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Old 04-10-2013, 09:33 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by GMike A View Post
Fred I am going to throw this out for discussion. Is there any merit to putting another column next to the "total" column and put in Manufacturer's recommended spec? I'm not quite sure if there is value but think we could graph variations and percentages. See whats above and or below the spec. Perhaps Rabbit could come up with some mathematical interpretations of the data.
This reminds me of here at work. People come up with customized charts all the time that they want me to populate for something nearly only they are interested in. What I do is provide them data on my parts that allows them to populate their own chart with my data while adding their own interests. I think Frederick has done quite enough I just collecting the data.

Having gone through the weighing process once at a big rally I understand how much work is involved. Plus I know Frederick is taking pains to protect privacy and tow vehicle data (in allowing one to pair vehicles to trailer) might exceed the comfort level. Frankly, I came away slightly disgusted at that time what with some objecting to the modest fee the RVSEF people were asking but the same people were hanging around trying to see over the shoulder of similar vehicles.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:34 AM   #222
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Mike the only specs other than what Brian indicated - axle max weight etc that manufactures normally supply are the trailers dry weight spec. There are so many variables to that as to what is and isn't included that its value IMHO would be very limited.

One of the great things about Fredericks list is the weights are what they are in the real world. If the dry weight specs where added it would be human nature for people wanting/wishing their trailers to weigh less in order to pull it within the specs of X type vehicle is that some might suggest that the trailers on the list are stuffed full of stuff they would never carry. That happens now as it is. I fear that will happen even more than it does now if the dry specs were included on the list.

An example would be my own trailer which appears on the list twice and has been weighed many other times as well and each time comes in give or take within 40 lbs of whats listed. Yet time and time again I see people with the same trailer claim that their trailers weigh less than mine loaded. Some of those trailers I am aware have other options, more storage and pull with water in their tanks so I am left scratching my head as to how those trailers could possible weigh less than mine. Due to this I am personally glad that Frederick has remained fairly diligent in regards to under what conditions that a trailer weight has been added to the list or not added, when the trailer wasn't one he weighed himself.

IMHO the few numbers added to the list as it stands the better. Would hate to take away from the great value of Frederick's list by add another layer of variable numbers for people to make inaccurate assumptions on.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:04 AM   #223
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I understand everyones comments above thats why I asked if there were any value to the additional data. In retrospect I have my Egg specs and I can compare it to others or to my own measurements.
Thanks for the input and will consider "case closed"
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:06 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Steve L. View Post
Having gone through the weighing process once at a big rally I understand how much work is involved. Plus I know Frederick is taking pains to protect privacy and tow vehicle data (in allowing one to pair vehicles to trailer) might exceed the comfort level. Frankly, I came away slightly disgusted at that time what with some objecting to the modest fee the RVSEF people were asking but the same people were hanging around trying to see over the shoulder of similar vehicles.
not to mention that in the two years that I had mine weighed at the rally there were a great many trailers that didn't go through the weigh in on arrival even though I dont recall any fee being charged. One can only speculate as to why some bypassed the weigh in but I followed for the last few miles to one of the rallies one such trailer/tug combo. At the time I wasn't at all surprised when they opted not to have it weighed.

Including the tow vehicle info may not provide the type of info that Frederick is attempting to provide. Including the tow vehicle info can be very misleading. Just because someone is pulling with a certain vehicle does not mean the person doing the driving would recommend it to others to pull the same trailer. An example would be that I have pulled a 16' with my own tug many years and miles without problems and although the trailer is less than the tug manufacturer's tow specs I personally would not recommend the same tug and trailer combo if someone was starting out from scratch and they had the option of buying a different tug. Another party camped next to me at the last meet indicated that they were looking to upgrade their tug as they were not at all happy with the ability of their tug to handle their 13' trailer - they have had experience pulling with other tugs and had decided to use the tug in question because a number of others here said it was a good tug for that trailer combo.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:32 AM   #225
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I know when I was wondering what I could tow with my vehicle the real weights thread here was the most helpful resource I could find anywhere (along with my vehicle's owner's manual).

Perhaps we need a campaign to get everyone on this forum to weigh their trailers. With over 1500 CAT scales in the US and Canada there isn't much excuse not to.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:55 PM   #226
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Perhaps we need a campaign to get everyone on this forum to weigh their trailers.
This was my whole point in creating this thread. I never wanted this to devolve into a discussion about the appropriateness of selection of the tow vehicle. I did not want to discourage people from using my service by publishing what could be viewed as incriminating information. I hoped people would be inspired to do their own weigh-ins. That is why I included data volunteered by those who had done so. I am truly sorry I got caught up in discussing the accurateness of of the reported data, and I apologize if I disparaged anyone's efforts. While I have the power as a moderator to make those posts disappear, I will leave them in place to remind me to behave better in future.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:21 PM   #227
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We love you Scaleman You've provided information not found ANYWHERE ELSE on the WWW, targeting owners who need the info to be safe.

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Old 04-11-2013, 07:53 PM   #228
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Heck dont be sorry this has been great and it creates dialogues and motivation to expand your thinking. I think it was awesome and appreciated it.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:00 PM   #229
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I couldn't care less about the tugs since there's too big a variety to be meaningful.

However...

I continue to hope that eventually model year of the weighed trailer will be included in the data. Back in the beginning, no one had black/grey tanks, microwave ovens, crockpots, air conditioners, generators, solar panels, and/or all the other amenities deemed so important by more recent users.

