Stick Built Conversion to Molded

[Rzrbrn]

Well, shoot, I was hoping Daveo12345 would give it a try. Guess we will have to wait until someone designs a 3D printing machine large enough, and using strong building material, to build a small TT. If a Nautilus can build its shell bit by bit using chitin-protein crystals, why can't a 3D printer use something to build a trailer?

Nautilus Hard Parts: A Study of the Mineral and Organic Constitutents
H. A. Lowenstam, W. Traub and S. Weiner
Paleobiology
Vol. 10, No. 2 (Spring, 1984), pp. 268-279 (12 pages)
Published By: Cambridge University Press
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2400400

[Alex Adams]

Originally Posted by Rzrbrn

Well, shoot, I was hoping Daveo12345 would give it a try. Guess we will have to wait until someone designs a 3D printing machine large enough, and using strong building material, to build a small TT. If a Nautilus can build its shell bit by bit using chitin-protein crystals, why can't a 3D printer use something to build a trailer?

Already been done:

https://archive.curbed.com/2018/3/12...iler-saskatoon

[Rzrbrn]

I think I saw this a while back and forgot about it. Very interesting, thanks for posting. I wonder what plastic it is made of, and how durable it will be. What happens if an ember from a camp fire falls on it? Good show. The future is now.

3D printing a boat
Featured snippet from the web
The University of Maine broke three world records when it unveiled a boat produced by its polymer 3D printer. The 3D printer can produce objects as long as 100 feet, and printed a 25 foot, 5,000-pound patrol boat in just 72 hours.Oct 11, 2019

[Raspy]

David,

It's pretty hard to argue that building a sticky, and then building a fiberglass shell over it would be cheap, or practical.

Laying up fiberglass over a sticky would have many details and problems, and it is WAY different than coating the inside of a pool with it's continuous smooth surface, gradual curves and good substrate to adhere to. The rubber roof, the fittings all over the roof, the windows, the slide, the aluminum siding, the square corners along the roof edges, are all problems. Then it has to be painted, and re-painted occasionally. So much easier to buy another sticky when the first one is shot, and do some maintenance to prevent leaks as you go. The whole idea of ending up with a rubber roof, and aluminum siding, inside the fiberglass shell, seems ridiculous to me, but I would love to watch someone do it. Please do and include lots of pictures.

[Darwin Maring]

There are stickies with laminated siding. no seams.

3D Printing: Saw on TV where they have a machine to 3D print a cement house. Saw them do it.

[daveo12345]

My dad had a fiberglass boat, well a couple.


After dropping my kayak off the roof of my truck a few times and having nothing happen to it (roto molded PVC) i asked myself my no one had a boat made completely of roto molded pvc.


The I found Whaly boats and in fact i bough one. A roto molded boat.


That 3D camper in interesting . A roto molded pvc would be similar to a molded fiberglass, but probably without the strength


Why would you need to paint the fiberglass. Molded fiberglass and panel fiberglass would have the same issue, no?

[ShelbyM]

So which molded fiberglass have you looked at so far? From your other thread, seems you want 20' plus. Oliver, Bigfoot and Escape are all that come to mind. So few choices should make it easier to decide.

[daveo12345]

yes those are the 3. Trying to find a deal on an old one, may 2007-2015. Other suggested i look for one which needs repairs and i thought that might be a good idea. Escape is making a 23 on their website, not yet released.



Being somewhat handy i feel like a could takeon some repairs. These things are hard to find especially in the South East Atlanta area. Seems like NW is where all the used ones are.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by Alex Adams

Already been done:

https://archive.curbed.com/2018/3/12...iler-saskatoon

I got to see the 3D printed trailer at the Boler 50th Event in 2018. The body was just sitting on a flatbed trailer, so far from complete. But it was interesting. I'd like to see this produced for the masses

[thrifty bill]

Originally Posted by daveo12345

yes those are the 3. Trying to find a deal on an old one, may 2007-2015. Other suggested i look for one which needs repairs and i thought that might be a good idea. Escape is making a 23 on their website, not yet released.



