Trailer Owners Lack of Integrity?

[Johnny M]

Our Boler had 2 layers of newer wood on top of older rotten lower floor 3 layers total, so I am pretty sure the PO new about it but it could have been like that since he owned it but I doubt it. The upper floors had some hidden rot too but I am pretty certain the PO probably wasn't aware of that as I didn't find it until we tried to remove the screws to get the body off the frame. In addition the roof mount a/c was poorly installed and the wood on top had already rotted in just 3 years but it is possible he wasn't aware of that if he hadn't been on a ladder to check it out. Also him or another PO had poorly patched the original holes for the fridge, furnace, stove vent, water, & electric connections...I didn't notice this until the day after we bought it and saw hairline cracks in the paint upon which the panels pushed out completely from the inside with light pressure applied (bondo was used to patch with no fiberglass reinforcement)...none of this was mentioned to either of us when we bought it, they guy seemed friendly and honest, showed us that everything worked and some minor cosmetic things so I really don't know if he hid this stuff from us or not but I could see where he might not have know if it was like that from a PO prior to him, but most likely not. Anyway, we bought it and still got a good deal for what we paid for it and are almost through with the complete restoration from the frame up...would we do it again? Probably so based on the price, but it would have been nice to know it needed new floors & fiberglass work before we bought it

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by rbryan

There have always been unscrupulous sellers in every market. I think what you may be seeing is that there's an increase in dishonesty and a decrease in integrity in general - not just with buying/selling, but in society as a whole. Owning a fiberglass trailer doesn't automatically make you an honest fellow. Some bad folks have them too. As others have said, (especially in the society we live in today) caveat emptor.

Sadly, I'm afraid that Robert said above is true!

The day of a hand-shake deal is long gone....and I don't believe that is a good thing....but, that's our world today.

Of course, I guess that there was also dishonest horse & wagon traders in the day of the hand-shake deal! And, it your wagon fell apart on the trail...you might have been ate by the bears!

Bill

[Glenn Baglo]

And, nobody here ever brags about how they got a fine trailer for only $600, do they?

[CampyTime]

I bought my Scamp, knowing it had been in an accident, because the gentleman is a gentleman. He sent me photos, which he said I deserved to see. I bought the trailer because I loved it, knew it had FG repairs done at Scamp, and the gentleman I purchased from has become a pen pal and friend.

One does have to be careful out there, no doubt, and that goes for any major used purchase. Ask tons of questions and do plenty of research, and then do more. My seller answered every question I could think of, with grace and kindness. He may be a rare breed out there, but I hope there are more folks like him than not. All of the advice here is good, and caveat emptor remains the gold standard of buyer assurance if integrity of seller cannot be fully ascertained.


Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV

[Paul O.]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Of course, I guess that there was also dishonest horse & wagon traders in the day of the hand-shake deal! And, it your wagon fell apart on the trail...you might have been ate by the bears!Bill

They used to look at the horse's teeth, we sniff around for mold and mildew. When we drove 500 miles (one way) to pick up our Scamp the understanding between the seller and me was that I am buying unless I find something unacceptable. I told my wife that if there is any musty smell, we just made a nice two day trip from Vermont to Delaware. Walk the winter beaches, smell the ocean and go home. There were some repairs needed right away and I was able to do them, so the cost was parts and my time, but overall it worked out well.

[PC Steve]

While I am a happy/lucky buyer of a used 2005 17 Casita LD, the longevity of these trailers contribute to these disappointments. A three year old trailer is used, a 10 or 20 year old trailer is a project. Many of our participants are truly talented in a way that lead the more normal of us to "irrational exuberance".

Trying to get started on too slim a budget is asking for trouble. .

[Timber Wolf]

Originally Posted by PC Steve

A three year old trailer is used, a 10 or 20 year old trailer is a project. Trying to get started on too slim a budget is asking for trouble. .

Tiz true. I am closing in on doubling my "investment" in my old Scamp, and that counts NOTHING for my labor. I bought the Scamp from the Owner of a Used Car lot so I knew who I was dealing with.

I was surprised several years earlier in buying a 1984 Chevy S10 Blazer though. Only upon completing the transaction and removing the "For Sale" sign from the grill did I discover that the sign had been taped strategically over a severe crack. I wondered why it had been (duct) taped so securely. The seller sold more than an old Blazer, he sold his soul and very cheaply. I got online and bought not only a brand new grill but both head light rings for chump change, delivered too. Fast forward a few years and I buy an extension cord at the flea market. It was coiled and secured with duct tape. I get home and cut the tape and discover that in addition to holding the coil together it is covering a skinned spot in the insulation. Really? To sum, anybody selling something with duct tape on it hiding something.

