Trailer Weights in the Real World

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Carol H

But it would be *really* nice as has already be suggested that the discussion as to details of the tows themselves and what the manufactures towing specs really mean was to take place on another thread. Just saying.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

um... Model years of TVs were included. I went back and edited the model years to be 4 digits instead of the original 2 digits.

I was thinking as much of the trailer years- rigs of the same Brand/size have gained weight over the years at nearly the same rate that Americans have!

Take Casitas, for example:

According to NADA, a 1988 16 footer's curb weight is 1500 pounds.
(1988 Casita Price, 1988 Casita Values & 1988 Casita Specs | NADAguides)
But the lightest 2012 16 footer weighs almost 500 pounds more!
(2012 Casita Price, 2012 Casita Values & 2012 Casita Specs | NADAguides)

And there's almost exactly the same 500 pound difference when it comes to the 13 footers of those same model years.

Just something for folks to keep in mind when planning/buying, I think.

Francesca

[David Tilston]

I think that in the past, trailer manufactures intentionally underestimated the weight of their trailers. Perhaps they are a bit more reluctant to do that now.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by David Tilston

I think that in the past, trailer manufactures intentionally underestimated the weight of their trailers. Perhaps they are a bit more reluctant to do that now.

I couldn't disagree more- I think that sort of thing is much more common now. It's become such a problem industry-wide that new rules were passed in the last year or so that every new trailer must be weighed at the factory and be delivered to its end user with a sticker stating that number.

I think that the "obesity epidemic" in newer fiberglass trailers is real. I'm not familiar with enough interiors to posit a reason, but I will say that the few "new" FG trailers I've been inside of had a lot more wood than fiberglass showing on the inside...

Francesca

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Andy B

I weighed my 1980 Burro 13 when I brought it home. There was no battery and the propane tank was half full. There was no camping gear in the trailer, all the cabinet doors, cubby covers, cushions, sink, ice box, and cook top were installed. There is no water tank, water pump. or furnace and no spare tire or leveling jacks.

I jacked up 1 side, put two bathroom scales with a short piece of 2x8 bridging the scales, under the tire, lowered the jack and added the weights from both scales together. I then measured the other side the same way and measured the tongue weight using only 1 scale.

The weights were:
Door side 398 lbs
Street side 320 lbs
Hitch 90 lbs

Total weight 808 lbs

When I removed the body to replace the floor, I weighed the frame including the axle, but no wheels and it weighed 235 lbs.

After review of this explanation, I believe I found the flaw in this result that I failed to see before. Because he weighed one tire at a time without noting whether the trailer remained level (correct) or was tilted due to the height of the scales under just one tire (incorrect) I must believe his result to be invalid.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

After review of this explanation, I believe I found the flaw in this result that I failed to see before. Because he weighed one tire at a time without noting whether the trailer remained level (correct) or was tilted due to the height of the scales under just one tire (incorrect) I must believe his result to be invalid.

I'm toying with a different method of weighing my trailer, and this is something I intend to compensate for.

As I've never seen the Sherline you yourself use, I wondered whether it weighs one wheel at a time, too. If so, does it raise that side, and how do you compensate for any resulting weight shift to the other side?

Thanks!

Francesca

[rabbit]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I think that the "obesity epidemic" in newer fiberglass trailers is real. I'm not familiar with enough interiors to posit a reason, but I will say that the few "new" FG trailers I've been inside of had a lot more wood than fiberglass showing on the inside...

Francesca

I also have not crawled about in all models of all brands but I do notice the heavy use of dimensional lumber framing and "engineered" wood products in interior fitting and furnishing of two marques (one well-establilshed, one a recent arrival on the scene). I'd say you have suggested, if not posited, a reason for higher weights. Care to name a "woody" glass trailer brand or particular model thereof? If you will, I will.

Frederick would know more of this, but I thought the use of the Sherline was confined to tongue weight. The piston and cup appears to be designed to slip into the coupler hood or hold the hollow foot of a tongue jack. I think Frederick must have a potable platform scale also.

jack

[gmcgilli66]

Does anyone have a weight for a 19.5 tandem axle Bigfoot (gaucho)? I can weigh it in the spring, but right now it's winterized in the back yard.
Thanks,
George

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by rabbit

I also have not crawled about in all models of all brands but I do notice the heavy use of dimensional lumber framing and "engineered" wood products in interior fitting and furnishing of two marques (one well-establilshed, one a recent arrival on the scene). I'd say you have suggested, if not posited, a reason for higher weights. Care to name a "woody" glass trailer brand or particular model thereof? If you will, I will.

Here's one-
The frame/shell (except cosmetics of door) are near- duplicates of the early Trillium 4500, but unlike the original all interior fixtures are wood.

Original curb weight about 1400 pounds, present curb weight between 1600-1750 pounds .

