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Old 07-28-2015, 03:01 PM   #81
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Plus the fact that just using a WDH will add another 50-60 lbs to the tongue weight.... Catch-22 anyone?



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Old 07-28-2015, 03:15 PM   #82
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What some folks don't seem to understand is, the WDH reduces tongue weight once it is attached to the vehicle.

IE... Our trailer's tongue weight is about 650lbs.

When it is a connected to the car, by the action of the WDH, it is only placing about 300+lbs on the rear of the vehicle. Simply put it redistributes a portion of the tongue weight to the front wheels of the TV and back to the trailer axles.

The catch is to be sure the vehicles receiver is capable of handling the stresses of the action of the WDH. Note even many full size pickups come with weak factory receivers that will flex when a WDH is used.
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Old 07-28-2015, 04:32 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by ORshepherd View Post
OK. My feeling is, if the Service Manager says that...then I can go a LITTLE over TW nd be OK. I'm not talking about hitching The V up to an Airstream (although I wouldn't complain.)
The problem now is that I just read that you can't USE a WDH with a Volvo hitch...because it is a CLass II setup and a WDH needs III. (PLease don;t laugh at me if I got those CLass #s wrong!)
GOOD Lord...why is thos so freaking complicated!!! It's nuts!
THAT'S right. It has to do with the Class II setup. Couldn't remember the reason why, but knew I'd read it. Where did you see this info? (I did a lot of digging in the Volvo forums...)

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Old 07-28-2015, 04:52 PM   #84
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There you go. I remember reading that too. What does your new BF weigh? Bath?
1300 lbs empty (we weighed it on the way home). I'm not sure yet about a tongue weight.

There is no bath, but there is a lovely new porta potty inside a cabinet by the door. Not sure how I feel about having one of these inside... but I guess it's there if we need it!
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:02 PM   #85
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What some folks don't seem to understand is, the WDH reduces tongue weight once it is attached to the vehicle.

IE... Our trailer's tongue weight is about 650lbs.

When it is a connected to the car, by the action of the WDH, it is only placing about 300+lbs on the rear of the vehicle. Simply put it redistributes the tongue weight to the front wheels of the TV and back to the trailer axles.
Perhaps my math is poor but I can not see how transferring 300 or so lbs of 650lbs total off the rear of a tug to the front of the tug "reduces the tongue weight once it is attached". My math suggest the trailers tongue weight is still 650 lbs & the tug is still having to take all 650lbs of it on.
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:12 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA View Post
THAT'S right. It has to do with the Class II setup. Couldn't remember the reason why, but knew I'd read it. Where did you see this info? (I did a lot of digging in the Volvo forums...)

LP
I found this last night when I googled Volvo and WDH. I don;t think there was a follow up wherein he discovered a CLass II won;t take a WDH...:

All of you replies and concerns are greatly appreciated and spurred me to ask the Volvo dealer; My reply is not meant to rebut or be sarcastic, so here is what I found out:
I hope this helps someone else who has the same questions.

Yes, it is a class 2 2" receiver hitch, so max weight is 3500 lbs

the 3300lb Gross/185lb weight max is based on a fully laden wagon. the GCVWR allows for an additional 1100 lbs of passenger and cargo and that only allows for another 185lbs on the rear axle on a full tank. by moving cargo to the trailer, and using a WDH, will allow me to go to the 3300/330 weight that you would expect safely.

Max towing speeds are based on general trailer manufacturer recommendations for single axle trailers, and state laws.---some states allow for only a 45mph max on single axle trailers regardless of brakes, towing vehilce or weight. A good guide line is the markings on a u-haul. If you think about it, when you have 12" tires being towed at 65mph, those tire are spinning twice as fast as the ones on your car. The limitation is a heat issue.

The information with long distances and reduced tow capacity was based on an 8 hour tow. I have a 4 year old and I can't do more than 4 hours at at time. Extended lunch stops will help abate the wear and tear issue and help the car cool down. Also, using reduced gears when climbing and descending hill I was told is key to keeping the Transmission cool.

The xc70 will also release the AWD if temps get too hot to help reduce heat buildup.
Servicing the tranny (at $400 a crack) yearly is a huge help even though the mfg says do it every 55k for towing and 85k for non towing.

Again, I am grateful for all the input, it made me think hard and go to the source for all my information. I hope this helps someone out there who is in my position.

Steve App
2011 Jayco 1206
2006 Volvo XC70
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:30 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Ellpea in CA View Post
. It has to do with the Class II setup. Couldn't remember the reason why, but knew I'd read it. Where did you see this info? (I did a lot of digging in the Volvo forums...)

LP
Go to the Reese Site for additional info on the various classes of hitches.


There are no Class II hitches designed for use with a WD system simple because as has been pointed out one does not normally need to use one when tow trailers that weigh less than 3500 lbs the hitch is rated to pull. Some special order Class III hitches do have the ability to be used with a WD system but its not stock on a Class III either due to the fact that a lot of folks pulling trailers of the weight that hitch is rated for also do not need a WDH.