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Bill Nolen

Is it just me, or is there a increasing lack of integrity being displayed by private travel trailer owners when they are selling their trailers? And, this includes owners of fiberglass trailers!

Lately, I have noticed a number of new owners of used fiberglass trailers, reporting on this forum/web site, that upon arriving home, they discovered serious hidden defects (like rotting floors) that the owner failed to tell them about, lied to them, or had hidden by paint, etc.

Having spent some time in commission sales, I can understand that a person selling on a commission, and needed to make a sale to pay their rent, might not feel the need to tell all the bad things about a trailer. Maybe in the back of their minds they might be thanking that their company's warranty will take care of any problems. Or maybe they are just dishonest!

However, a private seller not being honest to a buyer is something that I find appalling!. Particularity if the buyer is someone buying a travel trailer for the first time!

Nothing is worse I believe, than a person/couple dreaming of the joy that a travel trailer will bring to their life's...and then discover that they have purchased a trailer, from a that very nice honest looking man, that is a piece of junk thatwill require extensive repairs!

Sigh!!!!

Bill

If you want to know what integrity looks like, take a peek at this listing. This is the textbook example of sellers with integrity, and they have restored and sold about 12 RV's and I recommend them 100%.
1975 Triple E Surfside Fiberglass Travel Trailer 15' Completely Refurbished | eBay

But to answer your question, I find that many sellers are really clueless about what they are selling. Add to that, a lot of buyers "think" that they know what they are doing and are clueless about the actual cost of having repairs done on a "Fixer".

It's not just trailers, it's the same with almost anything you buy as the "Next Owner"... It's still Buyer Beware.

[milliejohn]

I have restored over 50 classic trailers over the past 10 years, I take pictures from the time I find them, thru seeing them leave sold, you can't see everything after it is finished, so I like to show before, during, and after.

I still have to have the new owner sign a bill of sale with as is- where is- no warranty just to cover my hind end.

I can sum up a trailer in my first overall in person look, and price it in my head, if the seller is in line with my figure, I buy it, if it is over priced I look elsewhere.

I buy my pork wrapped in clear plastic, not covered in lipstick, oink!

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by padlin00

So it's okay for a salesman to withhold information but not a private seller?, think I'd call both unscrupulous. Unfortunately there is a reason for the "buyer beware" warning when buying anything used.

Over on one of the Airstream forums you can ask for an experienced current vintage owner to check out a used trailer for you, think there is a list somewhere. As with FG trailers, folks keep them on the road forever. Stuff happen to 20 or 30 year old trailers, it should almost be expected unless you are paying top $.

To answer your question about getting a qualified "inspector", I used to do inspections of Toyota Motorhomes and charged $150+ mileage for inspections. I quit doing it when the rejection/did not buy rate exceeded 80% and customers were complaining that I was finding to much fault with what they wanted to buy. It became a lose-lose situation.

As with Toyota Motorhomes, FGRV buyers seldom realize the depth of possible problems and the real cost of repairs, and those that can do their own repairs, also do their own inspections.

[Donna D.]

I decided years ago that people are generally honest... just misinformed. Do you know how many members here on FiberglassRV don't know about general maintenance they need to do on their all-molded-towable? Don't answer... I can't believe (yeah, I can) about leaking windows... and they're not too terribly worried. REALLY? I mean REALLY? Haven't you read about floor replacements and issues?

I still believe folks sell trailers based on their use (and memories made) rather than what a buyer expects.

EDUCATE YOURSELF, if you're a buyer of an all-molded-towable, don't rely on your emotions or excitement because you've found ONE of your dreams...

[jimcapon]

I currently have a Burro for sale and I've been overwhelmed by the number of contacts. I priced it at a level where I get what I put into it thus far but it is not finished. I have 3 parties that plan to be in town when I arrive home so they can get 1st shot plus several more that will jump into their car if I call them. I don't know who should get 1st shot. And several have said that they've been looking for years for an egg & are willing to buy it site unseen.
My son who is a professional salesman said that I should not have just put an ad on Craigslist as this opens the door for a bunch of buyers to come over(some from 400 miles away). He feels that the best way to market any egg is to have a 3 day inspection where buyers can look at the unit, leave a written offer with a $20 bill. On the sale day(#4) the best offer gets a call & the others get their $20 back. This lottery system allows buyers to bring their own expert to inspect 30 or 40 years old trailers. Next time I'll use that route.