All that frou-frou adds up to significant poundage ...

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Old 04-11-2013, 09:21 PM   #230
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We love you Scaleman You've provided information not found ANYWHERE ELSE on the WWW, targeting owners who need the info to be safe.

bang on Donna!
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:46 AM   #231
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Mine will be weighed when it's done (empty first), I think it will be one of the heavier 19' scamps.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:10 AM   #232
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Trailer Weights in the Real World

I know its been mentioned before in other threads but this will be on my bucket list when I'm ready to roll. After reading this thread I am understanding more of the importance of overall balance and treatment of the car/camper as a system. That tongue weight could always be a variable factor. IMO
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:51 PM   #233
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With Frederick's permission, I have posted a copy of the "Trailer Weights in the Real World" spreadsheet in .xls format for those that want to sort it for their own use. Clicking on the link will download a copy (currently a 33KB file). If additions are added to this thread, or when Frederick weighs more trailers, I'll update the spreadsheet.

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Old 04-23-2013, 05:53 PM   #234
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Is anybody aware of compiled real-world weights for dry, unloaded trailers?

These loaded weights make me think that Scamp may underreport their weights because they seem to consistently weigh more than comparable Casitas even though Casitas are supposed to be at least 200 pounds heavier.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:47 PM   #235
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Is anybody aware of compiled real-world weights for dry, unloaded trailers?
I am not aware of such a compilation, and would not expect one. Frederick and his helpers have gone to significant effort to take advantage of the availability of trailers in camping condition as they arrive at rallies; I am not aware of a similar opportunity for empty trailers, as people don't generally make a practice of pulling them to events in this state.

Some travel trailer manufacturers are proud of their actual weight data, resulting from weighing each unit as it leaves the factory, complete with all factory-installed equipment and as actually constructed. I am not aware of any of the moulded fiberglass travel trailer manufacturers following this practice, although it would be interesting to see the data if any of them have been doing this.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:49 PM   #236
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My math is rusty but it seems to me the error introduced by a few inch side-to-side difference is minimal. Assuming 4" of height difference and a 6' axle gives an angle of about 3 degrees. The sin function indicates that at 3 degrees, the weight differential would be 0.9986, in other words at most 1.4% error. Somebody ought to check me though, I could easily have messed up! Since the weighing method was pretty similar for all trailers, the error would be consistent and can be ignored I think.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:51 PM   #237
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Sorry, I mispalced this reply, it was intended to be directed at an earlier discussion of the errors introduced by having only one wheel on a scale.

On the other post, thanks Brian P. One would need a lot of weights of loaded trailers to get some reasonable statistics as to which trailers are really lighter. It just appears from those I see posted that in general Casitas are the same or lighter weight than similar Scamps and that is counter to Scamps weight claims. Maybe Casitas are more accurate?
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:52 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by semievolved View Post
These loaded weights make me think that Scamp may underreport their weights because they seem to consistently weigh more than comparable Casitas even though Casitas are supposed to be at least 200 pounds heavier.
Using Jon's handy Excel download and Excel's Pivot Table feature, I find:
Casita 13' averages (of 3): 2260 lb axle + 260 lb tongue = 2520 lb total
Scamp 13' averages (of 3): 1540 lb axle + 223 lb tongue = 1763 lb total

Casita 16' averages (of 3): 2460 lb axle + 260 lb tongue = 2700 lb total (of 3)
Scamp 16' averages (of 5): 2292 lb axle + 280 lb tongue = 2572 lb total
These sample sizes are so small that further distinguishing between sub-models (by floorplan and equipment) becomes an exercise of individual trailer comparison. On this basis, I don't see a trend for Scamps to be heavier.

There is no Scamp model which is directly comparable to the very numerous Casita 17' (almost a third of all weighings are of Casita 17's), and no Casita model which is directly comparable to a Scamp 19'.


As Frederick described in post #9 of this thread, the trailer are weighed with any weight distributing hitch (WDH) system disabled as the rig arrives at the campground, then the tongue weight is separately measured at the campsite. This is only way to get a trailer weight, separate from the tow vehicle weight, without requiring an additional weighing of the tow vehicle while it is still loaded just as it was on arrival.

Since some people will not run their rig over the scale - or move it at all - without the WDH in use, I suspect that the heaviest Casitas (especially those tongue-heavy 17' units) skip the weigh-in, biasing the results. This is only an educated guess; I have no specific evidence that this is happening... but if it is, it would lead to a lower average reported weight for the trailer models with the highest tongue weight, and a lower average reported tongue weight. This bias - if it exists - would not apply to fifth-wheel or Scamp 19' models, which do not use WDH systems despite high hitch weight.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:05 PM   #239
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yup, I agree. I just found the XL spreadsheet and was able to look more closely and my initial conclusion doesn't seem justified. However, Casita weights reported on their website are about 200 pounds heavier than similar bare-bones Scamps and if anything the average Casita should be heavier than the average Scamp. It's impossible with all the individual uncertainties and variables, there are too few values to make any meaningful conclusions.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:10 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by semievolved View Post
... It's impossible with all the individual uncertainties and variables, there are too few values to make any meaningful conclusions.
I agree. This data is not about making rigorous statistical conclusions, it is about educating trailer owners to the reality that when they pull their egg down the road, it is going to weigh significantly more than the number in the brochure or specs webpage... and to give them a rough idea of what the weight might be.
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