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Old 10-07-2017, 09:39 AM   #61
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Since all the big players in molded fiberglass are running flat out with many months to over a year's backlog, there is clearly room for all in the current boom market.

The RV market is notoriously cyclic, however, so the real test of a manufacturer's strength is how they weather the downturns. Bigfoot, for example, went into bankruptcy during the last recession. From what I've read, over-expansion just before the sudden downturn was a factor. Thankfully, they found buyers and are still in business. Scamp and Casita have weathered many ups and downs over the years.

The second challenge with any of these smaller companies is managing transitions in leadership. It only takes one generation to bring down a successful business. EggCamper has its limitations, but it is a good product, and it saddens me to see it die without a successor. Still hoping the right buyer comes along...
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:13 AM   #62
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Missouri
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cool heads prevail

Right now the arms industry is experiencing boom times we have the big-hitter of the arms race right in Columbia Mo. Larry Potterfield is a millionaire many times but in being huge any downturn can be a disastrous thing unless you have put back a bunch of money in reserves but the gobernut is watchful of that. They want their taxes!

I have seen the big-hitters get so big their cost of operation is built on the boom! Let hard times come and they are gone. We saw this in the 80s and 90s! Look at who owns newpapers now and how they operate small town newspapers are gone replaced by some guy with computers. We have a small local page but go to another town the newspaper looks the same!

An interesting fact maybe has helped Fleetwood and others are now owned by Warren Buffet and he certainly can hang in there for anything! Maybe he has been the settling factor in RV manufacturing. Let Buffet buy one of the fiberglass companies and watch what happens!

We now have record deficits costing us billions in interest expense but I cant go too far with this!

I guess open your doors everyday do the best you can put a put a little away in your rainy day fund and enjoy what you have

bob
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:16 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
I don't think there is much worry of that. When I bought my 19 in 2009, they were producing two trailers a week, and now are doing two per day. In chats over the years with Reace, my opinion is that they are being fairly smart about their growth and not overdoing it by still keeping a longer wait time, rather than trying to pump them out as fast as demand calls for.

It is a great facility now compared to where they were just 10 years ago. The indoor showroom is a great touch.
The question is not quality, its cost per unit...
Years ago, automobile companies changed models about every three years and they produced a lot more than two cars a day.
More than five complete model changes in about 10 years is a lot when producing only two trailers a day. If they could settle on a couple of their best designs, they could offer a better value at a higher profit.
Right now the exchange rate disguises the cost to some degree so that Escape still offers value for the large fiberglass buyer which may continue, even with price increases...
Look at $37000 for a Parkliner or $27000 for an HC1. It is a big country(plus a little one) so the small numbers may be able to sustain demand at any cost.

How many total Escape trailers have been produced per design?
You know what they say in the car world...
"You can have one for a million dollars or a million for a dollar each!"

Still with a market of 360,000,000 it should not be hard to find 2 buyers per day at almost any price, and having the latest model or nearly one of a kind is strong incentive.
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:20 AM   #64
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wait time

frankly I am amazed they get by with this you know the American buying public. Wait is not in our dna!

I guess the only bird getting by with things like this is Musk we will see if he ever cuts a profit!

bob
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:10 AM   #65
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Even with the current favorable exchange rate, Escapes are considerably more costly than Casitas or Scamps...
Actually, one reason we went for an Escape 21 a couple of years ago is that with the exchange rate, it wasn't that much more than getting a new, fully equipped Casita 17. Newer Escapes are a bit more expensive than our "classic" from 2 years ago, but the current exchange rates still keep them in the ballpark.

IMHO.
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:15 PM   #66
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The fiberglass manufacturers hardly have to compete with each other: this is the baby boom generation. There are more people out there every day who are retiring and want --- must have!!! --- a trailer to travel the country. They may have never had one or maybe they did, but now, they have the time and the savings to get what they want.

Escapes biggest group by age, if any little old survey is worth anything, is those at retirement followed by those near it. And the dollar in Americans' favor has helped them a great deal because that is by far most of their customers.

