Tesla towing

[Bonnie RB]

Some points I wish to make:

Most of the Electric Vehicle Service Equipment (a.k.a.: EVSE) have strict grounding requirements. A portable alternating current generator is not likely to be able to satisfy this safety requirement. Without this proper wiring connection, the EVSE (see ThomasC's picture in post #9) will not permit the the AC to DC charger built into the car to connect through the EVSE to a power supply.

I use biodiesel in my cars from Sept. 2001 until I sold my last one in 2018. I ran B99 and B100 9 months a year and diluted (polluted) with pump petrodiesel to about 25% bio in the coldest winter months. The bio diesel was from post-consumer waste cooking oil. I still have some biodiesel left from 2017 that I run in my diesel lawn tractor. My biodiesel was purchased retail, all applicable state and federal road taxes were paid at the pump.
In 2010 I had the opportunity to travel from Portland ME to Portland OR in a 1995 VW Cabrio diesel. I made the trip on public access, retail pump, biodiesel purchased on the way, no jerry cans in the car. I kept track of the trip and notes on the feedstock that the bio was made from.
In 2014 Tesla made a cross country trip to celebrate the completion of a string of Supercharger locations that could support such an endeavor. Tesla also kept track and proudly published their report.
I made a comparison.
Tesla LA to NYC, 3,464.5 mi. on 1,197.8 kWh or the energy equivalent of about 35 gallons of gasoline. Using the published locations of the 25 re-charge stops they used and the USEPA eGRID emissions for electric generation in each region, the CO2 equivalent emissions were 217.6 grams per mile. That rate of is the same as a gasoline vehicle getting 48 mpg.
My 2010 trip was 3,934.2 miles long and used 6 fuel stops for 80.166 gallons of B99 and B100 biodiesel. Based on the feed stock and the various 'well-to-wheels' energy intensity of the conversion to biodiesel, my CO2 equivalent emission was 152.5 grams per mile. That is a rate equivalent to a gasoline power vehicle getting 75 mpg.

My current (pun) Volt is only slightly less 'brown' than the long line of VW diesels I previously operated on biodiesel, and that's with my municipal power company supplying me power that is 75% from non-fossil energy sources. In the 2 1/2 years I've had it I've driven 20,384.7 miles on grid electric and 3409.9 miles on the gasoline on-board generator when the battery ran too low. The emissions work out to 113.2 miles per gallon in this one.

"Clean" doesn't mean 'green'. Electricity from coal produces an equivalent climate change impact of 1000 grams of CO2 for every kWh of energy. Liquid hydrogen? about 519 grams for the same energy output. Ethanol from corn? 357, pump gasoline? 345 grams. Liquid natural gas, 336. Photo voltaic electric, 46 grams. Biodiesel from waste, 36 grams. Nuclear, 16, and Wind, 12 grams.
I'm not able to locate my data for hydroelectric equivalent greenhouse gas emissions, but it's not zero, mostly to the CO2 of all that concrete and the loss of carbon sink from flooding. As I recall the per kWh of hydro was somewhere around PV in the 40 to 50 g/kWh range when amortized over the life of the system.

I have no justification in appropriating any "greener than thou" attitude, but "greenwashing" rankles me more than a little.
Can you tell?


off my soapbox,
Jon MB, (the thin skinned other half to Bonnie RB

[Bonnie RB]

One concern I have with considering towing with my Volt, or would need to consider with any other EV, is the issue of regenerative braking, the use of the electric motor to slow the car.
Use of the brake pedal when the "transmission" selector is in D and the regereration is less does illuminate the brake lights, but the motor slowing force is only on the two drive wheels.
The regeneration / slowing effect of just releasing the go pedal when in L mode on the "transmission" selector is a more aggressive slowing, but still only on the two drive wheels and this braking without use of the brake pedal does not illuminate the brake lights, so there'd be no electric trailer brake activation.
Only when going so slowly that the motor's braking effect is so diminished, say 5 mph or less, does the hydraulic four wheel friction brake system take over for the final stopping action.
The EVs are heavy relative to other similarly sized internal combustion engined vehicles. Adding a trailer of any weight / momentum to that further taxes the amount of coefficient of friction available on just two drive wheels to safely slow, or prevent hurtling down a hill, an EV and trailer combination.

