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Old 08-05-2019, 09:45 PM   #21
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Name: Wil
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Originally Posted by TucsonAZ View Post
I will just say this with a fair knowledge base of what I'm saying. You are generally far better off using AC items that are energy star compliant than DC items. The gains you will get and the cost savings will allow for a nice sine way inverter with minimal efficiency losses.


My 5cuft chest freezer that I modified to a fridge for example only used 12 watts per hour even sitting outside in the Arizona sun.



I also have a modified 5,000 BTU AC unit, it has a hard start cap in it, a relay and a time delay that spools up the fan to high before kicking in the compressor so there isn't a motor and compressor load at the same time which drastically reduces start up current. With this, I pull less than 300 watts per hour (360 when running) and you calculate run times from this.



With 1,340 flat mounted watts of solar and a 6,000 watt battery bank I could sleep in 4-6 extra hours running AC, I could run the toaster oven for an hour, the microwave and so on.


I wouldn't mess with most of the gimmicks floating around. Spend the money you save on a better solar set up.



Currently in AZ (ideal sun ideal time of year, less than Ideally mounted panels, less than ideally efficient grid tie inverters) in 14 days I've collected 76kwh of solar from 1,220 watts of panels which works out to about 5,400 watts per day in a fairly optimal situation. Again, just another real world statistic to help you make informed sizing choices.



Lastly, the first thing I would do on ANY RV I ever bought would be converting to 24V for a tone of reasons. The water pump and converter/charger will be the two biggest issues but both can be had for $200ish. I only run 24V systems and the difference is noticeable!

FYI there is no such electrical unit as "watts per hour" or "watts per day." Or watts per any time period for that matter. The term "watt" has the time period built in - one joule per second. It is a unit of power. Like horse power. There is no "horse power per hour" unit of measure.


Electrical quantities are measured in watts X time; i.e. watt-hours (watts X hours)or Kwh (Kilowatt hours - 1000watts X hours).


What were you trying to say?
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:55 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mitzi Agnew-Giles View Post
Looks like a winner to me.

Explain to me how a compact, low power air conditioner is apparently capable of cooling the entire great outdoors?
If this ad doesn't trigger skepticism I don't know what will.
Perhaps we can use it to combat global warming.
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:47 PM   #23
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Name: Adam
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Originally Posted by wilyoung View Post
FYI there is no such electrical unit as "watts per hour" or "watts per day." Or watts per any time period for that matter. The term "watt" has the time period built in - one joule per second. It is a unit of power. Like horse power. There is no "horse power per hour" unit of measure.


Electrical quantities are measured in watts X time; i.e. watt-hours (watts X hours)or Kwh (Kilowatt hours - 1000watts X hours).


What were you trying to say?

So there is "energy" and there is "power". They aren't the same, power is measured in watts and energy in watts and time. So to simplify things I broke it down in advance so the reader wouldn't have to.

In the case of the freezer conversion I state it used 12 watts per hour versus 12 watt hours for syntax. Additionally, because the unit actually used 300+ watts (power) when it cycled but only 12 watt hours (energy) I chose to give the information in a complete form so the reader didn't have to factor in cycle rates and do the mathematics to figure out the energy used versus power consumption.

Anyway, none of this is really important but in solar applications it's crucial as so many things (fridge, heater, ac, temp controlled fans) cycle versus always running at a constant "power" which would be simply expressed in watts. Watts would be what you wanted if you needed to know the load though for sizing an inverter or something.

Also, if you notice, I gave the watts of my battery bank as a measure of "power", I could have given the amp hours and voltage but again, I took an Occum's razor approach to things for syntax but I don't think you were challenging how I expressed that anyway.

Now is where you tell me I spelled "Occum" wrong ( :
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:53 AM   #24
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Watt - Unit of power
Watt hour - power used in one hour
Watt day - power used in one day.
Amp - unit of current 6.23 X 10 ^23 coulombs
Amp hour - number of amps in one hour - does not specify power as the voltage is not specified Not a measure of POWER unless voltage is specified. In DC and amp hour is defined. In AC you must also know the power factor to know the power.
Power Factor - difference in Amp Hours and Watts. Necessary to understand the losses in AC power.
Watts per fortnight would also be a legitimate measure of the power consumed over a period of time
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:16 AM   #25
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But back to the topic of the thread... how many joule fortnights does the cooler use?
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:46 AM   #26
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But back to the topic of the thread... how many joule fortnights does the cooler use?


Or how many joule fortnights does it take to cool down the great outdoors with that little unit?
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:08 AM   #27
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Tucson, keenly interested in the details of your 5000btu ac mods. Presume this is a window unit? Thanks
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:39 AM   #28
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40į difference

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Originally Posted by Fred762 View Post
Why not one of these https://www.amazon.com/Igloo-40358-P.../dp/B008AQK1NC

and a 12v powered fan??
Those types of cooler at best. Can only do a 40į difference from current temp.

On my Fg-16 I opted for the Coleman Mach 8 low profile. I've tested it and it draws less than 1200 watts on start up, so. 2000 watt inverter generator should work fine.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:10 AM   #29
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This “miracle” might work for a few hours for this —>

But, you’d have to convert to 24v and leave the TV off.

Good luck figuring out the best “deal”.

It would never air condition my 21’ R Pod... I doubt I’d even notice it running.

I run a 13.5k BTU roof AC off a Honda eu2000i generator, using an EasyStart and turning the R Pod’s battery off. Works fine.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:00 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mitzi Agnew-Giles View Post
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/z...E#/updates/all
Looks like a good one to me. Can't use swamp coolers in Florida's humid environment. The compressor has been miniaturized to the size of a Coke can.
Its 24 volts 210 watts. Run time on rechargeable battery pack is 4-5 hours.