They do also get lots of younger people since these trailers lend themselves to boondocking and to movng around easily. Escape is also willing to customize on many items to suit the buyers and that is a big factor in their success.
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:17 PM   #67
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Newer Escapes are a bit more expensive than our "classic" from 2 years ago, but the current exchange rates still keep them in the ballpark. IMHO.
By that definition then an Oliver is just a BIT more expensive than an Escape.
Escape over the years has sucessfully used the exchange rate to hide price increases but that can only be taken so far.
If the exchange rate goes to parity or even historic rates then the
Escape will start to see price resistsnce from consumers.

Look at the list of manufacturers at the top of the page.
How many are still in business ?
Scamp by my definition is the gold standard . They are a success and are still going strong after all these years where so many others have failed.

As my Father taught me. "Just because you have the money doesn't mean you can afford something or should buy it "
That's why I don't own a $40k or $50k or $60 K fiberglass trailer even though the cost is only a little bit more.
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:44 PM   #68
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steve my dad always told me it doesn't matter what you make its what you do with it after you get it.


I wish my son would listen at 55 he has owned 5 houses none of them paid for he lives in a 300k job now still owes on it now building a 500k job! Drives me crazy but hey no worries right?
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:46 PM   #69
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by the way when the day comes I buy a 50k camper please do a mental check on me! I love my 5k Scamp no b/r easy to tow to the nearest Walmarts for the night!! cheap minds think alike!!


bob


that 13f Scamp looks redicilous!!!
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:07 PM   #70
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by the way when the day comes I buy a 50k camper please do a mental check on me! I love my 5k Scamp no b/r easy to tow to the nearest Walmarts for the night!! cheap minds think alike!!


bob


that 13f Scamp looks redicilous!!!
Not cheap but FRUGAL. I don't look upon my FG trailer as a status symbol to flaunt over others . All I want is a trailer where I can sleep soundly , that doesn't leak , that goes from point A to point B and doesn't cost a fortune. A 5K Scamp can do anything a $40 K trailer can do IMHO.
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:17 PM   #71
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fun

steve I hauled my 13f Scamp home my neighbor saw it I could see what he thought in his eyes. I love it!

Anyway he has the 60k truck and the 70k motel on wheels he goes to the same campground spends an hour setting it up, the sat tv gets all done hits the camper not to be seen.

I am sorry this is not camping! I really don't know what it is called? I look at his rig and have to wonder what the payments are and what the interest is to put on the show. Oh I camp for 8bux he spends 25 to 30! another expense!

Maybe we need folks like him to keep the economy going.

bob

that 13f Scamp looks ridiculous!!!
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:38 PM   #72
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A 5K Scamp can do anything a $40 K trailer can do IMHO.
Yeah, but the $40k trailer has a bigger bed. At least I hope it does. Raz
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:46 PM   #73
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I don't see the point of this discussion.
If somebody has the money and the desire to buy a particular trailer or RV, what's it to us?
Are we trying to justify our purchase and pat ourselves on the back?
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Old 10-07-2017, 01:51 PM   #74
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I don't see the point of this discussion.
If somebody has the money and the desire to buy a particular trailer or RV, what's it to us?
Are we trying to justify our purchase and pat ourselves on the back?
NO and without need of explanation !
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:28 AM   #75
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I
If somebody has the money and the desire to buy a particular trailer or RV, what's it to us?
Are we trying to justify our purchase and pat ourselves on the back?
Exactly. I worked hard for many years to be able to afford what I can. I made a very thoroughly thought out choice considering the level of quality vs the cost I was willing to pay for, finding Escape fit that bill very well. My Escape should not be knocked for its cost (which for me as a Canadian is not at an exchange discount like for US folks).

There is nothing wrong with a $5k Scamp if it works well for you, great that you make it work, and you can make memories with it. However, there is something wrong with disrespecting the choice of those to buy other brands.

To take this thinking even further, and following the belief that I made the right choice for us, is to go on to an Oliver, or an Airstream, where there are some more improvements, which for some are well worth it to them. Carry on further all the way up to the $100k+ motorhomes, for many this is the only way they would camp. The thing is, nobody is wrong if they are financially able to do what they want, and are getting enjoyment out of it.

