Tow vehicle 2WD or 4WD

[John in Santa Cruz]

its been quite a long time since anyone I know had any sort of Nissan... what I'm remembering from their 80s/90s vehicles is, strong powerful engines, with cheap flimsy cabs and interiors that fell apart, sorta like the same era Dodges. Have they overcome this stigma ?

[Raz]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

its been quite a long time since anyone I know had any sort of Nissan... what I'm remembering from their 80s/90s vehicles is, strong powerful engines, with cheap flimsy cabs and interiors that fell apart, sorta like the same era Dodges. Have they overcome this stigma ?

I've only owned Frontiers so I have no idea about the rest of Nissans products. The Frontier is an "old school" low tech pick up. Because of that it gets low ratings by the experts. Nissan has made the same truck since 2005 so they have got the bugs out. Ive found the v6 has more power than I need and is well matched to the 5 speed automatic. I dont find it flimsy and nothing is falling apart but it is pretty basic even on the higher trim models. The seats are comfortable, the ride is fine, and its easy to do the basic maintenance. The oil filter is a pita to get to but after you've changed it a few times you get used to it. They have been promising a redesign for years. I think 2020 is the latest speculation.

[Fred762]

Originally Posted by Raz

I've only owned Frontiers so I have no idea about the rest of Nissans products. The Frontier is an "old school" low tech pick up. Because of that it gets low ratings by the experts. Nissan has made the same truck since 2005 so they have got the bugs out. Ive found the v6 has more power than I need and is well matched to the 5 speed automatic. I dont find it flimsy and nothing is falling apart but it is pretty basic even on the higher trim models. The seats are comfortable, the ride is fine, and its easy to do the basic maintenance. The oil filter is a pita to get to but after you've changed it a few times you get used to it. They have been promising a redesign for years. I think 2020 is the latest speculation.

Yup we looked at all the available midsize trucks and really looked hardest at the Toyota and the Frontier..drove both alot and my wife & I both decided we liked the Frontier way better. Rode smoother and the dlr (a friend of the family btw) found us just what we wanted and had it shipped from GA up to his shop at no charge.
White double-cab, long-bed, 2wd, V6. No fancy "nav system" or anything like that..just a good truck w AT, factory tow pkg, PW, PS, PB, alloy wheels, extended warantee and a AM/FM/CD player & 2 USB outlets.
Bonus..Frontier is built right here in USofAye vs Toyotya built in MayHEko. WE both liked the ride, looks and interior room..a no brainer as we got a deal from our friend the dealer.
WE added an anti-sway hitchball setup from Casita, undercoating and a locking Bak-Flip tonneau cover to keep the 73" bed dry. Worx 4 us ;-)

[John in Santa Cruz]

FWIW, my 2008 Tacoma was built right here in Fremont, California, about an hour's drive from me.... that plant, formerly NUMA, is now Tesla.

[ShelbyM]

A friend's Titan saved his bacon last year. Pulling a horse trailer on a slippery (can't remember rain or ice) interstate, the whole rig went sideways. Apparently the wizardry of the truck straightened it all out before they hit anything. Nissan was sponsor of our cycling club's big event for several years. I got to drive one of their Armadas for a day, a fabulous vehicle!

[Fred762]

My bad in previous post..The salesman at a Toyota dlr told me last fall (while we were looking at buying a new tow vehicle) that the Tacomas were Mexican-built...in a Toyota designed factory. I had no reason to doubt that.

[MyronL]

The thing about 4WD is you really don't need it until you really need it.

[Carol and Mike]

Originally Posted by Fred762

My bad in previous post..The salesman at a Toyota dlr told me last fall (while we were looking at buying a new tow vehicle) that the Tacomas were Mexican-built...in a Toyota designed factory. I had no reason to doubt that.

Toyota trucks are now made here in San Antonio, both the Tacoma and Tundra. Mike

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by MyronL

The thing about 4WD is you really don't need it until you really need it.

I call that a good road...LOL!

For winter highway driving your tires matter more than 4WD, because they not only help you move but also turn and stop. You're also better off in a lower center of gravity AWD than a high clearance 4WD truck or traditional SUV. Give me a Subaru with Blizzaks for that road.

That said, there are times when a traditional 4WD is needed to get the job done: deep snow, backcountry roads, mud and sand... The real question is whether most people really need to drive in those conditions? I maintain it's not really about need but about want. Some people want to be able to move in all kinds of conditions. Others are content to accept some limitations. A few people, due to where they live or the kind of work they do, have a real need to be able to drive in all kinds of conditions.

And there's this: when you're stuck in a 4x4, you're really stuck! They don't call it a "tow," they call it "extrication."

