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06-17-2022, 09:57 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Trailer: LittleGuy Classic Teardrop ('Baby Osmo') (Previously 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe)
Posts: 234
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Towing with Kia Niro Hybrid
Good morning - is there anybody here that is towing a fiberglass camper with a Kia Niro hybrid? There seems to be some confusion online, but the dealer assures me that Kia does rate it to tow 2,800 lbs. That does not mean, however, that it would be a good towing experience. So, is anyone actually doing it, and how well does the car handle it? I already have a very capable tow vehicle and a trailer, but am considering switching to something more fuel-efficient. Thanks!
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06-17-2022, 10:36 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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I googled and downloaded a PDF version of the 2022 Kia Niro Plug-in Hybrid owner's manual from the Kia website. Here's what it says on p. 5-191 (click to enlarge): "We do not recommend using this vehicle for trailer towing."
It is not uncommon for vehicles to have different tow ratings in different markets. The link and manual page are for the US version.
The trailer listed in your profile is not one I'm familiar with, and a google search turned up zip. What is it and how much does it weigh?
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06-17-2022, 10:43 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Name: Kenneth
Trailer: Scamp
Wisconsin
Posts: 1,858
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Get it in writing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. W.
Good morning - is there anybody here that is towing a fiberglass camper with a Kia Niro hybrid? There seems to be some confusion online, but the dealer assures me that Kia does rate it to tow 2,800 lbs. !
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Are you under warranty? Make him show you in the book or on your door plate. Even if they do I would not tow based on this report. https://thedriveradviser.com/6-commo...a-niro-hybrid/
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06-17-2022, 10:44 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Trailer: 13 ft Boler
Posts: 1,174
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"Tell 'em what they wanna hear"
Salesman's first rule,,,
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06-17-2022, 11:06 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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How far does the dealer expect the hybrid to tow before it requires charging. Towing halves the range.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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06-17-2022, 11:44 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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My son-in-law is looking at a 2020 Volvo XC 90 hybrid. It has enough range for my daughter to get to work and back. Towing a trailer, she would only get to work.
My point is that a hybrid running on gas because the battery is out of gas is pointless. And, the popular campground that my daughter has booked has no AC so I'm staying home. Can't run my CPAP and Oxygen concentrator on battery.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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06-17-2022, 12:21 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Name: John
Trailer: T@B
British Columbia
Posts: 295
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06-17-2022, 12:28 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Trailer: LittleGuy Classic Teardrop ('Baby Osmo') (Previously 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe)
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRED SMAILES
"Tell 'em what they wanna hear"
Salesman's first rule,,,
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This may well be the case, but before we assume that, I also see this on multiple towing websites:
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06-17-2022, 12:28 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Trailer: LittleGuy Classic Teardrop ('Baby Osmo') (Previously 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe)
Posts: 234
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The Kia dealer told me that his internal documentation agrees with this, but it is also true that the owner's manual does not recommend towing.
So, I am trying to do my homework. If I cannot verify the tow rating, I will not be buying one.
To answer the other questions, the OOH! Osmo is my own creation. This version is a 12' camper (16' overall). It weighs right at 2400# with batteries and loaded to camp. It has rooftop A/C, walk-around double bed, two reclining captains chairs, potty closet, kitchen, fridge, microwave and dinette. I could knock about 250# off of that by switching to a lithium battery and taking out the captains chairs.
And, Glenn, more than 1/2 of my annual miles are non-towing. That is why I want a hybrid. The Niro gets 54 mpg around town. I don't expect to get much hybrid benefit while towing. My current vehicles tows just fine, but I get between 12 and 15 mpg, and that is crimping my style.
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06-17-2022, 01:25 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Name: Shelby
Trailer: Casita SD
Tennessee
Posts: 1,087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. W.
To answer the other questions, the OOH! Osmo is my own creation. This version is a 12' camper (16' overall). It weighs right at 2400# with batteries and loaded to camp. It has rooftop A/C, walk-around double bed, two reclining captains chairs, potty closet, kitchen, fridge, microwave and dinette. I could knock about 250# off of that by switching to a lithium battery and taking out the captains chairs.
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Pics, please!
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06-17-2022, 01:47 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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06-17-2022, 01:56 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Trailer: LittleGuy Classic Teardrop ('Baby Osmo') (Previously 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe)
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ
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Thanks - lots of good input there. It does not sound like the Niro is a good option. Pity.
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06-17-2022, 01:57 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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Another option to consider is the Toyota RAV4 Prime. Like the Niro it’s a PHEV. Unlike the Niro, it’s rated to tow 2500#. At the moment they’re nearly impossible to find and sell for thousands over MSRP, but it does check all your boxes (barely).
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06-17-2022, 02:08 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Trailer: LittleGuy Classic Teardrop ('Baby Osmo') (Previously 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe)
Posts: 234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ
Another option to consider is the Toyota RAV4 Prime. Like the Niro it’s a PHEV. Unlike the Niro, it’s rated to tow 2500#. At the moment they’re nearly impossible to find and sell for thousands over MSRP, but it does check all your boxes (barely).
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I can't afford the MSRP of a RAV4, let alone thousands over! I just want too much for too little, I suppose.
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06-17-2022, 08:05 PM
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#15
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Moderator
Trailer: Fiber Stream 1978 / Honda Odyssey LX 2003
Posts: 8,222
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KIA Niro tows Compact Jr.