Sure, there are many of these larger RVs that sit not used a lot, with folks thinking that this would be a great adventure only to realize the lifestyle does not suit them, BUT there are many small FB trailers in the very same situation. Heck, the Trillium 1300 I rebuilt had sat unused, wasting away, for 20 years.

Buy what works best for you, then go make memories, that's what it is all about.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:20 AM   #76
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glad

well if you want the 40f rig I am glad for you I had one and now run a 13f scmp I for one am glad I gave it up.

each of us have our own campin styles you like yours I like mine. when I comment it is my opinion just that!

I get feathers ruffled by some over my method of heat. My method is legal some take great offense to it and try to belittle me no problem. I will continue to do it and it is safe! matter of fact I have seen my methods of heat in the 500k rigs!

I like to boondock some people take great offense to that no problem but I find it strange I see the 500k rigs parked at the walmarts! what is that about? I bet I would be surprised at the Walmart campers here and their number!

If everyone was of the same opinions here there would be no need for a board! Some of us buy used some of us prefer new I see no problem with that but I want no payment, no big realestate taxes, insurance and maintance! In reading on different boards there are methods to not pay your fair share of sales taxes and such what is with that? Seems to me if you can afford a 500k rig pay up! do the right thing!

bob
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:29 AM   #77
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If you dont see the "point" of this discussion, then WHY contribute????????

Discussing WHY we prefer $15K or so over $150K or so makes perfect sense to me....AND to new comers that may be trying to decipher the "reasons" we choose to be frugal, tight, or just go with what we can afford!

We have ALOT more people stopping by "envying" us for the Scamp, than the 40'er pushers do for their investments!

Again, if someone on this forum doesnt like what's being 'discussed' on a topic nor "see the point of the discussion" such as this- MOVE ON!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
I don't see the point of this discussion.
If somebody has the money and the desire to buy a particular trailer or RV, what's it to us?
Are we trying to justify our purchase and pat ourselves on the back?
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:45 AM   #78
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Escape dropped the 13, then the 15, due in large to the fact they were a very small percentage of the demand, and to build a 17 does not cost a lot more. They also discovered there in fact was a segment of the FGRV market that wanted more room and amenities in their trailer. I fall into that category. I certainly could make do with a 13, and loved the layout of their 15A (no bath), but we want just a bit more, and are willing to pay the price.
I bought one of the elusive 15As used. There are times I think I'd like a bigger trailer but I love the simplicity of not having a bathroom (and in my case, no sink, either, though the standard layout had a sink.) I can see people (possibly someday including me) leapfrogging up to bigger- you buy a trailer, then you want a bigger tow, then you have a bigger tow so you can buy a still-bigger trailer, and so on. But then I think of all the complexities of going bigger and fancier and doubt I'll do it.

I looked at the then available new 13s a year or so ago. Looked hard at the HC1 but decided it gets too expensive too fast as you add features (like a floor!) and also couldn't figure out a layout I liked (side door gets in the way of most). There are some other new trailers out there and all have some attractive features, and I think the market really does need a basic starter trailer- right now it appears that's the Scamp 13. But even more basic wouldn't hurt- something that comes with floor, bed, and storage for hard-shell camping that you can stand up in, and stays at about 1000 lbs.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:33 AM   #79
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Trailer: Was A-Liner now 13f Scamp
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like my scamp

bobbi I like my 13f scamper, I like the compactness, I like no debt, I like low-cost insurance, I like no personal taxes to speak of, I like no deprectiaon, I like I can have a small tow, I like we hardly spend any money, I like I can just about stop anywhere at no expense no one bothers us, you know see nothing nothing to steal!

Now if you like the big things in life good for you I just point out what we like in our way of life. I see nothing wrong with that do I envy you? Maybe some but I look at my style and am happy.

good luck

bob
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:38 AM   #80
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Bob,

You already said that. In fact, you have said it many times.
And, we know, you are 75.
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