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Old 05-10-2011, 04:28 PM   #41
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I have a hard time understanding why people want turn off the furnace at night. Do you turn off the furnace at home at night?
My furnace does not have a thermostat but a numbered dial; no electrical connection, no fan. I can turn the dial from low to high and anywhere in between. I usually turn in when the sun goes down and get up with the sun. In the fall the temperature is often not cold enough to leave the furnace on early in the evening without making it uncomfortably warm for sleeping. I travel with 2 sleeping bags. If I think it will get cold (ie. around the freezing mark) I'll use the -7 degree bag and leave it unzipped a bit. If it gets cold and I wake up I zip up the bag more. In the morning, when I wake up, I lean down and turn on the furnace and roll back for another half hour until it warms up a bit. I carry minimal water and it's in an insulated container. I put an anti freeze agent in the port-a-potti. By the way, I also turn the heat down at home at night in the winter and turn it up in the morning. Not everyone can camp as bare bones as I do but I see my Trillium as more of a hard, deluxe tent than a small house.
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Old 05-10-2011, 04:47 PM   #42
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Hi Baj,
Fresh water conservation is a big problem for me. I try my best, but end up having to refill my fresh water tank every few days. I recommend that you look for a nearby gas station which has a dumping station for your grey/black water tank, as well as a fresh water filling area. If you need to get more water before weekend's end, you will find that driving to that station will also serve to recharge your trailer battery.
Hello again, Baj

I'm glad Jane brought water conservation up.
This is always a major point for me, especially since I do so little camping in developed areas.
Most of the places where I camp for any length of time are chosen in large part for their proximity to fresh water, which can with a minimum of care be used for all purposes except drinking and cooking. The water I bring from home or another known potable water source is reserved for those purposes. It's really surprising how little water one actually directly consumes! Since I can easily carry the 15 gallons or so of drinking water that I need for a week and can't know the history of surface waters, my rule is that all such water is unfit to drink. But as a general rule, it's fine for other uses. Running water is preferred for clarity (NOT an indicator of drinkability!) You might have to let lake water stand in a bucket for a while to settle sediments before using.
Air drying of dishes is best, since most bacteriae/protozoae can't survive long without moisture. One's concerns about such hazards can be further allayed by washing, rinsing, and finally sanitizing by dipping dishes into a weak bleach solution (1tsp./gal. of water) and, again,air drying. The bleach will do its work and be gone once the dishes dry. One should take care not to use more bleach than that (health code) concentration- more will leave a nasty residue, and without any added benefit. The bleach also readily expends its strength and evaporates in the rinse bucket, and can be responsibly disposed of by the greywater disposal methods mentioned above.

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Old 05-10-2011, 05:00 PM   #43
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How long would I need to run(not driving, but just sitting idling) my TV to charge my deep cell battery up a bit?..

hehe thats another thing that will get you a big fine in my Province and I suspect a number of States as well. We are not allowed to let a car idle for more than 3 consecutive minites in a 60 minute period. Depending of the district you are in at the time, the fine can be from $45 min to $1000 max

In regards to camping without the heater running all night, keep in mind that the freash and black water holding tanks and their piping are all inside the trailer in the Scamp so the weather would have to be pretty close to or more likely well below freezing outside before they will freeze up over night - you could also add some anti freeze to the grey water tank if it was a concern. Yup my furnace at home is on auto set back at night -it goes way back - some might suggest that its actually off :-)
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:03 PM   #44
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I'm sorry but I would not live in such a place. I bet you cant go out in your yard pee either.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:08 PM   #45
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I bet you cant go out in your yard pee either.
I heard that will keep skunk and vermin away. Does it work for you?
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:18 PM   #46
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I've heard that too. I've never seen a skunk down here so maybe it works. I know dog pee will kill your shrubs.
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:42 PM   #47
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I'm sorry but I would not live in such a place. I bet you cant go out in your yard pee either.
Hate to break it to you but you already do live in such a place! Almost half of the US states have idling laws of some kind. It looks like having lots of oil fields means they have gone light on you in that regard though! LOL You get 5 min of idle time and its only in effect April 1- Oct 31 and only applies to vechiles over 14000lbs. Be warned though there are people lobbying to have the rules tighted up. :-)

re peeing in the yard - nope we cant any more than you can if there is anyone that can see you. Like here and most developed countries it is a criminal offense called 'indecent exposure'
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Old 05-10-2011, 06:51 PM   #48
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Well that's what I'm saying, I have 20 acres in the desert I can pee in my yard if I want to. Idle laws are usually for big cities with pollution problems, I have neither of those. As an x truck driver I really think idle laws suck, the cop that wants to write you a ticket for idling your truck engine so you can sleep in the AC is writing your ticket in his idling car with his AC on. All in all isn't that why we left the old country, too many rules?
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:12 PM   #49
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Hate to break it to you but you already do live in such a place! Almost half of the US states have idling laws of some kind. It looks like having lots of oil fields means they have gone light on you in that regard though! LOL You get 5 min of idle time and its only in effect April 1- Oct 31 and only applies to vechiles over 14000lbs. Be warned though there are people lobbying to have the rules tighted up. :-)

re peeing in the yard - nope we cant any more than you can if there is anyone that can see you. Like here and most developed countries it is a criminal offense called 'indecent exposure'

WRONG.... Idling laws in the US pertain to Diesel Trucks used for hauling freight. NOT automobiles or light trucks (pickups)
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:59 AM   #50
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In Oregon you'd get a big fat fine for allowing gray water to just run onto the ground. There's a reason it needs to be dispursed even in BLM or our forests. And don't even think about it in any park, improved or not.