Looks like a winner to me.
It would be a winner....if it actually existed but it does not yet exist. No one knows for sure if it ever will become a reality, not even the person who is working on inventing it knows that.
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:20 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo View Post
Explain to me how a compact, low power air conditioner is apparently capable of cooling the entire great outdoors?
If this ad doesn't trigger skepticism I don't know what will.
Perhaps we can use it to combat global warming.
I'm thinking there's an air duct (that we can't see) blowing cold air up the fisherman's pant leg.

Buying from crowfunders is not a purchase or an investment. It's speculation, ie: gambling. I've gambled on crowfunding three times. I've only been burned twice, which I think is an outstanding record of success! (The one that did deliver did so six months late.)



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Old 08-10-2019, 01:37 PM   #32
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:45 PM   #33
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2360 BTU requires 690 watts at 100% efficiency let’s say that unit is 75% efficient .That 2360 would require about 900 W not the 210 they’re quoting. Something is fishy
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Old 08-10-2019, 05:21 PM   #34
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Watt - Unit of power

Power Factor - difference in Amp Hours and Watts. Necessary to understand the losses in AC power.
INCORRECT! VOLT Amp, not Amp HOUR! Time has no place units of power measurement. The difference in Volt-Amps and Watts in AC systems is the power factor caused by inductive and capacitive (complex) losses.
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Old 08-10-2019, 05:35 PM   #35
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2360 BTUís is a joke. My Casita has a 10,000 BTU A/C window unit under the front closet (not the best place, but thatís where the factory put it) and it Is useless in our 100+ degree Nevada heat! I donít think it would do any better in FL. However, here in the Southwest, it IS dry enough to use a swamp (evaporative) cooler! The following pic is my 5 gallon bucket that runs on 12 volts and actually works! No it will not cool the whole trailer, but I took a nap under it last weekend in 90 degree outside temp. in CA last weekend and was comfortable. I am currently working on a version with 2X the capacity.
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:15 PM   #36
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According to the site we will know more about the item when they start delivering in November. ;-)
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:43 PM   #37
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According to the site we will know more about the item when they start delivering in November. ;-)
Please keep us posted. Domestic and others are now making small DC refrigerators/freezers that are far more efficient than thermoelectric or Peltier coolers. This is very similar technology to that required for an AC unit.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:32 PM   #38
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Name: Wil
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Watt - Unit of power
Watt hour - power used in one hour
Watt day - power used in one day.
Amp - unit of current 6.23 X 10 ^23 coulombs
Amp hour - number of amps in one hour - does not specify power as the voltage is not specified Not a measure of POWER unless voltage is specified. In DC and amp hour is defined. In AC you must also know the power factor to know the power.
Power Factor - difference in Amp Hours and Watts. Necessary to understand the losses in AC power.
Watts per fortnight would also be a legitimate measure of the power consumed over a period of time




Watt-hour is energy not power. It is Watts X hours. Normally measured in kilowatt-hours kWh - 1000 Watt-hours.



Amp (current) is measured in Coulombs per time. One Amp (Ampere) is one Coulomb per second. A Coulomb is 6.238792 X 10^18 electron charges. a quantity of electrical charge.


Amp-hour is Amps X hours. Since Amps is Coulombs per time, Amp-hours is (Coulombs per time) X time. One Amp-hour is 3600 Coulombs, (1 Coulomb per second) X 3600 seconds. A quantity with no time value.


"Amp-hour - Number of Amps IN one hour" makes no sense.


Power factor is thrown in here only as a confusion factor. It is significant in AC power calculations but has nothing to do with whether "Watts per time" is a ligitimate electrical unit of measure.


"Watts per time" (e.g. Watts per hour) is Watts divided by time. Watt-time (e.g. Watt-hours) is Watts multiplied by time. The former is meaningless. The latter is a calculation indicating the total energy used. There would, of course, be a huge difference in the two.


For further info see:

https://www.rapidtables.com/electric...ric_units.html
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:33 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by wilyoung View Post
[QUOTE Watt - Unit of power

Power factor is thrown in here only as a confusion factor. It is significant in AC power calculations but has nothing to do with whether "Watts per time" is a ligitimate electrical unit of measure.

"Watts per time" (e.g. Watts per hour) is Watts divided by time. Watt-time (e.g. Watt-hours) is Watts multiplied by time. The former is meaningless. The latter is a calculation indicating the total energy used. There would, of course, be a huge difference in the two.

For further info see:

https://www.rapidtables.com/electric...ric_units.html

1) I commented on the power factor definition as the units “Amp-hour” were incorrect and should be “Volt-Amps”, the product of Volts and Amps.

2) There is no such thing as “Watts per time”. Watt, a unit of power and an instantaneous quantity, is energy per unit time, or 1 Joules / second = 1 Watt. Likewise: 1 Watt-second = 1 Joule. Watt per second implies division (Watts/sec.) and is not the same as Watts X sec. The power company bills you in kWh (kiloWatt-hours) for energy you consume. Nowhere in your referenced article is the term “Watts per second” used.


My qualifications? I have a BSEE, 35 years experience in industrial electrical/electronic design not counting 6 year operating a nuclear reactor on a submarine.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:35 AM   #40
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Name: JD
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Please let's not argue about semantics especially when almost everyone knows what is meant.
Amp hours are often use with batteries and the whole time you are drawing power the voltage is dropping so the energy (if you like) is changing the entire time.
Basically this is arguing for the sake of the argument.
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