy. It has bordered on bashing ParkLiner, but then backed away from that. In many industries, from RVs to autos, restaurants to hospitals, there is often a gap between "best practices" and "what works". The practice of putting the battery in an unvented interior compartment is not new, not unusual, and not unique to ParkLiner. I have seen the same thing on dozens of different trailers from different manufacturers. The possibility of a problem exists, but doesn't usually happen. But it CAN.

What I hope is that companies who are not following best practices with batteries will catch this message, and learn. Don't forget that most of the people who design and manufacture trailers are not licensed chemical engineers -- they are hands-on nuts-and-bolts people who hear the call of the open road and the song of the forest. We can help them learn the intricacies, or we can be critical of them for not knowing what we didn't know, either.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Mimi Lee

Scott, you are on to something. I can confirm the cooling fan kicked on that evening. (Hindsight is 20/20). We did open the converter manual at that point to see if that was normal but there was nothing that called out to us the fan running was an emergency and not SOP due to it being warmer weather.

If only I knew then what I know now... As I have said many times

It will be very interesting to see what happens when you monitor for temperature this weekend.

Have fun, be safe (of course)

These cooling fans are designed to come on in what I will call "normal" operation. The fan in the converter in my camper ( wyfco ) will come on, and cycle on and off just from turning a few lights on in the camper. Of course that is a load on it that is also in addition to the power it is sending to the battery, even if all it is doing in running in "maintenance output".

Point is, there was at least an implication that the fan kicking on may have contributed to the failure of the batteries. I'm seeing this as a bit of a stretch. How hot does it get under the hood of your car on a hot summer day ? How many of us have run an AGM battery pretty low in the car, and then subsequently had that battery get hit with the rapid charging that occurs from the high output alternator ? This is "normal" operating parameters for this stuff, and we don't see widespread failure of batteries in these circumstances.

......just some more food for thought.....

[Tim Wood]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Or not. Perhaps the issue really hasn't been about the battery, but that Parkliner does not isolate and vent the battery.
Perhaps, those who have other brand trailers could simply post in this thread, what their manufacturer does. We've already learned that batteries should be contained and vented.
Any event, mine is outside on the back bumper.

Glenn, Would you mind posting a picture of your battery that is mounted on the bumper ?

[gmw photos]

Would it be practical to mount the battery on the tongue of these trailers ?

[Thomas G.]

As a point of reference, my 1985 UHaul has the battery inside the living compartment. The battery is located in a gasketed, vented battery box.

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

These cooling fans are designed to come on in what I will call "normal" operation. The fan in the converter in my camper ( wyfco ) will come on, and cycle on and off just from turning a few lights on in the camper. Of course that is a load on it that is also in addition to the power it is sending to the battery, even if all it is doing in running in "maintenance output".

Point is, there was at least an implication that the fan kicking on may have contributed to the failure of the batteries. I'm seeing this as a bit of a stretch. How hot does it get under the hood of your car on a hot summer day ? How many of us have run an AGM battery pretty low in the car, and then subsequently had that battery get hit with the rapid charging that occurs from the high output alternator ? This is "normal" operating parameters for this stuff, and we don't see widespread failure of batteries in these circumstances.

......just some more food for thought.....

I just checked with Optima battery site. " no current limit as long as battery temperature remains below 125°F"
From my understanding of compartment it's pretty tight with 2 batteries and a converter. There's no large opening for air movement I believe is also true. The converter starts delivering lots of current, it gets hot turns on the fan. The fan circulates hot air raising the temperature of the compartment. The batteries start getting warm, and cycle continues until something has to give. It's called thermal run away.

The components in the converter probably have a temperature limit of 257°F and at least 194°F.

As for the battery under the hood. Next time you lift the hood of your tow put you hand on the battery and see how hot it is. There's so much air around the battery and lots air movement when moving that it's not going to get that hot.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Tim Wood

Glenn, Would you mind posting a picture of your battery that is mounted on the bumper ?

Battery box sits on plywood base that sits on welded angle iron.