Donna D. proud to be a tree hugger and steward of Oregon

If they get caught here in Colorado they would get a fine as well! Just cause their are some that practice this way of disposal doesn't mean it's legal!




Byron, Actually in Colorado the idling law pertains to gas powered vehicles as well. It's called the puffer law! I do believe it pertains to county's more that the whole state. But most counties on the front range have that law.
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:49 AM   #51
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WRONG.... Idling laws in the US pertain to Diesel Trucks used for hauling freight. NOT automobiles or light trucks (pickups)
Sorry Byron but as Robin suggests you need to check the local government laws not just the state law before traveling this summer - it might get expensive.

My understanding is that the US has the same system in regards to idling laws as we do north of the border. The State or in my case Province has a basic law in place but the local govenments can add to it or change it. An ever increasing number of local govenments have been putting in place idling laws that apply to all vehicles not just trucks hauling freight and not just in a big city. The need for cardon credits is driving the changes.

Sadly there is no one orginization in the USA that seems to keep track of all the local idling laws by state. The only document that I can find on line that list laws is dated 2006 which in todays Cardon Credit world it would be classed as *very* out of date. Even then it most probable did not include all the local laws in place at the time. But even back in 06 a number of places in the US had laws in place restricting idling in any motor vechile.

The document is here: http://www.epa.gov/smartway/documents/420b06004.pdf

I did not read it all but noted a few local laws listed within the following states: Colorado page 31, Vermont page 92, Washington Page 95, New York Page 65 to name just a few.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:53 AM   #52
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""We are not allowed to let a car idle for more than 3 consecutive minites in a 60 minute period""
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """

Heck, many of our stop lights last longer than that and with traffic you can often sit at idle for much longer!
BTW; Without the air conditioner running my old 300 CID six cylinder truck would use less than a pint per hour at Idle, modern cars should do even better if all the claims are true.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:57 AM   #53
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Floyd it takes longer than three minutes to defrost the windshield. Hell you bought the gas you should be able to use it as you see fit.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:00 PM   #54
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Floyd it takes longer than three minutes to defrost the windshield. Hell you bought the gas you should be able to use it as you see fit.
Just for clarity... you do know that my last post was in response to the quote at the top of it
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:06 PM   #55
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Is that good or bad? I just woke up.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:14 PM   #56
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Is that good or bad? I just woke up.
At a pint per hour, it would take eight hours to use a gallon of fuel,
good or bad, it's insignificant as far as overall fuel consumption , and huge in the minds of control freaks!
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:16 PM   #57
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Gotcha, we're on the same page.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:31 PM   #58
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Floyd what you say is very true! I dont know if it is the same in the States but here in Canada we have a very low voter turn out of local government elections - in the 20-30% range. I personally don't understand it as local government is more often than not the ones who put in the laws that have the biggest impact on our daily lives.

Locally before anything can be built or a law changed, the local government posted notices in the paper or in the mail, on their website, posters at the local library and they willl hold an informal open house and then hold 3 formal public hearings in their chambers. People are invited to speak at all hearings and or send in a written submission. Cant tell you how many times something goes through that no one says a word on until it directly impacts them or if someone did address it prior to it becoming law, they are more often than not representing a special intreast group. The average man on the street is all to often missing from those hearings.

Actually I should correct that there are three topics that will always generate a *big* turnout and lots of written submissions from all sides in my area. Those are changes to laws further restricting the cutting of trees, locations you can moutain bike or walk your dog off leash! Which proves to me that the system in place for getting world out is working its just that the average man on the street chooses to say nothing most of the time. Go figure.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:33 PM   #59
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""We are not allowed to let a car idle for more than 3 consecutive minites in a 60 minute period""
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """

Heck, many of our stop lights last longer than that and with traffic you can often sit at idle for much longer!
BTW; Without the air conditioner running my old 300 CID six cylinder truck would use less than a pint per hour at Idle, modern cars should do even better if all the claims are true.
Very true here as well - thats why they want you to turn the car off when stopped at a long light! :-)
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:36 PM   #60
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That's just goofy, At a RR xing I can see shutting off the engine but not at alight, it actually uses more gas to start it than it would to just sit there through the light cycle.
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