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Old 11-13-2020, 07:12 PM   #21
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Name: Bonnie
Trailer: Casita
Massachusetts
Posts: 44
Some points I wish to make:

Most of the Electric Vehicle Service Equipment (a.k.a.: EVSE) have strict grounding requirements. A portable alternating current generator is not likely to be able to satisfy this safety requirement. Without this proper wiring connection, the EVSE (see ThomasC's picture in post #9) will not permit the the AC to DC charger built into the car to connect through the EVSE to a power supply.

I use biodiesel in my cars from Sept. 2001 until I sold my last one in 2018. I ran B99 and B100 9 months a year and diluted (polluted) with pump petrodiesel to about 25% bio in the coldest winter months. The bio diesel was from post-consumer waste cooking oil. I still have some biodiesel left from 2017 that I run in my diesel lawn tractor. My biodiesel was purchased retail, all applicable state and federal road taxes were paid at the pump.
In 2010 I had the opportunity to travel from Portland ME to Portland OR in a 1995 VW Cabrio diesel. I made the trip on public access, retail pump, biodiesel purchased on the way, no jerry cans in the car. I kept track of the trip and notes on the feedstock that the bio was made from.
In 2014 Tesla made a cross country trip to celebrate the completion of a string of Supercharger locations that could support such an endeavor. Tesla also kept track and proudly published their report.
I made a comparison.
Tesla LA to NYC, 3,464.5 mi. on 1,197.8 kWh or the energy equivalent of about 35 gallons of gasoline. Using the published locations of the 25 re-charge stops they used and the USEPA eGRID emissions for electric generation in each region, the CO2 equivalent emissions were 217.6 grams per mile. That rate of is the same as a gasoline vehicle getting 48 mpg.
My 2010 trip was 3,934.2 miles long and used 6 fuel stops for 80.166 gallons of B99 and B100 biodiesel. Based on the feed stock and the various 'well-to-wheels' energy intensity of the conversion to biodiesel, my CO2 equivalent emission was 152.5 grams per mile. That is a rate equivalent to a gasoline power vehicle getting 75 mpg.

My current (pun) Volt is only slightly less 'brown' than the long line of VW diesels I previously operated on biodiesel, and that's with my municipal power company supplying me power that is 75% from non-fossil energy sources. In the 2 1/2 years I've had it I've driven 20,384.7 miles on grid electric and 3409.9 miles on the gasoline on-board generator when the battery ran too low. The emissions work out to 113.2 miles per gallon in this one.

"Clean" doesn't mean 'green'. Electricity from coal produces an equivalent climate change impact of 1000 grams of CO2 for every kWh of energy. Liquid hydrogen? about 519 grams for the same energy output. Ethanol from corn? 357, pump gasoline? 345 grams. Liquid natural gas, 336. Photo voltaic electric, 46 grams. Biodiesel from waste, 36 grams. Nuclear, 16, and Wind, 12 grams.
I'm not able to locate my data for hydroelectric equivalent greenhouse gas emissions, but it's not zero, mostly to the CO2 of all that concrete and the loss of carbon sink from flooding. As I recall the per kWh of hydro was somewhere around PV in the 40 to 50 g/kWh range when amortized over the life of the system.

I have no justification in appropriating any "greener than thou" attitude, but "greenwashing" rankles me more than a little.
Can you tell?


off my soapbox,
Jon MB, (the thin skinned other half to Bonnie RB
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Old 11-13-2020, 08:28 PM   #22
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Name: Bonnie
Trailer: Casita
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One concern I have with considering towing with my Volt, or would need to consider with any other EV, is the issue of regenerative braking, the use of the electric motor to slow the car.
Use of the brake pedal when the "transmission" selector is in D and the regereration is less does illuminate the brake lights, but the motor slowing force is only on the two drive wheels.
The regeneration / slowing effect of just releasing the go pedal when in L mode on the "transmission" selector is a more aggressive slowing, but still only on the two drive wheels and this braking without use of the brake pedal does not illuminate the brake lights, so there'd be no electric trailer brake activation.
Only when going so slowly that the motor's braking effect is so diminished, say 5 mph or less, does the hydraulic four wheel friction brake system take over for the final stopping action.
The EVs are heavy relative to other similarly sized internal combustion engined vehicles. Adding a trailer of any weight / momentum to that further taxes the amount of coefficient of friction available on just two drive wheels to safely slow, or prevent hurtling down a hill, an EV and trailer combination.