[ShelbyM]

Lots of cool gear and techniques involved in 4X4 extrication! Fun way to waste time on Youtube, especially with the Aussies.

[Fred762]

I have had several 4x4 vehicles over the decades...have actuaqlly NOT been w/o a least one 4x4 since 1979, til recently. I bought my first CJ Jeep and a 4x4 truck in 1979 or 1980 and have spent a fair amt of time off road and 'tenting' back when I was an Asst Scoutmaster for 8-9 yrs, in the late '80s-early 90's.

We camped in all months of the year, including January "Make or Break" where Scouts and Leaders all had to build their own shelters and sleep in them at least one night . The boys always said that MoB weekend was "THE BEST campout of the year". That said, I sold my Harley and last 4x4 a 2011 Jeep a couple of yrs ago. I am now over70 and I and my wife decided to get back into camping, but a bit more relaxed version.
WE plan alot of trips, including some boondocking. but do not plan serious off road experiences ergo, the 2x4 tow vehicle..plenty of room and seems to haul anything we need.
Been there and done that.

[Raspy]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

And there's this: when you're stuck in a 4x4, you're really stuck! They don't call it a "tow," they call it "extrication."

Towing a fiberglass trailer on vacation is far different than going out and deliberately getting stuck trying to climb a mountain in the snow, or just showing off. It's not about pushing the absolute limits of a 4WD vehicle and then needing help, or an extraction, to get out.

The place where four wheel drive is very useful and related to this thread, is where someone gets stuck, unexpectedly in their 2WD truck. Like on wet grass, or one wheel in mud, or on a dirt road while pulling their trailer, or in a wet parking lot, or in a surprise snow flurry. Then 4WD drive gets you out and you are on your way with no drama. That is why it's so handy. It doesn't mean you go looking for a way to defeat the abilities of your truck in some kind of contest.

If someone wants to go and get "really stuck", they need a Jeep with a winch and other people along to tow them out for fun. They certainly should not be doing it while towing. The difference between getting stuck in 2WD and getting stuck in 4WD is huge. Having 4WD is why you don't have to call for help in the middle of the night because you dropped a wheel off the edge of the road. It's why you don't get stuck and block traffic on a mountain highway. It's simply a way to get more traction if you need it, and at some point, we all probably will. It also allows us to venture a bit farther in and find camping spots off the paved highway. It's about NOT needing a tow truck, instead of finding one to extract you.

[Jon in AZ]

That last paragraph was (mostly) tongue-in-cheek. I included it because there is always the temptation to take greater risks "because I've got a 4x4." A sensible person understands its limitations, especially when towing.

As to the rest, I think we're saying the same thing. The more you venture off the beaten path, the more you drive and tow in all seasons, the more likely you'll need 4WD at some point.

Plenty of people stay closer to civilization and do fine without it.

[1500]

If I was just thinking about towing and using it as such (and lived down south), I would go with 2wd. I have towed in snow, didn't like it and will do my best to no do it again (also didn't use the 4wd). And most of the situations that you would need 4wd I would not be taking my trailer. Of all the times I have driven off road I can only think of a couple that I unexpectedly got stuck and needed to use 4wd to get out of. I have also been stuck when I had 4wd (didn't have a locking differential, well still don't), and had to have another truck pull me out.

That being said my TV is my daily driver and I like to play in the Idaho mountains so I need 4wd and would not get a truck without it.

[Ed Harris]

I went to pick up one of my Cargo Trailers Yesterday and found it surrounded by muddy wet gravel and grass in the parking spot next to a Barn where I have it stored.

I was in the Land Cruiser which is a pretty capable AWD vehicle by any measure and I ended up leaving the trailer where it was and barely getting out at all without needing to fetch the Tractor to pull the Cruiser.

I have camped in Indiana a few times where I had trouble getting out of the Campsite where it had rained overnight and was a much different terrain there than when I had parked the day before.

Having 4wd is great when I need it and no bother at all when I do not.
There is no practical downside that I can think of from my actual experience either aside from maybe higher buy-in at the start but I am not really certain that is a huge deal for me either,I NEVER buy new trucks anyway.

Maybe slightly lower MPG and maybe slightly more wear dragging around drivetrain that I am not using all the time other than for my Peace of Mind which is a real feature to me.

I like having more options and having 4wd certainly gives me that.

There is also proven higher resale when I am ready to find something else to drive and need to sell the truck I am in now if it has 4wd.

[Ed Harris]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I call that a good road...LOL!

For winter highway driving your tires matter more than 4WD, because they not only help you move but also turn and stop. You're also better off in a lower center of gravity AWD than a high clearance 4WD truck or traditional SUV. Give me a Subaru with Blizzaks for that road.