[Casita Greg]

Galvanized sheet metal plumber's tape for battery hold downs...really? If they shift position you'll get a quick lesson in welding 101.

[Tim Wood]

Glen, Thanks for the pic I appreciate that, I take it that its a factory install ? That could be another alternative and would be cheaper than going to the tongue, at least for me. I did think about putting the battery on the back, but didn't know anyone else did.

[Glenn Baglo]

Yes. As installed at the factory.

[Tim Wood]

Glen, Do you know if Escape puts batteries on all their trailers on the rear ?

[Ken C]

Some on the tounge, some in the front storage box

[accrete]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

Would it be practical to mount the battery on the tongue of these trailers ?

FYIW...thoughts from a conversation i had with Chandler early on in our order process:

I asked Chandler if i could put a trailer-hitch style cargo box on the bumper hitch, he said he would not recommend anything over 80 lbs back there. And that for every pound on the bumper, you will be taking about 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound off the tongue weight. So it's all a balancing game. And since one of these Optima SC34DM batteries weigh in at ~60lbs for a whopping 55AH... i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say you won't get much bang for the buck if you relocated them to the back bumper (assuming you are running two like i am).

Thom

[deryk]

Chandler told me its rated for 200 pounds but Luke you said you lighten your tongue weight. I have a large box back there but wanted the size so my awning would fit in it without squashing it lol....the 95lb generator up front in the doorway helps keep my tongue weight.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Some on the tounge, some in the front storage box

Also, some with the 19' have the batteries in a sealed, vented box under one of the front seats.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Paul E Henning

The practice of putting the battery in an unvented interior compartment is not new, not unusual, and not unique to ParkLiner. I have seen the same thing on dozens of different trailers from different manufacturers.

I don't doubt that. On the other hand, I've never seen it. Both my motorhome and my (stickie) fifth-wheel have batteries within the coach body (as expected for these RV styles) and in both cases they are sealed from the interior and in locations well vented to the outside.

Originally Posted by Paul E Henning

We can help them learn the intricacies, or we can be critical of them for not knowing what we didn't know, either.

I'm all for supporting learning, and I don't expect people to have some sort of magic intuition about technology outside of their area of expertise. I also think it's reasonable to expect a designer of a commercial product to read the application documentation for the components which they use... especially the ones which involve obvious hazards.

I did know that the batteries should be vented, because I read Optima's online documentation years ago when I was curious about AGM batteries.

[accrete]

Thought i'd post a link to my _fix_ of Parkliner #35.
I claim no Rocket Scientist title...my solution was based on personal research and also reading through related threads here at FGRV.

As you may know from past comments i'm a guy who is choosing to believe Chandler and Parkliner will pull through these growing pains and their customers will be satisfied. . . as i am.

Here is the link to a post at my build thread showing my battery bay fix.

And here is a picture of the outside of bay with lid closed. Note the rear tube venting from battery compartment out rear wall. And also the two black vents on the top of lid over the converter compartment. This was my call of going forward making some simple (and enjoyable) tweaks to an area that others had voiced concern of the original design. I have no personal issue (even with this month old trailer) doing what i can to make things right and hold no ill will toward the manufacturer/designer.




Thom

[Bob Miller]

Looks so nice that I would guess it would be about a $500 repair job at most RV shops, a bit of a stiff surprise for a new trailer buyer.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Also, some with the 19' have the batteries in a sealed, vented box under one of the front seats.

According to Jim, at least on his Escape with inside batteries, the box isn't "sealed", but it is vented.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

You should be fine, Pam. My dual 6V batteries are under my dinette seat, in a box vented outside. It is a close fitting lid, but not an airtight seal. There is not much gassing from a battery, and the worst thing is having it confined in one space. As long as there is a vent direct to outside, and a relatively good seal, you should be fine.

Could be worth a heads-up to Escape owners with inside batteries to take a second look now that we know how important this is.

Francesca

[Byron Kinnaman]

Good job Thom. Should be a lot safer than it was, for everything and everybody.