Being somewhat handy i feel like a could takeon some repairs. These things are hard to find especially in the South East Atlanta area. Seems like NW is where all the used ones are.

Everyone thinks their area is devoid of used molded FG trailers. In reality, they are scarce all over. And you need to define your geographic preference in a wider radius, from SE side of Atlanta to 500 mile to 750 mile radius of Atlanta. I bought my last trailer, it was over 600 miles away (one way). The one prior to that was closer, about 500 miles away.

And when you are looking for 2007 to 2015, don't expect much of a discount. While a stick built trailer can lose half of its value in ONE year, this is not the case on FG trailers. These trailers are selling for close to new price right now. The real advantage is avoiding the long backlogs at the factories, and maybe you will get some of the options thrown in. But I would not plan on saving money on the newer ones (and in the world of FG trailers, 2007 to 2015 is one of the newer ones). The older trailers, say 1980s, will be cheaper, typically will need a lot of work. While the fiberglass shell can last forever, appliances, frames, axles, and so on, do not.

[wbullivant]

Originally Posted by daveo12345

ok - not really but let me explain

I have a keystone outback stick built. Original owner and I understand that all campers leak.

I also own a swimming pool. 25 years ago the interior suface was converted to fiberglass. 10 years ago I had the company apply a second layer of fiberglass.

So.....

Lets say you had a stick built rv. Could you:

1. remove all moldings from edges.
2. Wrap the entire rig in fiberglass, roof to bottom

you would eliminate almost all seams

Wonder why not even 1 stick rv manufacturer has done this. Of course it is not as good as a moulded fiberglass, but it seems close?

Dave

Dave

I've read through all the responses to your post and they certainly have brought up relevant issues, particularly added weight resulting from your modifications. I think your proposed modification has merit, but with qualifications. I've personally experimented with FG reinforced composites for more than five decades with some of my projects being more successful than others (learning experiences). I started with FG over plywood on a boat when I was sixteen and most recently used FG reinforced epoxy in building a camper in a Promaster van. My holding tanks were built into the structure and are lined with composite. Many detail areas consist of filled epoxy over poly foam.

My first thought are that there is merit to simply selling your unit and buying a full molded unit, particularly when you consider the difficulty of what you propose.

I just watched a video describing construction of Keystone Outbacks and I am impressed with many of the details. It looks like the structural elements are well detailed, and in some ways superior to the traditional egg. With FG units there are many accounts of roofs sagging due to inadequate support and often mention of the cabinets being an integral part of the structure. It appears that the Outback body panels are luan with a FG composite outer layer and the roof is EPDM. With sufficient effort you could possibly have the best of both worlds by retaining your structure, and sealing leak prone joints and the roof with FG reinforced epoxy (don't even consider polyester resin).

What I would do is remove the rubber roof and use FG cloth and epoxy resin (many coats) over the 3/8" OSB. Retain the existing composite outer panels and molded FG front cap and use approximately 6" strips of cloth followed by 4" strips embedded in resin on all joints. Cosmetics will be an issue but with repeated sanding, filling, and coating it will look pretty good. You will have to thicken the resin when using on vertical surfaces. Be sure to properly prep all surfaces first with light sanding and removal of all contaminates. You might as well figure on painting the entire unit with a marine epoxy afterwards to protect the resin from UV damage. Also secure an indoor facility to work in as doing a good job out in the weather will be next to impossible.

Your finished unit should not be significantly heavier as you have removed the rubber roof and corner trim which should pretty much offset the weight of FG cloth & resin. After all this work you should have a leakproof unit except that windows, vents, and other penetrations can always leak if not installed or maintained properly. Your joints could crack but I suspect they won't there is good structure underneath. Slides are always vulnerable to leaks. Your trailer will not look like a regular Outback and you will have to thoroughly educate any potential buyer. It is possible but I think you would be better off to sell and buy something like an Oliver when looking at the big picture and taking into consideration your time, cost of materials, and potential effect on resale value.