[Uplander]

Jimcapon, You have a real problem...not a bad problem but a real problem.

I have a simple and fair method to solve it.
First, Notify all the people who have an interest I. Your trailer that it will be available for viewing on a day that you have nothing else scheduled.
Second let them know how many people have expressed an interest in buying.
Third, ....let them know you are trying to be fair and will provide (here you pick the number of hours for inspection)
Fourth, ...then after inspection anyone wishing to buy the unit "as-is- no warranty" can make an offer. Terms: CASH at time of sale...prompt removal from your property.

This may result in a bidding war...you will have early bird arrivals trying to "snake the purchase" ahead of the others....stick to your original plan.
Also note not all buyers will agree to the terms you lay out...that will reduce the number of potential buyers....that might be a good thing...not everyone will be happy.

Now what you should have done from the start.....make sale to first person who wants it with cash in hand...take all the calls and provide location...make yourself available for any buyer at his earliest convince. Advertise on both CraigsList and this site to get the best buyers...this site would produce the most qualified and informed buyers but one never knows!

Good luck.....it seems to be a "seller's market".

[Bob Miller]

Gotta say, that three day inspection and bid idea would rule out a lot of FGRV buyers (including Moi) who would lose interest when they were told that it really wasn't "For Sale" that day, but is really just being auctioned.


From a "Professional Salesman's" (?) point of view, maximizing sales price might be a primary motivation, but that sounds more like the tactic that Realtor's use to pump up prices, than a For Sale offering.


If a seller doesn't know what it is worth, it's time to do home homework, set an asking price and go with that. Then, when someone walks in, and offers to pay the asking price up front, it's simply called "Sellers Remorse" for which there is no known cure.


And, in many states, where a deposit is an implication of part ownership on the part of the buyer, the buyers total liability is usually limited to the amount of the deposit should they default. Whereas the seller can be liable for the entire value of the sale for default. In short, $20 deposit offers nothing to the seller and everything to the buyer.


What's being suggested is nothing more than a bidding war/auction and is what the o.p. was complaining about.... If you want to do that, call what it is and put it on eBay.


And that's just my opinion, which I am often told has no intrinsic value whatsoever....LOL

[Uplander]

Having read Bob Miller's latest reply all I can say the seller can try to be fair (see my earlier post) or just sell it to the first person with CASH and the means to remove it at time of sale. He created this situation.....as to the selling price...I hope he posted one and will stand by it.
Any advertised price is subject to change...his asking price does not indicate the final price....it is only an invitation to do business....does not bind seller or buyer to any set dollar amount.....everything is negotiable.....took business law in college....can you tell?

Good Luck!

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by jimcapon

I currently have a Burro for sale and I've been overwhelmed by the number of contacts. I priced it at a level where I get what I put into it thus far but it is not finished. I have 3 parties that plan to be in town when I arrive home so they can get 1st shot plus several more that will jump into their car if I call them. I don't know who should get 1st shot. And several have said that they've been looking for years for an egg & are willing to buy it site unseen.
My son who is a professional salesman said that I should not have just put an ad on Craigslist as this opens the door for a bunch of buyers to come over(some from 400 miles away). He feels that the best way to market any egg is to have a 3 day inspection where buyers can look at the unit, leave a written offer with a $20 bill. On the sale day(#4) the best offer gets a call & the others get their $20 back. This lottery system allows buyers to bring their own expert to inspect 30 or 40 years old trailers. Next time I'll use that route.

Why not use eBay? With your system, what if the high bidder backs out? Do they get their $20 back? Do you need a contract to make sure they understand the rules? Am I over-thinking this?

As far as what to do in your current situation, integrity simply requires that you answer any questions buyers ask truthfully and keep any verbal commitments you make. That includes selling at the advertised price and not looking to start a bidding war after the fact.

It seems to me you have two options. One is to offer the trailer to each contact in the order they called, regardless of distance. If you go that route, you'll have to give each buyer a reasonable time to complete the sale, and the whole thing could drag on a while. The other is to simply decide that first $$ takes it. Whatever you decide, communicate the rules clearly to potential buyers.

In the midst of all this you have to protect yourself as well. Sellers are not the only ones who sometimes lack integrity!

