Still seeking options advice

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

As I continue to educate myself on how I want to order my 13 ft. Scamp, questions keep evolving that I need to resolve in my mind. I have decided upon a Deluxe model for the larger bed and front dinette. I do want all the extra cabinets available, no furnace, no holding tanks, a rear hitch, and an awning.
I originally wanted an ice box rather than the refrigerator. I have now decided that I want an AC only refrigerator and no battery or inverter. I would like to have Scamp just leave the opening for me to do my own install. I feel that I have gotten along well for 30 years with my pop-up and no battery/inverter. We used DC lanterns mostly and AC electric lights on those few times we plugged in.
I am soliciting opinions on the rational of my thoughts. I do not want a 3 way frige as I think them to be problematic and I do not want the inverter or battery to eliminate weight.
Does anyone have experience with this course of action that can help me prepare a clear purchase plan? i.e. Will a dorm size frige fit in the available space? Will I create another problem I am not planning on?

[cpaharley2008]

I think you are eliminating a lot of things that would help re-sell the Scamp if you ever become displeased with it. I know you can order cabinets all around front to rear in the deluxe and I'd get the furnace and 3 way refer. You need a battery for your brakes to work, no need for an inverter but you need a converter. Holding tanks do not add much weight and if you want to save weight, drop the factory awning and get a bag type awning.

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Bill in Pittsburgh

I originally wanted an ice box rather than the refrigerator. I have now decided that I want an AC only refrigerator and no battery or inverter. I would like to have Scamp just leave the opening for me to do my own install.

Will a dorm size fridge fit in the available space?

I have observed that replacing an Ice Box with an after-market compressor Dorm Fridge is one of the most common "upgrades" done. Removing an Ice Box is easy, and most Dorm Fridge replacements fit OK. Since you are getting the Deluxe interior, I'm sure that they would accommodate whatever you decide.

DC interior lighting is very common, so you'd have to give that up to go without a battery... What kind of batteries are in your DC Lanterns?

You are ordering this new? Get exactly what you want! Just be prepared for slow resale or greater depreciation, that's all. I hope you enjoy it for a long time.

If you are getting an axle with brakes, you don't necessarily need a group 24/27 big Battery. You'll just need a small 20 amp-hour battery just for the emergency break-away switch. Many cargo trailers are rigged that way.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Bill in Pittsburgh

As I continue to educate myself on how I want to order my 13 ft. Scamp, questions keep evolving that I need to resolve in my mind. I have decided upon a Deluxe model for the larger bed and front dinette. I do want all the extra cabinets available, no furnace, no holding tanks, a rear hitch, and an awning.
I originally wanted an ice box rather than the refrigerator. I have now decided that I want an AC only refrigerator and no battery or inverter. I would like to have Scamp just leave the opening for me to do my own install. I feel that I have gotten along well for 30 years with my pop-up and no battery/inverter. We used DC lanterns mostly and AC electric lights on those few times we plugged in.
I am soliciting opinions on the rational of my thoughts. I do not want a 3 way frige as I think them to be problematic and I do not want the inverter or battery to eliminate weight.
Does anyone have experience with this course of action that can help me prepare a clear purchase plan? i.e. Will a dorm size frige fit in the available space? Will I create another problem I am not planning on?

Thank you very much for the awning advice as weight is a driving factor. Resale is not an issue that I am considering a possibility. If I am not happy with it, I would probably pass it to one of our boys.

[Donna D.]

A waste water tank doesn't weigh very much and to me worth having. Water has to go somewhere. Lots of places require dispersement or dumping at designated dumps. Constantly empyting a bucket is a PITA.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

Thank You for the information on the frige. I do not plan on getting brakes. My goal is to keep this trailer dry weight under 1200#.

If I should change my mind about brakes, your battery info will be helpful.

I will use a small electric heater rather than a furnace.

Yes, I do plan on purchasing new. I think that is the only way I will be able to get a trailer equiped just as I want it.

[Jim Hovind]

The weight of acceptable waste water containers would probably be as much or greater than an factory tank and a way bigger hassle.

[honda03842]

I do not plan on getting brakes. My goal is to keep this trailer dry weight under 1200#.

Bill,
I'm not sure why weight is so important. Is it a tow vehicle issue?