Hydraulic 'surge' brakes on the trailer would permit 4 of the 6 wheels to provide braking, but surge brakes are not as common as previous.

So, I have the tow receiver mounted on the Volt, but that's for only the bike rack, at least until I come to terms with stopping a car AND a trailer by what is effectively shifting into reverse.
Jon MB

[charlsara]

I am all for electric vehicles. Hopefully they will get efficient enough to get in the common man territory soon. The idea that petroleum is going away is a pipe dream. It is used for much more than fuel including plastics, lubricants, food prep and much more.

[Alex Adams]

Originally Posted by charlsara

I am all for electric vehicles. Hopefully they will get efficient enough to get in the common man territory soon. The idea that petroleum is going away is a pipe dream. It is used for much more than fuel including plastics, lubricants, food prep and much more.

Not a pipe dream. As more and more evidence is published showing the dire health effects of microscopic bits of plastic in the environment to plants, animals and ultimately humans and more research into alternatives to petroleum products is funded the "pipe dream" will become reality.

I remember when it was a "pipe dream" that renewables would be cheaper than some fossil fuels like coal and oil, but here we are today where that has become reality.

[Randy P.]

Originally Posted by Alex Adams

Not a pipe dream. As more and more evidence is published showing the dire health effects of microscopic bits of plastic in the environment to plants, animals and ultimately humans and more research into alternatives to petroleum products is funded the "pipe dream" will become reality.

And how many decades now have they been predicting the demise of fossil fuels? The world is awash in petroleum and our energy demands are ever increasing. The idea that we will abandon a cheap, plentiful and reliable energy source is unrealistic.

I'm all for finding alternatives, but I'm afraid that the "reality" is far less imminent then the desire by some to do so.

[Alex Adams]

Originally Posted by Randy P.

And how many decades now have they been predicting the demise of fossil fuels? The world is awash in petroleum and our energy demands are ever increasing. The idea that we will abandon a cheap, plentiful and reliable energy source is unrealistic.

I'm all for finding alternatives, but I'm afraid that the "reality" is far less imminent then the desire by some to do so.

We will abandon it because the environmental costs are too high. When factored in, the changes to the environment by way of increased strength and frequency of Hurricanes, Tornadoes and flooding alone will make it uneconomical to continue. Not to mention the decreased inhabitability of large portions of this country as well as around the world. We already are past the point where a 2 degree Centigrade (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) rise in average temperatures is a given unless we can start removing greenhouse gases from the air. Phoenix Arizona had a record 107.9 degree average summer temperature this year. Now add 3.6 degrees to that and you get 111.5. How long would that be sustainable?

[Gompka]

You think a model 3 towing a boler is impressive ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICG1LKPyKnY

[CalCop]

This is all well and good until the batteries wear out.
Where does the old ones go. How much are the new going to cost?

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by CalCop

This is all well and good until the batteries wear out.
Where does the old ones go. How much are the new going to cost?

They pretty much have a million mile battery now. One of their engineers has started a recycling operation.

[TTaM]

I've seen a fair amount of Teslas towing here in WA.

[EribaFan]

Electric cars and camping trailers...we can all agree, are still a work in progress, but we are getting there, one at a time.

[AlanKilian]

Originally Posted by Bonnie RB

One concern ... this braking without use of the brake pedal does not illuminate the brake lights, so there'd be no electric trailer brake activation.

I always thought there was a brake controller involved and not that the brake-light signal directly control the trailer brakes.


I'm just getting my new axle with brakes shipped to me so I'm actively studying brake controllers.