That said, there are times when a traditional 4WD is needed to get the job done: deep snow, backcountry roads, mud and sand... The real question is whether most people really need to drive in those conditions? I maintain it's not really about need but about want. Some people want to be able to move in all kinds of conditions. Others are content to accept some limitations. A few people, due to where they live or the kind of work they do, have a real need to be able to drive in all kinds of conditions.

And there's this: when you're stuck in a 4x4, you're really stuck! They don't call it a "tow," they call it "extrication."

I think they call it a "Recovery" in general in the Towing World.

[ShelbyM]

Yeah, "recovery!" I mentioned to my wife that with the right gear (winch, ropes, straps, etc,etc) we could lower the Casita down the embankment back of the house, free up parking space. For some reason she didn't think it was a good idea....

[mizterwizard]

With 4WD a PTO winch, a turbo diesel engine and enough Sherpas, you could camp on the top of Everest, assuming you could outrun the Nepalese police. I don't think that is what most of us have in mind though.

You just never know when 4WD will come in handy. We went on vacation in our Vanagon to the Oregon coast once. It was a year of big floods but we got there after the floods had subsided a lot so it was no problem. We went through Montana on our way home to Idaho to see my wife's sister.

We took Interstate 90 between Spokane and Missoula. I had been raining most of the time we were gone but nothing spectacular. As we headed toward the divide the rain turned to light snow but the roads were just wet so it was okay. About 5 miles short of the summit the snow began to stick and cover the road. The Vanagon was rear engined of course so I wasn't worried. We had good tires on. As we neared the summit the snow on the road turned to packed ice but they had graders and sand trucks out. Traction was just on the edge of enough. I've had some experience with winter driving so I wasn't worried. I just kept the throttle at the limit and I was doing 45 just fine.

Then a car that had stopped at the side of the road pulled out right in front of me. I had to shift down, meaning I had more torque to the tires and it was more difficult to keep it from spinning. About 1/4 mile further along it was looking pretty iffy because I would spin, lose traction, back off to stop the spin, lose speed and then try again from a lower speed. In the end I pulled to the high side of the road and stopped to see if I could shift some weight and make some other adjustments to get going again. No luck.

A cop stopped to see if we needed a tow but I told him that I thought I could get going again but when I tried the rear just spun out and swung toward the low side of the road. About then a guy with an old Ford 4X4 with chains on all 4 stopped and offered to tow me to the top for $50. I accepted his offer and 15 minutes later we were on the other side on wet but clear roads and on our way. I asked him if he was making his Christmas money and he said he was and the it was a boon for him. I for one was happy to pay the cost.

In Missoula we stopped and got tire chains. I still have them though the Vanagon is long gone. They are unused.

4WD is a Boy Scout motto thing for most people. You just never know when you will need it but if you ever really do you will be glad to have it.

When the sky looks like precipitation you don't have to stay home if you have 4WD. When the road is getting steep and gravelly you can keep going. With true 4WD you have a low range which comes in handy for going slowly more often than it is needed for pulling power.

But if you live in Arizona, don't mind staying home when the weather isn't nice, have never been on a bad road or just can't afford it, then 4WD is optional and you can live a pretty nice life without it.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by mizterwizard

...But if you live in Arizona, don't mind staying home when the weather isn't nice, have never been on a bad road or just can't afford it, then 4WD is optional and you can live a pretty nice life without it.

If you mean me, I have lived in the White Mountains of eastern Arizona for 35 years and owned numerous 4WD and AWD vehicles over the years- there's one in the driveway now. I took my '87 Toyota 4x4 and my '98 Nissan 4x4 (manual tranny and transfer case with low range & manual hubs) on all kinds of snowy and muddy roads just because... it was fun. I also enjoyed getting out to ski downhill or cross-country before the roads cleared and the crowds came.

When my commute included 20 miles of curvy, snow and ice covered mountain roads with a 2000' elevation change from home to work, a '93 Subaru Legacy AWD never failed me in 12 years and 210K miles, and I left more than a few 4x4 trucks in the ditch. For highway winter conditions- packed snow and ice, the Subaru was much more sure-footed than either truck.

So, please don't patronize. I just don't find 4WD a necessity for travel trailer towing. I have taken my low-clearance Scamp and 2WD Pilot down some pretty steep, gravelly, and rutted back roads. It takes a bit more care to be sure. I'll admit I no longer enjoy overnight camping during extended bad weather, though there is always the unexpected. The Boy Scout motto is good, and I am an Eagle Scout, but it can be taken to absurd extremes. I was just looking at the "Zombie Apocalypse RV"...

I would never stop anyone from buying a 4WD vehicle if needed or desired for your particular climate and towing conditions. I just don't consider it necessary for everyone.

[MyronL]

Great I-90 story. Yep, it's fun all right.