Bill in NC, self built camper in Promaster Van

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Alex Adams

Already been done:

https://archive.curbed.com/2018/3/12...iler-saskatoon

They had this (or a similar product) at the 50th boiler anniversary in Winnipeg.

Well, Donna did one better on me - she got a photo!

[Steven r]

As a person that had worked in the Fiberglass industry for 10 years moulded is the way to go. The gelcoat is sprayed on then the fiberglass is sprayed on our done with mat. The other method works but the finish is not the same. You need to sand till smooth and the try to spray on a protective coat of paint. Then sand and continue till it is perfect. The other option which I have done is to make a plug then a mould and then the product.

[Rzrbrn]

I think Bill is spot on. But after you put your time effort and money into this thing, what will you get if you ever want to sell it? Your renovation would pretty much make this a one off trailer. In other words, the market is very limited.

You should consider selling and buying what you want. I have a 2019 Big Foot 25B25RQ. I weigh... cough...234lbs. I have been on my roof many times. It does not flex even a little bit. In other words, buy a newer Big Foot, they are very well built. They sell shorter, single axle units also.

[Raspy]

There are always those who declare "it can't be done because you could never re-sell it".

It's a bad idea to hobble yourself during the creative process, while making something for yourself, to build it for re-sale. Why not build it for yourself to enjoy, instead of someone you will never meet? And even if you do decide to sell it, why decide in advance that nobody else would ever like it? If the thing you build serves you well and solves a problem, why would nobody else like it?

I guess I've never understood why people buy something for themselves, but get the one that they think will appeal to someone else. Are they are admitting the thing is not ideal for them and that they don't intend to keep it? Are they afraid to do something different?

You only limit yourself when you decide you can't do something creative, fun, or functional, unless you can resell it in a conventional market. That is a business approach, but does it make sense as a personal approach?

I say go for it. Ignore those who are worried about you reselling it. Make it for yourself. Everyone will learn something from the experience. Take lots of pictures.

[Cfbrand3rd]

Originally Posted by daveo12345

ok - not really but let me explain

I have a keystone outback stick built. Original owner and I understand that all campers leak.

I also own a swimming pool. 25 years ago the interior suface was converted to fiberglass. 10 years ago I had the company apply a second layer of fiberglass.

So.....

Lets say you had a stick built rv. Could you:

1. remove all moldings from edges.
2. Wrap the entire rig in fiberglass, roof to bottom

you would eliminate almost all seams

Wonder why not even 1 stick rv manufacturer has done this. Of course it is not as good as a moulded fiberglass, but it seems close?

Dave

I’d think, above & beyond all the other likely hurdles, the extra weight would be a non-starter here...🤷*♂️

[Darwin Maring]

Raspy: Remember when people would buy a new car then put on new seat covers, even the clear hot sweaty plastic ones so they could preserve the seats.

[100mpg]

Originally Posted by daveo12345

I wonder how boat manufacturers do it?

They use a mold.

[Burro Bill]

I left my FG trailer and went back to a stickie with no regrets. ANY trailer can and probably will leak as soon as hole number one is drilled or cut.
FG trailers are awesome but you cut holes for windows, for AC, vents, solar, etc. and once you do that at some point you will most likely get a leak.
I have owned MANY campers over my life and the only one I ever sold (with full disclosure) was my FG
trailer because of water damage
My current stickie had a small leak recently and I
immediately fixed it with seam tape (forgot the brand) not a drop of water since.
That being said FG campers definitely win for
cool 😎 factor!

[SnowballCamper]

You could build a kit (or just get the plans and try doubling the length & height)?

https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/...p-trailer.html

There is fiberglass over the entire camper, even though it looks like varnished wood. Notice how there are very few sharp angles in molded fiberglass anything. This is why I wouldn't cover a cube with fiberglass, the stress in the corners is too much for fiberglass to stay together.