I'd appreciate some advise on this.

[floyd]

As I read this thread, I found so many things to which I had a response...



Coming from the culture of the south, I can condense it all into one single modifier... "Confounded"
Bless your hearts!

[EribaFan]

AlanKillian, in my case (surge brakes on the trailer, no brake controller) the brake lights are activated whenever there is deceleration, it’s not tied to whether I’m using the brake pedal or just regenerative braking. I’d assume this works the same way if a brake controller for electric brakes is in play. The car also “knows” that a trailer is attached when you plug in your 7-way electrical connector. It then engages “Trailer Mode”, which, for example will not allow auto-steering, and adjusts the estimates for range when route planning with Superchargers.

[Borden]

Think a Tesla to tow with would have the fun factor.
Can not afford a long range Tesla at this time but still it would be fun. Charging it would pose some challenges. Should still save in travel costs if car cost difference not factored in.

Our car uses 6.7-7.4 L/100 km Toyota estimate or about 6.1 to 8.2 L/100 average real world driving; but goes down to 11.76 L/100 towing average. Going over 85 or strong head wind ouch? The 11.76 L/100 is close to real time average on our trips

Problem is have never seen a charging station up north lol

[EribaFan]

Originally Posted by Borden

Think a Tesla to tow with would have the fun factor.
Can not afford a long range Tesla at this time but still it would be fun. Charging it would pose some challenges. Should still save in travel costs if car cost difference not factored in.

Our car uses 6.7-7.4 L/100 km Toyota estimate or about 6.1 to 8.2 L/100 average real world driving; but goes down to 11.76 L/100 towing average. Going over 85 or strong head wind ouch? The 11.76 L/100 is close to real time average on our trips

Problem is have never seen a charging station up north lol

We used about 500...600 Wh/mile (300...400 Wh/km) on a recent trip with our trailer. It’s interesting to translate that using EPA’s MPGe number that says 1 MPGe = 1 mi/33.7kWh. The 500 Wh/mi would mean 67 MPG fuel efficiency (somewhere around 4L/100km). We calculate, at this point, that we need to recharge at around 150 miles when towing, so that range anxiety doesn’t set in. The Supercharger network makes that a possibility, and when on vacation, having your lunch socially distanced in the trailer while getting ready for the next leg is not a bad thing either

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by EribaFan

We used about 500...600 Wh/mile (300...400 Wh/km) on a recent trip with our trailer. It’s interesting to translate that using EPA’s MPGe number that says 1 MPGe = 1 mi/33.7kWh. The 500 Wh/mi would mean 67 MPG fuel efficiency (somewhere around 4L/100km). We calculate, at this point, that we need to recharge at around 150 miles when towing, so that range anxiety doesn’t set in. The Supercharger network makes that a possibility, and when on vacation, having your lunch socially distanced in the trailer while getting ready for the next leg is not a bad thing either

Does towing a trailer make it hard to pull up to a supercharger? Do you have to unhitch every time you charge?

[EribaFan]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Does towing a trailer make it hard to pull up to a supercharger? Do you have to unhitch every time you charge?

You want to go to a Supercharger that has at least one charger for a pull-in configuration. Otherwise, if it's not crowded there, you can do it like in the 2nd photo. Plugshare.com typically has good photos from users of each Supercharger location that would tell you those details.

[redbarron55]

----Tesla Towing----
I think that my Touareg will tow a Tesla just fine.
Just sayin'
Trying to help out

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by EribaFan

You want to go to a Supercharger that has at least one charger for a pull-in configuration. Otherwise, if it's not crowded there, you can do it like in the 2nd photo. Plugshare.com typically has good photos from users of each Supercharger location that would tell you those details.

Thanks I am vaguely interested in a Cyber truck when my Ford gets to 4 or 5 years old and this was a concern. I have a few years to think about it anyway. That is an interesting looking trailer you have there.