Class V hitches do come stock with the ability to use with a WDH but then again they are also rated to pull a trailer up to 17,000lbs - if your pulling a trailer of that weight its a good bet you will not be doing it with a Volvo regardless of which model you own
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Old 07-28-2015, 05:47 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Carol H View Post
Perhaps my math is poor but I can not see how transferring 300 or so lbs of 650lbs total off the rear of a tug to the front of the tug "reduces the tongue weight once it is attached". My math suggest the trailers tongue weight is still 650 lbs & the tug is still having to take all 650lbs of it on.
My explanation with regards to the weight distributing properties of our rig is better than math. It comes a from a CAT weigh scale ticket. Like I wrote above, many folks don't understand how a WDH works.
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:27 PM   #89
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My explanation with regards to the weight distributing properties of our rig is better than math. It comes a from a CAT weigh scale ticket. Like I wrote above, many folks don't understand how a WDH works.
LOL you missed the point !

A WDH does not as you say " reduces tongue weight once it is attached to the vehicle".

Sorry but it is simple physically impossible, unless of course the trailer was attached to the tug in a space shuttle and orbiting the moon!

I stand by my original comment. A trailer with a 650lb tongue weight is still going to have a 650lbs tongue weight regardless of the fact the WDH distributes that weight over the length of the tow vehicle.
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Old 07-28-2015, 06:43 PM   #90
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Gotta say, without a potty tent you would feel even funnier using it outside. But there are several easy to use Show/Potty tents available. We had one for our Scamp & Lil Bigfoot to use with the outside shower panels.



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Old 07-28-2015, 07:31 PM   #91
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LOL you missed the point !
Auh, semantics. I get it!
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:24 PM   #92
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I found this last night when I googled Volvo and WDH. I don;t think there was a follow up wherein he discovered a CLass II won;t take a WDH...:

All of you replies and concerns are greatly appreciated and spurred me to ask the Volvo dealer; My reply is not meant to rebut or be sarcastic, so here is what I found out:
I hope this helps someone else who has the same questions.

Yes, it is a class 2 2" receiver hitch, so max weight is 3500 lbs

the 3300lb Gross/185lb weight max is based on a fully laden wagon. the GCVWR allows for an additional 1100 lbs of passenger and cargo and that only allows for another 185lbs on the rear axle on a full tank. by moving cargo to the trailer, and using a WDH, will allow me to go to the 3300/330 weight that you would expect safely.

Max towing speeds are based on general trailer manufacturer recommendations for single axle trailers, and state laws.---some states allow for only a 45mph max on single axle trailers regardless of brakes, towing vehilce or weight. A good guide line is the markings on a u-haul. If you think about it, when you have 12" tires being towed at 65mph, those tire are spinning twice as fast as the ones on your car. The limitation is a heat issue.

The information with long distances and reduced tow capacity was based on an 8 hour tow. I have a 4 year old and I can't do more than 4 hours at at time. Extended lunch stops will help abate the wear and tear issue and help the car cool down. Also, using reduced gears when climbing and descending hill I was told is key to keeping the Transmission cool.

The xc70 will also release the AWD if temps get too hot to help reduce heat buildup.
Servicing the tranny (at $400 a crack) yearly is a huge help even though the mfg says do it every 55k for towing and 85k for non towing.

Again, I am grateful for all the input, it made me think hard and go to the source for all my information. I hope this helps someone out there who is in my position.

Steve App
2011 Jayco 1206
2006 Volvo XC70
One thing that puzzles me about this info: it mentions a Class II, 2" receiver. That would be an odd one. Most class II receivers are something like 1.25" square, and class III receivers are the larger 2" square size. You might take a measuring tape and check your receiver. If it has a 2" x 2" opening, it is large enough to accept a WDH, and perhaps they are calling it 'class II' simply because it is not rated for as much towing capacity as a typical class III would be.

Of course, the info you found from Mr. App may have included a misstatement on this point. But it's worth checking.
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Old 07-28-2015, 10:02 PM   #93
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Just a thought, and often repeated, but here goes: I think it's better to get a trailer that suits you, and meets your camping needs, rather than try to find one that works with your current tow. Tows change alot. For most people, trailers usually don't.
'cause I ended up getting the trailer I wanted then getting the TV for it. Just sayin'.
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Old 07-29-2015, 12:53 AM   #94
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You might take a measuring tape and check your receiver. If it has a 2" x 2" opening, it is large enough to accept a WDH, and perhaps they are calling it 'class II' simply because it is not rated for as much towing capacity as a typical class III would be.

