Toronto Travel Warning (LIFTED 4/29!!) - Fiberglass RV


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Old 04-24-2003, 05:17 PM   #1
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Toronto Travel Warning (LIFTED 4/29!!)

UPDATE!!! --- Today, 4/29, the W.H.O. lifted the travel advisory ban on Toronto! Yeah!

----------------

In case you missed it, the World Health Organization (WHO) issued a travel warning for Toronto, due to the SARS outbreak.

Most years, we head for the Canadian Maritimes, usually spending the first night in a neat, little provincial park, just northeast of Toronto, called Darlington Park.

We're unable to go to Canada this year, because our son and his long-time girlfriend are getting married in August ... and my wife wants to be around for most of July for wedding showers, planning, etc.

It's a shame ... but it's also kind of frightening about what's happening in China, Hong Kong and Toronto, Canada.

I sincerely am not one to panic or worry needlessly about something, but I'm glad we're unable to go the Maritimes this year ... and a route that would take us straight through Toronto.

The World Health Organization (WHO), in my opinion, sometimes misses the mark.

But I believe it was probably right in issuing a travel warning against traveling to Toronto this summer.

Of course, in my home state of Illinois, we had more deaths from the West Niles Virus than anywhere except Louisiana ... so staying here this summer might not be a good idea either. (I was wrong! Illinois lead the nation in West Niles deaths! See my post below!)

Good Grief!



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Old 04-24-2003, 05:24 PM   #2
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FYI

The Government of Canada, The Mayor of Toronto and the Federal Health Minister of Canada, and other such dignitaries (lol) have all condemmed the W.H.O for putting Toronto on the list.

16 people have died of which 13 were over 60 years old with prior medical conditions.

For what it's worth - I have mixed emotions - I'm flying to Toronto on Sunday............................



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Old 04-24-2003, 05:27 PM   #3
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But then again, our national airline, Air Canada, which has filed for Chapter 11 (Bankruptcy), has issued a statement saying that anyone who bought tickets to Toronto prior to April 25th for flights before mid May, may reschedule at no penalty whatsoever.

This is from an airline with the worst customer service and one who rejoices in ripping off the general public at any opportunity.

Maybe there is something to this SARS and Toronto.

As it happens I am flying WestJet.



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Old 04-24-2003, 05:34 PM   #4
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NOTE
You all have a bigger chance of dieing in a plane crash than from sars.



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Old 04-24-2003, 05:34 PM   #5
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Rick, I agree. If I had to go to Toronto on business, I'd leave tomorrow.

However, choosing to go there for pleasure .... well, I'd think twice about it.

And, as I said in my original post ... W.H.O. often gets it wrong.



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Old 04-24-2003, 05:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Orginally posted by Chester Taje

NOTE
You all have a bigger chance of dieing in a plane crash than from sars.
Oh thanks alot Ches. :o


Charles - like I said - mixed emotions. :)



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Old 04-24-2003, 05:38 PM   #7
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And, as I said, a bunch of people died from the West Niles Virus (bug born disease) in Illinois last summer ... the second highest West Niles death rate in the USA.



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Old 04-24-2003, 05:40 PM   #8
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this world is going to **** in a hand basket lately.

or is it just me getting older?

I'd actually place less confidence in my Government than WHO..they aren't profit driven are they? ;)



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Old 04-25-2003, 01:52 AM   #9
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Sars

Chances of becoming invected by Sars.

#1--You are more likely to die in a flood (1 in 237132)

#2--You are more likely to be murdered ( 1 in 503533 )

#3--Strangle your self in bed ( 1 in 10779 )

#4--Safest way to travel is in a plane.There is more chance to be killed in a plane crash than to get sars.

Information from National Post. (Canadian National Paper )



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Old 04-25-2003, 06:49 AM   #10
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SARS

:wave Hello everyone,

I must give you my two cents worth of input on this subject. Nobody be afraid to come to Toronto as it is perfectly safe. I am a firefighter in Toronto and am going out on calls every day of my shifts and am not scared at all. The health care people in Toronto have and are doing an excellent job of controlling the situation and as has been stated feel that this small outbreak will be over shortly. As a front line worker in emergencies, I feel that the health care industry has only improved in some areas because of SARS and that is a good thing overall. But Toronto is safe, beautiful and has lots to offer, SO DON'T BE AFRAID TO COME!!!!!!!!