There may be some other small differences between the Escape 15's shell and the early Trillium it's based on...I believe Escape has beefed up the roof some to carry the A/C; on the other hand, there's reinforcing around the window cutouts on the older models which doesn't seem to be the case in the units in this Escape production line video:

Escape Travel Trailer Assembly line - YouTube

[rabbit]

This in what I had to say about the new Escape 21 on 27 July this year:

"It's not just longer; it's heavier. And over on the ROTI site, one respondent on the review page says he wonders why Escape can't produce a fiberglass interior liner and avoid the swelling and warping of wood and fiberbd. That's an easy one! The "clean room" look can't compete with a house beautiful on wheels. Or can it? Thousands of starkly utilitarian cookiecutter crash pads on one hand vs. a blingy subcompact park model which won't remind you of a cattle car. Which would I choose? I'd like to have the bucks to give me a choice. Maybe they're attempting to fill the shoes of really Bigfeet."

Another "elephant in the room" that won't be addressed or admitted to exist north of 44-40. From an examination of interior pix, I have a similar hunch about the new kid on the block Lil Snoozy. Incidentally, Frederick's posts #9, 10 this thread describe his ramp platforms for axle weight.

jack

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

As I've never seen the Sherline you yourself use, I wondered whether it weighs one wheel at a time, too.

If you haven't done so recently, take a look at post #9 on page 1 by clicking the arrow in the quote below.

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

I'm so glad you asked!

For axle weights I use 2 scales at a time, one on each side maintaining side-to-side level. For double axles I use wood blocks to keep all wheels supported and level while weighing one axle at a time. I also maintain level when separately weighing the tongue at the coupler, not the tongue jack.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

If you haven't done so recently, take a look at post #9 on page 1 by clicking the arrow in the quote below.

For axle weights I use 2 scales at a time, one on each side maintaining side-to-side level. For double axles I use wood blocks to keep all wheels supported and level while weighing one axle at a time. I also maintain level when separately weighing the tongue at the coupler, not the tongue jack.

I get it- two of these under the trailer tires, right?



It sounds like, at least at rallies, the trailer's weighed while still hitched to the tug....It seems to me that this may result in the same problem as that you identify with the burro weight above, only front-to-back. How is front-to-back leveling achieved so as to avoid transferring weight to the coupler when raising the wheels on the scales? Or is there some mathematical way of adjusting that number?

Thanks!

Francesca

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

How is front-to-back leveling achieved so as to avoid transferring weight to the coupler when raising the wheels on the scales?

Parking lots are not perfectly level for drainage. I chose a location and orientation on that lot to get an uphill slope that was enough to compensate for the front-to-back height difference.

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

Parking lots are not perfectly level for drainage. I chose a location and orientation on that lot to get an uphill slope that was enough to compensate for the front-to-back height difference.

I'm trying to visualize that...how could any piece of terrain do that and give consistent results given the variety of tugs/tows, not to mention whether or not they're towing their trailers level to begin with?

Francesca

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

I'm trying to visualize that...how could any piece of terrain do that and give consistent results given the variety of tugs/tows, not to mention whether or not they're towing their trailers level to begin with?

Francesca

Perfection is the enemy of adequacy.
I was not striving for perfection. I was only aiming for awareness. What do you want for free?

[Francesca Knowles]

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

Perfection is the enemy of adequacy.
I was not striving for perfection. I was only aiming for awareness.

You're making me crazy, Frederick.

That's a lovely philosophical statement, and sometime I'd really enjoy getting together with you and my many sophist friends over a bottle of Chianti and a couple of joints to discuss it at length...

Meanwhile, back on Planet Earth, where one must deal with the laws of physics when making statements like "Trailer Weights in The Real World'":

How am I to reconcile that philosophy with the sterner scientific one expressed below?

Originally Posted by Frederick L. Simson

After review of this explanation, I believe I found the flaw in this result that I failed to see before. Because he weighed one tire at a time without noting whether the trailer remained level (correct) or was tilted due to the height of the scales under just one tire (incorrect) I must believe his result to be invalid.

Francesca

[David Tilston]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

That's a lovely philosophical statement, and sometime I'd really enjoy getting together with you and my many sophist friends over a bottle of Chianti and a couple of joints to discuss it at length...

Things have changed recently in Washington.

I think it is important to set a standard, which Frederick has done, and keep it consistant. The results may not be exact, but what is? I would say that keeping the trailer level, plus or minus less then a degree, should be accurate enough.

Frederick, what do you guess the margin of error is?

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

How am I to reconcile that philosophy with the sterner scientific one expressed below?



Francesca

I suggest you take your trailer to a local truck stop and weigh it on a certified scale. I don't remember if state weigh stations are open to public when not in use by the state in Washington, they are in Oregon and free when available.

[rabbit]

Accuracy is how close you can get to the bullseye. Often a matter of chance. Precision is shooting all your arrows to the same location however far from the mark. Always a measure of, yep, David nailed it, consistent (not perfect) technique.

jack

[Frederick L. Simson]

Originally Posted by Francesca Knowles

You're making me crazy, Frederick.

And you've returned the favor. I think we're even.