The people I sold "Boomerang" (my 1971 Compact Jr.) to are towing it with a KIA Niro. As reconstructed and modified, Boomerang weighed 1800 pounds, and I understand they are satisfied with the combination. They are also using a Bluetooth wireless Electric Brake Controller. I will visit them next month and ask more detailed questions.
__________________
Frederick - The Scaleman
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06-18-2022, 07:40 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo
How far does the dealer expect the hybrid to tow before it requires charging. Towing halves the range.
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Answer: all day. But you will have to stop for gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo
My son-in-law is looking at a 2020 Volvo XC 90 hybrid. It has enough range for my daughter to get to work and back. Towing a trailer, she would only get to work.
My point is that a hybrid running on gas because the battery is out of gas is pointless…
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Only pointless if your goal is zero tailpipe emissions. Hybrids have much smaller battery arrays and can only run in full EV mode at lower speeds and for a limited number of miles. They will not, as you suggest, allow the battery to fully deplete before switching to gas operation. They are programmed to maintain some battery reserve at all times.
Towing a trailer will cause the gas engine to fire up, though you might be able to sneak out of a campground in EV mode. Once on the highway, operation is just like a gas vehicle, and you look for gas stations en route, not charging stations. Regenerative braking (which happens any time you lift off the throttle, such as coasting down a gentle decline) will put some juice back into the battery as you drive, and the electric motor will provide short bursts of extra power when you punch the throttle. The plug-in feature on some hybrids allows you to top off the battery overnight at the campground (when power is available) and start each day with a full charge for maximum efficiency. But unlike a full BEV, you don’t have to.
Is there any point? I can suggest two. One, the availability of supplementary electric motive power allows a smaller gas engine to run on the more efficient Atkinson cycle, reducing fuel use and emissions. You won’t get 50 mpg when towing, but you will generally do better than a gas-only vehicle of similar size and performance. Two, you’ll get much better gas mileage in everyday use, which for most people comprises 75% or more of annual miles driven. That could include emissions-free daily commuting for some plug-in hybrids… as long as your employer doesn’t have a “Bring Your Trailer to Work Day”
Is there a downside? Again, I can suggest two. One, from an environmental standpoint, a hybrid requires additional components and materials that must be extracted from the earth, producing emissions and consuming water in the process. Two, from a practical standpoint, a hybrid often has a smaller fuel tank than a comparable gas-only model. That may mean more frequent fuel (not recharging) stops when towing, since you’ll take a larger hit on gas mileage.
A hybrid vehicle makes the most sense if towing duty is limited to a small fraction of your annual miles driven. It makes more sense than a BEV if you live where charging stations are few and far between, or if you travel and camp in such places.
Not all hybrids are created equal. The Kia Niro uses a dual clutch transmission, which could be the weak link for towing. Other hybrids use conventional belt-and-pulley CVTs. Toyota uses electric motors in the transaxle, which seems to give better capability and durability in towing service. Here's an interesting look inside the RAV4 Hybrid transaxle. The RAV4 Prime uses a different version of this transaxle, larger motors, and a bigger battery for a higher tow rating (1750# for the HEV, and 2500# for the PHEV).
When you’re pursuing efficiency and towing a trailer, weight is not the only consideration. Frontal area and aerodynamic profile matter too. I’d still love to see pictures of the OP’s home built trailer.
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06-18-2022, 02:45 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Name: Steve
Trailer: Escape 15A
Minnesota
Posts: 452
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A Kia Niro plug in EV only has a 26 mile all-electric range, so we can safely assume they will be using the gasoline motor for most any towing trip.
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06-18-2022, 04:33 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Name: Shelby
Trailer: Casita SD
Tennessee
Posts: 1,087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon in AZ
I’d still love to see pictures of the OP’s home built trailer.
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Me too! The walk around bed and recliners got my attention.
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06-18-2022, 04:37 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Carlson
A Kia Niro plug in EV only has a 26 mile all-electric range, so we can safely assume they will be using the gasoline motor for most any towing trip.
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Wonder what kind of gas mileage it gets towing? And, what grades it can climb?
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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06-18-2022, 05:23 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Trailer: LittleGuy Classic Teardrop ('Baby Osmo') (Previously 13 ft Scamp Custom Deluxe)
Posts: 234
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I will try to find some recent pictures, but it looks very much like a 6x12 V-and drop-nose cargo trailer, which is what it is, more or less. I had it built with a solid rear wall and 6'6" headroom. Then, I gutted everything out, including the floor, and built back lighter. It is insulated with white bead styrofoam, laminated to 1/8 lightweight paneling. The recliners came out of a Honda Odyssey, and are very comfortable, but they are fairly heavy, especially for how little we use them. They are under the murphy bed. The potty room pulls out to double its size, a-la Winnebago Rialta.
As far as aerodynamics, apparently V-nose campers are not as efficient as one would think -- it has since been explained to me that the Vee is actually worse than a slightly rounded front, and the hard corners are bad, too. Live and learn...
I think I could build another one a few hundred pounds lighter, by saving weight on the cabinetry and floor. So, were I to do it again, (which I might), I would target 1200-1400 lbs and much-improved aerodynamics. That would require me building the frame and shell, rather than buying one. But, in the meantime, this one packs a lot into a little space at a reasonable weight. Just not quite light enough for hybrids.
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