[Bill Nolen]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Why not use eBay?.......It seems to me you have two options. One is to offer the trailer to each contact in the order they called, regardless of distance. If you go that route, you'll have to give each buyer a reasonable time to complete the sale, and the whole thing could drag on a while. The other is to simply decide that first $$ takes it. Whatever you decide, communicate the rules clearly to potential buyers.

In the midst of all this you have to protect yourself as well. Sellers are not the only ones who sometimes lack integrity!

I, in my youth, was quite trusting, and believed what people told me.

Yeah, hard to believe, isn't it?

However, i quickly learned that people would call and tell me that the object I had for sale was just what they wanted, and would I hold it for XXXX time for them to drive XXXX miles to my home. And, then they would never show up, or call!

While I have still have enough trusting nature to make a exception, 90 % of the items I sell today, are sold to the first person who arrives with cash in hand! No MO's, certified checks, etc. CASH ONLY!

I have held a large ticket item, like a sailboat, for a out-of-town buyer, if he wires me the full price. I've never had a person want their money back, and to this day several buyers are good email friends.

Bill

[Franswa]

when I was shopping I saw a trailer (funfinder) on a dealer website that I thought would work.....As it was three hours away, I called and made arrangements for at least a hold for that time (didn't want to drive all the way there to find it gone)...the guy agreed and said it was fine as the trailer was in a back lot and he would have to pull it it to show anyway.....

got there, looked the trailer over...found evidence of a small leak by a window....otherwise it looked good.....after about half an hour a couple drove up and said to the guy "Hi Jim, is this the trailer you were talking about?" and started looking it over.......yeah right, what a coincidence !!!!

Right quick I thanked "Jim"....said I'd have to sleep on it and drove away.....never phoned him back....that was so transparent.....didn't care what condition the trailer was in at that point I just decided I didn't want to hand my money over to somebody that would do something like that

[Bob Miller]

Originally Posted by Uplander

Having read Bob Miller's latest reply all I can say the seller can try to be fair (see my earlier post) or just sell it to the first person with CASH and the means to remove it at time of sale. He created this situation.....as to the selling price...I hope he posted one and will stand by it.
Any advertised price is subject to change...his asking price does not indicate the final price....it is only an invitation to do business....does not bind seller or buyer to any set dollar amount.....everything is negotiable.....took business law in college....can you tell?

Good Luck!

You must not have taken that law course in California. An advertised price is an invitation to sell for that price, holding out for a higher price is called "Bait and Switch" and, while an RV buyer may not want to press the issue, there is plenty of example of case law that would support the buyer if they so desired.

This may have started in the 60's when a SoCal car dealer, dressed in a Gorilla suit on TV, offered to sell a new vehicle for XXX Bananas. As the fruit was less than $1 each a smart buyer proffered the bananas and took the dealer to court (and won) over the issue.

To stay on the topic, I would call a seller that refused to sell for the advertised price a sleazy seller.....


Added Note: I was just advised by p.m. that refusing to sell for the advertised price in some states could be called fraudulent advertising and, at a certain $$$ level, could be seen as a felony..... WOW Hoodathunkit?

[The Minimalist]

Here is the link to the FGRV Document Center Buyers Checklist:
http: //www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=72
Take a copy of it with you when you go look. If you have doubts or lack of experience with some items, get someone who knows go look with you.

There is also one there specific to Bolers.

We live in a world that, alas, has some unscrupulous people. Then again, there are a lot of folks out there that just don't know.

Please take this as an observation, not a criticism, but there are questions asked here everyday by long time trailer owners that would indicate that they are still in learning mode (I don't think that ever ends), and may not know everything about their trailer. Take, for example, the recent question on shower use. I couldn't help but notice how many folks had never used the shower in their trailer. So, if they were asked, 'Does the shower work?', what would they answer.

A friend, who has been pulling a large 5th wheeler for several years was discussing trailer brakes with my brother. He said he knew how to adjust the brakes and so forth. In the middle of the conversation he asked, 'What's the lever across the top of the controller for?' In a sell situation, if he were asked how the brakes worked how would he answer.

My brother just bought a brand new 5th wheel at a dealer. He spent 6 hours in, over and under the trailer before he bought it. He found a number of defects that were noted by the dealer, in writing, for correction before delivery.

We have become accustomed to new stuff being warrantied. And then we buy an extended warranty.

Caveat emptor................especially on used anything.

Defects found during an inspection are bargaining chips and you are already learning about what may be your new trailer....maybe even more that the current owner.

Best of luck in the search.