.
It is very possible the party who wrote that message was incorrect regarding the receiver size.
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:02 AM   #95
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My math suggest the trailers tongue weight is still 650 lbs & the tug is still having to take all 650lbs of it on.
Sorry, incorrect again. The WDH uses the front axles of the TV and the trailer axle as a base to pivot the hitch point upward thus transferring a percentage of the 650lbs to the trailer axles. The result is less than 650lbs on the TV.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:47 AM   #96
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Sorry, incorrect again. The WDH uses the front axles of the TV and the trailer axle as a base to pivot the hitch point upward thus transferring a percentage of the 650lbs to the trailer axles. The result is less than 650lbs on the TV.
This is a good beginner's explanation of the basic concept of WDH, which is really far more complicated than it first appears. Basically, the WDH stiffens the connection point between the tug and trailer, creating a bridge that spans from the front axle of the tug to the axle of the trailer. The rear axle of the tug will still carry weight, but you can adjust how much.

The thing to realize here is that it is also possible with a WDH to transfer tug weight onto the trailer, in certain conditions, thereby overloading the trailer. Properly setting up a WDH requires knowledge and understanding of the process. I showed my boss, one time, that I could actually adjust his WDH to the point that there was so little weight on the rear axle that he couldn't get traction to get moving with his rear-wheel-drive van.

Now, that bridging dynamic puts a tremendous stress on the hitch mount points, and not all vehicles are strong enough to bear that stress. A well-designed hitch for WDH doesn't just mount to the frame at the back of the tug -- it has structural members that mount considerably further forward. While it is possible to put a WDH assembly into any 2" hitch receiver, that would be a bad idea.
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:01 AM   #97
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This pic illustrates the fact that some weight must go back to the trailer axles.
Attached Thumbnails
olds trailer 015.JPG  
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:07 AM   #98
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This pic illustrates the fact that some weight must go back to the trailer axles.
A picture is worth a thousand words!!
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:38 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by ORshepherd View Post
I found this last night when I googled Volvo and WDH. I don;t think there was a follow up wherein he discovered a CLass II won;t take a WDH...:

All of you replies and concerns are greatly appreciated and spurred me to ask the Volvo dealer; My reply is not meant to rebut or be sarcastic, so here is what I found out:
I hope this helps someone else who has the same questions.

Yes, it is a class 2 2" receiver hitch, so max weight is 3500 lbs

the 3300lb Gross/185lb weight max is based on a fully laden wagon. the GCVWR allows for an additional 1100 lbs of passenger and cargo and that only allows for another 185lbs on the rear axle on a full tank. by moving cargo to the trailer, and using a WDH, will allow me to go to the 3300/330 weight that you would expect safely.

Max towing speeds are based on general trailer manufacturer recommendations for single axle trailers, and state laws.---some states allow for only a 45mph max on single axle trailers regardless of brakes, towing vehilce or weight. A good guide line is the markings on a u-haul. If you think about it, when you have 12" tires being towed at 65mph, those tire are spinning twice as fast as the ones on your car. The limitation is a heat issue.

The information with long distances and reduced tow capacity was based on an 8 hour tow. I have a 4 year old and I can't do more than 4 hours at at time. Extended lunch stops will help abate the wear and tear issue and help the car cool down. Also, using reduced gears when climbing and descending hill I was told is key to keeping the Transmission cool.

The xc70 will also release the AWD if temps get too hot to help reduce heat buildup.
Servicing the tranny (at $400 a crack) yearly is a huge help even though the mfg says do it every 55k for towing and 85k for non towing.

Again, I am grateful for all the input, it made me think hard and go to the source for all my information. I hope this helps someone out there who is in my position.

Steve App
2011 Jayco 1206
2006 Volvo XC70
Me thinks that Mr. App is writing from a position of relative little real experience.

1. There are no states that have a 45 MPH speed limit on single axle trailers. Quoting what U-Haul writes on a trailer fender is hardly a reputable source. And, I've never seen a U-Haul trailer with 12" wheels, the example he uses.

2. "Extended lunch stops will help abate the wear and tear issue and help the car cool down." Applied on cars up until about 1940.

3. His math provides him with the excuse he needs to exceed the manufacturers towing limit. If Volvo gives the Okey-Dokey, it's good to go.



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Old 07-29-2015, 09:44 AM   #100
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Me thinks that Mr. App is writing from a position of relative little real experience.

1. There are no states that have a 45 MPH speed limit on single axle trailers.

.
I suspect your correct. They may have done a quick glance through the abbreviated version of towing laws and saw it mentioned that some states do have towing laws that restrict the towing speed to 45mph but failed to read that it applies to items such as towing a motorhome, or a mobile/manufactured homes etc, not Travel trailers.

In regards to the 2" receiver - its hard to say if that was an ooops as well are not.

From Volvo's Parts Site here is the link to the Hitch they sell for the XC70 which is the OP's vehicle.

Its states it comes with a 2" ball mount & a 2" ball, which may have confused the party. Its stated to be a Class II US. No mention of the receiver size being 2" It is very possible to purchase a ball mount for a 2" ball for the smaller Class II receiver opening.

On the hitch they sell for their vehicle with higher tow rating than the OP's the Volvo hitch is stated to be a Class III and does say it has a 2" receiver.
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