Take care all and I'll see you in Toronto camping.

Jody



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Old 04-25-2003, 07:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chester Taje
#3--Strangle your self in bed ( 1 in 10779 )
strangle yourself?? get those hands off my neck - Oh!! they're mine :lol I know this isn't what you meant, but it does read strange.

Wow, Jody, a firefighter. :wub Hi , I consider you a celebrity. I'm in aw of all you do as a firefighter. and thanks for the reality check and up date.



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Old 04-25-2003, 07:35 AM   #12
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Applaud Toronto ...

Applaud Toronto and Canada for being up front and open about the SARs cases in their city. :ola
I feel confident that they are taking the necessary steps to control the spread of the virus. However, let's not kid ourselves our world is definitely getting smaller. No matter where we live or travel we will contact others from far off places. Personally, I will do what I can to protect myself ... I will not travel if I am ill, and I will wash my hands frequently.
First trip of the summer will be to Ottawa, Ontario for the Tulip Festival starting on May 14. Anyone else?



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Old 04-25-2003, 07:53 AM   #13
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Hi Jody! Thanks for the imput! The US Center for Disease Control (CDC) issued an appeal to the W.H.O. to retract its travel advisory for Toronto today, but the W.H.O. is refusing to do it.

But your comments (and your professional opinion) means more to me!

I'll meet up with you next time I pass through Toronto ... we can camp together at Darlington, right on Lake Ontario, ok?

As I said, we were planning a summer-long trip to the Maritimes (we go there often), but this year, we going to spend the entire summer there ... until our son announced his wedding.

Otherwise, we undoubtedly would have gone through Toronto ... and stayed at Darlington (which is usually our first night stop)depending on Toronto traffic.

I also want to stop at an inner city Canadian Tire, and once again thank the guys there for helping me out in a jam, technically after hours.

Nice people in Toronto. And a nice place to visit.

It's a shame that this had to happen.



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Old 04-25-2003, 08:33 AM   #14
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SARS

It's not so much the current state of things that is being looked at - but the trends. Doesn't look THAT bad in Toronto right now, but it also seems to be following the same trends as the disease has in China where it is ramping up in infection rates as well as affecting more otherwise healthy people. Anyway - the overriding concern ISN'T the chance that you're gonna die from it if you travel to Toronto, you probably won't even if you are infected. The concern is that you'll bring it back with you to wherever you're from and have a hand in helping spread the virus.

The statistics quoted about odds of dying of various oddball things - I'll take your word on the values, but those are going to be probabilities over your entire lifetime. Those are being compared to CURRENT numbers of people who've died of SARS. Not quite fair considering the disease hasn't peaked yet.

For another comparison - the rate at which SARS kills is about 0.5% (one out of every 200 infected will die). Seems low - but that's roughly the same death rate that the Flu pandemic of 1918 - which by the end of the story had killed something like 30 million.

West Nile on the other hand has been slowly marching around for the last several years. Kills a few people here and there but shows no signs of exploding outward. It's mostly hype.

mkw



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Old 04-25-2003, 11:39 AM   #15
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>>west niles no explosion

Ah Mike, I was wrong! In 2002, according to the Center for Disease Control, Illinois lead the nation in human West Niles deaths ... There were 64 reported human deaths from the virus (2 deaths the year before).

Michigan recorded the second highest number of human West Niles deaths in 2002: 51

http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/wncount.htm

Say what you like, but here in the midwest, West Niles exploded last year. And according to the CDC, the numbers will undoubtedly grow this year.

Nationwide, in 2002, West Niles killed 284 folks ... more than SARs has killed in China, Hong Kong and Toronto (so far, that is).

Now, West Niles can't be spread as quickly as SARs ... but still ... it's a real threat.

We're treating our hiking clothes with permethrin and wearing bug repellent, particularly dawn and dusk.