To me brakes would be first on my list of must haves. It is the one part of a trailer that can rescue a failing situation. As well it takes braking load off your tow vehicle, something you'll appreciate going down a long grade.

Scamp 13's are light enough to be towed by almost any vehicle, there are plenty of examples of that on this site. At one time I thought weight was the critical trailer factor in towing. I have learned that frontal area and shape are more important, at least in terms of miles per gallon. (Miles per gallon, for any one tow vehicle and any one driver, are a measure of the trailer's load on the tow vehicle.)

As to specific options, I am of the opinion that each of us has a traveling/camping style. As a result trailers can be configured to meet that style. In reality it is something that can be changed any time if you're handy and have time on your hands. We like the two way fridge because it supports off grid camping more readily than an all electric soultion. We have had an all electric fridge and like it's storage capacity.

In general I would buy the options that you're unsure about, like a gray tank.

As to buying new to get low weight, it's awfully easy to remove the weight items you think you don't want like a battery, water heater, air conditioner, awning. In general if I were you I'd buy a used unit and remove what I didn't want.

Good luck in your search,

[cpaharley2008]

If you plan on getting the trailer lightweight and under 1200# why are you getting the deluxe model which adds a couple of ## for the wood? and with no tanks, why both with a bath and hot water system. Just get the beds and space for coolers?

[reeves99]

Originally Posted by Bill in Pittsburgh

If I am not happy with it, I would probably pass it to one of our boys.

Phil

[floyd]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

If you plan on getting the trailer lightweight and under 1200# why are you getting the deluxe model which adds a couple of ## for the wood? and with no tanks, why both with a bath and hot water system. Just get the beds and space for coolers?

Fiberglass is actually heavier than equivalent sized wood.
look at one of the lightest trailers available.... the Taurus Cadet.
It has an all wood interior and no fiberglass replacement could be made lighter.
look again at a Compact Jr.... same .
Fiberglass trailers are lighter because of the shell design made possible by molded fiberglass technology and it's inherent strength. The weight difference of equivalent interiors is negligible.
Still... Persistent myths die hard.

The Scamp Deluxe is seldom sold to those with a minimalist mentality, and so normally, the resultant additional weight (if any) can largely be attributed to more cabinets and more appliances and more features, not to interior construction materials. Because of this, the additional investment in a deluxe interior with a minimalist trailer may be lost in resale.
Another point...some built-in features may weigh less than their equivalent portables....Interior 12V lighting would certainly be one example.
Building a new Scamp 13 under 1200# (if even possible)would be a very ambitious undertaking at best. Weight savings for towing would be better sought by reducing the stuff broght along.

Glass windows may need to be minimalized or eliminated, sliders are lighter than jaulosies, but still heavier than fixed plexiglass(which may add no weight at all.
My advice would be to build the trailer that you really want, maybe an icebox instead of a fridge, but features used are worth the weight.
By adjusting the take-alongs...Scamp 13s without showers,toilets,and hotwater, can all weigh close to the same leaving the driveway.
Scamp13s with those features generally constitute the other weight category.

[Mr. W.]

You will find that everybody wants you to configure the camper the way they would want it. I think it is true that a configuration such as you propose will limit your resale options... let me rephrase that -- you may not resell it for top dollar, but history tells us that these things resell well in any configuration and in any condition. But, if resale isn't a concern to you, go for what you want.

My suggestions are to get the 12v lighting, but just power it off of a small jump-starter or a motorcycle battery instead of a big battery. Swap out the incandescent bulbs with LEDs for long battery life. Get the dorm fridge if you like that -- just remember that it won't be running while you are en-route. Scamp cabinets are insanely lightweight, so get as many as you want, but don't forget that more cabinets hold more stuff, which weighs more. The Deluxe bed is WAY better than the standard bed, and the front dinette is, in my mind, a great floorplan for a 13. If you plan to scrap the fresh and grey tanks, you might as well also eliminate the sink.

You mentioned that you used AC lighting "on those few times we plugged in". Unless you plan to change your habits, this won't work well with a dorm fridge. If your habits along this line are going to change, what other habits might change as well?