Hydraulic 'surge' brakes on the trailer would permit 4 of the 6 wheels to provide braking, but surge brakes are not as common as previous.

So, I have the tow receiver mounted on the Volt, but that's for only the bike rack, at least until I come to terms with stopping a car AND a trailer by what is effectively shifting into reverse.
Jon MB
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Old 11-16-2020, 01:03 PM   #23
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I am all for electric vehicles. Hopefully they will get efficient enough to get in the common man territory soon. The idea that petroleum is going away is a pipe dream. It is used for much more than fuel including plastics, lubricants, food prep and much more.
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Old 11-16-2020, 02:01 PM   #24
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Name: Alexander
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Originally Posted by charlsara View Post
I am all for electric vehicles. Hopefully they will get efficient enough to get in the common man territory soon. The idea that petroleum is going away is a pipe dream. It is used for much more than fuel including plastics, lubricants, food prep and much more.
Not a pipe dream. As more and more evidence is published showing the dire health effects of microscopic bits of plastic in the environment to plants, animals and ultimately humans and more research into alternatives to petroleum products is funded the "pipe dream" will become reality.

I remember when it was a "pipe dream" that renewables would be cheaper than some fossil fuels like coal and oil, but here we are today where that has become reality.
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Old 11-17-2020, 11:13 AM   #25
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Not a pipe dream. As more and more evidence is published showing the dire health effects of microscopic bits of plastic in the environment to plants, animals and ultimately humans and more research into alternatives to petroleum products is funded the "pipe dream" will become reality.
And how many decades now have they been predicting the demise of fossil fuels? The world is awash in petroleum and our energy demands are ever increasing. The idea that we will abandon a cheap, plentiful and reliable energy source is unrealistic.

I'm all for finding alternatives, but I'm afraid that the "reality" is far less imminent then the desire by some to do so.
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Old 11-17-2020, 12:19 PM   #26
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Name: Alexander
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Originally Posted by Randy P. View Post
And how many decades now have they been predicting the demise of fossil fuels? The world is awash in petroleum and our energy demands are ever increasing. The idea that we will abandon a cheap, plentiful and reliable energy source is unrealistic.

I'm all for finding alternatives, but I'm afraid that the "reality" is far less imminent then the desire by some to do so.
We will abandon it because the environmental costs are too high. When factored in, the changes to the environment by way of increased strength and frequency of Hurricanes, Tornadoes and flooding alone will make it uneconomical to continue. Not to mention the decreased inhabitability of large portions of this country as well as around the world. We already are past the point where a 2 degree Centigrade (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) rise in average temperatures is a given unless we can start removing greenhouse gases from the air. Phoenix Arizona had a record 107.9 degree average summer temperature this year. Now add 3.6 degrees to that and you get 111.5. How long would that be sustainable?
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Old 11-17-2020, 02:41 PM   #27
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Name: David
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You think a model 3 towing a boler is impressive ....
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:42 PM   #28
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Name: CalCop
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This is all well and good until the batteries wear out.
Where does the old ones go. How much are the new going to cost?
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:09 AM   #29
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Name: Tom
Trailer: BigFoot 25B25RT
Massachusetts
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Million Mile

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Originally Posted by CalCop View Post
This is all well and good until the batteries wear out.
Where does the old ones go. How much are the new going to cost?
They pretty much have a million mile battery now. One of their engineers has started a recycling operation.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:06 PM   #30
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Name: Matt
Trailer: Casita
Washington
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I've seen a fair amount of Teslas towing here in WA.

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