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Old 04-25-2003, 12:11 PM   #16
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There is a great deal to be said for some of the points you made, Mike. It is always important to consider how our actions might affect others, not just ourselves. I spoke with our local health officer about the West Nile issue, and he basically snorted with contempt. Sure it's real, but it's one of any number of pest-transmitted diseases, and simply doesn't deserve all the press it gets. As for the SARS issue, the jury is still out, but if going to Toronto or wherever puts you or people you contact at risk, consider it carefully. But, in the midst of all this sickness, terrorism and destruction, life goes on, and I intend to be one of those who is living it! My odds of dying crossing the street to get the mail will always remain higher than from any of these diseases, and yet I take that risk every day.



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Old 04-25-2003, 12:46 PM   #17
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SARS vs. West Nile - Battle of the Titans!

Here's a similar table for SARS:

http://www.who.int/csr/sarscountry/2003_04_25/en/

There's been more West Nile deaths (10 more - I'll grant though, I haven't followed it much recently and clearly last year was bad). However - A look at the numbers makes it clear why there was a travel advisory put out.

If you lump together the countries at the core of the outbreak (China and immediate vicinity) - and then ask where the next major centers are:

It's Canada (with 140 cases) and the US (with 39 cases) - no other country even is in double digits of confirmed cases yet.

Again - I would emphasize the SPEED at which SARS is expanding in contrast to the very slow march of West Nile.

mkw



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Old 04-25-2003, 01:06 PM   #18
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>>speed

I agree. Apparently some doctor in Boston is suspected of having SARs after a visit to Toronto.

This is what's frightening about SARs.

I think we're all saying the same thing.

Let's all pray that they get a handle on the SARs virus ASAP.

Bug spray will keep the mosquitos and West Niles at bay ... but who knows what or who or how SARs will spread in the future.



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Old 04-26-2003, 02:30 PM   #19
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Toronto

Hi Everyone,

First off... let me say to Charles: "hey! cool! I grew up 30 min from Darlington PP! I've camped there a few times as a Girl Guide."

Secondly... to Diane: "I'll be in Ottawa for the weekend of the 15th to 19th visiting family and tulips. :-) Small world, eh?"

And finally... on the topic of the thread, The WHO just announced that it will be reviewing it's decision about the travel advisory for Toronto.

Considering my cousin was just laid off from her job because of this advisory (she works at the Convention Center by the CN Tower), I hope that (A) the advisory is not needed and gets removed, and (B) the number of new cases really are declining as I've read in the news lately.

~ Melanie



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Old 04-26-2003, 04:46 PM   #20
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SARS and t.o.

Norm was at seminars for work at the edge of Chinatown from Apr 8-11th. He ate out every night and went to a Blue Jays game. All this despite the yelling that our daughters were doing.MOM, DO YOU KNOW WHERE DAD WENT? YOU TELL HIM HE CAN'T DO THAT!
Well I did TELL him to WASH his hands every time he came back in.
He saw no one in masks. He is now past the 10 day incubation period. But there apparently are less people coming to Toronto. The problem areas to avoid are the affected Toronto hospitals.Throughout the province every visitor to hospitals and nursing homes are being screened and all must sign afidavits (spelling?) that -they haven't been to China in past 10 days; haven't been to any Toronto hosp. that has suspected cases; haven't been in contact with anyone who is suspected of having it; have not been asked to go into voluntary quarantine; and do not themselves have a temp over 100-4F(38c)or a chest cold or headache or malaise. As I work in both a hosp. and a nrg home I am screened every day.- and I am quite pleased to be screened- Anyone who doesn't go into voluntary quarantine if requested will be put in mandatory isolation.The Toronto health unit is adamant that it not be allowed to spread into the general population. It hasn't so far and we pray that it doesn't. All cases can still be traced back to the original exposure from China. I had planned to go with him, but his aunt was dying, and I didn't want risk not getting in to see her upon return - a ban on all visitors to every hospital in the province had just been issued on the 1st. Now most pt. are allowed one visitor during restricted hours, providing they pass the screening, and the area has remained SARS free.
By the way we live 60 miles from T.O.
End of news report according to Jean



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