[Perry J]

What are you going to tow with?
I had a self contained 16' Scamp and my MPG was the same as when I was towing a 13' Scamp.
My TV is an 07 Toyota Tacoma with the 4 cyl. engine and auto. transmission.
I used to be so weight conscious I never traveled with a full water tank.
I tried a full tank of water on one trip and found it made no difference.
John

[honda03842]

I had a self contained 16' Scamp and my MPG was the same as when I was towing a 13' Scamp.

John,

Probably very true except for maybe heavy mountain driving. When we had a motorhome the mpg did not change when we towed our 4000 pound Honda.

I think it's very much a frontal area issue and the 13 and 16 are very similar. We used to tow a stick trailer that was lighter than our scamp and we had 15% less mpg.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

A waste water tank doesn't weigh very much and to me worth having. Water has to go somewhere. Lots of places require dispersement or dumping at designated dumps. Constantly empyting a bucket is a PITA.

Thank you for the insight. I just changed my mind again. Now I will put a waste tank on my "To Get" list

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by honda03842

I do not plan on getting brakes. My goal is to keep this trailer dry weight under 1200#.

Bill,
I'm not sure why weight is so important. Is it a tow vehicle issue?

To me brakes would be first on my list of must haves. It is the one part of a trailer that can rescue a failing situation. As well it takes braking load off your tow vehicle, something you'll appreciate going down a long grade.

Scamp 13's are light enough to be towed by almost any vehicle, there are plenty of examples of that on this site. At one time I thought weight was the critical trailer factor in towing. I have learned that frontal area and shape are more important, at least in terms of miles per gallon. (Miles per gallon, for any one tow vehicle and any one driver, are a measure of the trailer's load on the tow vehicle.)

As to specific options, I am of the opinion that each of us has a traveling/camping style. As a result trailers can be configured to meet that style. In reality it is something that can be changed any time if you're handy and have time on your hands. We like the two way fridge because it supports off grid camping more readily than an all electric soultion. We have had an all electric fridge and like it's storage capacity.

In general I would buy the options that you're unsure about, like a gray tank.

As to buying new to get low weight, it's awfully easy to remove the weight items you think you don't want like a battery, water heater, air conditioner, awning. In general if I were you I'd buy a used unit and remove what I didn't want.

Good luck in your search,

One concern I have with weight is not the vehicles ability to tow (think about cars towing campers in the 1930s tow weight ratios) but instead the manufacturers not tow rating vehicles realistically. For example, I could be wrong, but I think a CRV has a tow rating of 1500 lbs. Much less than it's ability to tow. But, if you are towing 2000lbs. with a CRV and have an accident, you are towing overweight and would be vulnerable to blame regardless of who was at fault. Just thinking like a lawyer.

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

A waste water tank doesn't weigh very much and to me worth having. Water has to go somewhere. Lots of places require dispersement or dumping at designated dumps. Constantly empyting a bucket is a PITA.

Not to mention the bugs it can attract and the fact some campgrounds will not let you have an exposed outside holding system.

[Bill in Pittsburgh]

Thank you to everyone that responded. Lot's of good information I could not have gotten without your help!

[Carol H]

Originally Posted by Bill in Pittsburgh

One concern I have with weight is not the vehicles ability to tow (think about cars towing campers in the 1930s tow weight ratios) but instead the manufacturers not tow rating vehicles realistically. For example, I could be wrong, but I think a CRV has a tow rating of 1500 lbs. Much less than it's ability to tow. But, if you are towing 2000lbs. with a CRV and have an accident, you are towing overweight and would be vulnerable to blame regardless of who was at fault. Just thinking like a lawyer.

Personally think that if staying within the legal tow rate is of concern you may really want to reconsider your idea of going with the Scamp delux as you may be hard pressed to get it or keep it under 1500lbs. Also wonder what the tongue rating on your CRV is as the trailer you are considering will be a bit heavy in that regard as well if you go with all the storage they offer.

Take a look at the Real World Trailer weight thread under general chat - 3 - 13' Standard Scamps listed and they range is between 1620lbs to 1950lbs and tongue weights are 200lbs to 240lbs. The delux will right out of the box weigh more than a standard due to the wood used.

[Perry J]

Norm,
Your right about frontal area.
I move a 15' sticky about 200 miles last month for a friend.
It was taller than an egg and had a square, flat front.
My mpg was 16.5 towing the trailer.
John