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Old 09-22-2015, 07:37 AM   #61
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Things get worse for VW. Now there's news that the shifty software affects 11 million cars.

http://www.wired.com/2015/09/vw-emissions-deception-11-million-cars/

From what I can gather, diesel engine vehicles in Colorado are not tested by the regular system. Instead, there are private garages that do the testing and repair. Judging from the number of big pickup trucks running around belching clouds of black smoke, this might be the time for the state to take a look at what's going on with some of those mechanics.
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Old 09-22-2015, 08:00 AM   #62
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I stated nor implied absolutely nothing regarding a conspiracy, just facts.

I look forward to hearing your explanation of how the reading can be 40 times the limit and still pass.
I got the same impression from your post as Glenn Baglo.
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:05 AM   #63
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suggestion

Buy as much VW stock as you can now. The Germans have always been too smart for their britches, I can say that as I have German heritage. They make an incredible product, when this is over they still will.
John
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:21 AM   #64
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Buy as much VW stock as you can now. The Germans have always been too smart for their britches, I can say that as I have German heritage. They make an incredible product, when this is over they still will.
John
Maybe wait till it bottoms out first. This is not over.
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Old 09-22-2015, 09:45 AM   #65
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Actually all vehicles that originally had to meet any Federal Emissions stands are still "Subject" to emissions inspection, regardless of age. States can make their on decisions as to inspect or not.


Here in CA, where we respect air quality, air cooled Beetles, with modified engines, can and do get tagged for emissions violations. For that reason the "No engine cover" look has all but disappeared to hide the dual carbs etc. that were added.


And states can change inspection cut-off dates. Years ago, when I lived in VA, they started requiring emissions inspections on cars hat had been previously exempted. Lots of surprises for the Good Ol Boys......


And last.... smog cams have already been challenged in court, and won.



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Old 09-22-2015, 10:32 AM   #66
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And last.... smog cams have already been challenged in court, and won.
Who won?
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:24 AM   #67
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Well, ya know what they always said about diesels: torque is cheap. ;>))
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:47 AM   #68
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Who won?
Hi: David Tilston... It's not who won or lost... but how they changed the game!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie
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Old 09-22-2015, 12:27 PM   #69
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I think the real money was made by the rich that can sell short at the drop of the hat. Personally I think that should be against the law to sell stock you dont have.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:12 PM   #70
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Calculated indices have determined that air traffic does not significantly contribute to the global budget of NOx, but the VW diesel does.
Now we know the real reason it is referred to as Laughing gas!

I could not guess how many defective EGR valves I have found due to a design which promotes the formation of carbon deposits.
Every one of these results in more NOx emissions at ground level.
This violation appears to be a simple program variance to the EGR program.

It appears that the complaint against VW has to do with NOx emissions and not to black smoke.
As usual the media have reported this with headlines which read like this...
"Volkswagen cheats... intentionally multiplies pollution 40 times".

What do they say when they WANT to hyperbolize?
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:26 PM   #71
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Darwin,

The opportunity to sell short exists for everyone. VW will easily survive this situation, GM survived their's thru the grace of the taxpayers.

At some point one should be a buyer of VW stock (to make money).

We keep our cars for 10 years and have never failed an emissions test nor have we ever had an engine repair with our Hondas, Legend, Porsche or Audi. I can't remember the last time I've met someone who's failed an emission test. Today's cars seem to have emissions mastered.

I see more diesel powered trucks in hard acceleration spewing black smoke than anything else these days, the type many tow with. I really don't understand why.

I also don't understand why VW diesels pass emissions tests. I thought the reading of the OBD for emissions was some kind of accumulated data, is this not true?
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:31 PM   #72
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I looked up the OBD emissions test. It does require you to drive the car for one week if you replace your battery or clear your OBD faults. Therefore, it appears that the OBD test reads the accumulated emissions information. It seems that this implies the OBD test simply reports that all equipment has worked as designed for a week.

Interested in other info if you have any.
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Old 09-22-2015, 01:46 PM   #73
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Well, for one, that 737 or whatever cruises well above the part of the atmosphere that traps emissions at or near ground level. What happens at 30,000 feet tend to stay at 30,000 feet. And, even a 737 will take about 150 vehicles off the road for the length of the trip.


When I drive from Riverside to Chelan it takes about $210 in gas + 1200 more miles on my vehicle + meals + 2 days time. When I fly it's about $135.00 and about 4-5 hours total time. So that's a lot of pollution that doesn't get into the air



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Old 09-22-2015, 02:01 PM   #74
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Darwin,

I see more diesel powered trucks in hard acceleration spewing black smoke than anything else these days, the type many tow with. I really don't understand why.
There is a large business culture devoted to modifying cars and trucks. Buying a "tune" isn't the same as going to Apple though.

One example of a truck diesel "tuner" is Got a 2011-2016 6.7L Super Duty Diesel ? - 5 Star Tuning. I have no idea if this example is one that creates the offensive carbon dust or not.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:19 PM   #75
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Things have change since "Years Ago"


Today most new cars don't have a first emissions inspection until they are 5 years old, and most pass for the next several inspections unless an owner/mechanic has screwed with them.
Here in BC we did away with emissions inspections a couple of years ago completely! Not enough cars on the road that were failing the test to justify the tax money being spent to keep inspection stations open as well as the fact due to the small number of cars failing they could not claim to be doing much in the way of helping the cleaner air situation.
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Old 09-22-2015, 02:37 PM   #76
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Well, for one, that 737 or whatever cruises well above the part of the atmosphere that traps emissions at or near ground level. What happens at 30,000 feet tend to stay at 30,000 feet. And, even a 737 will take about 150 vehicles off the road for the length of the trip.


When I drive from Riverside to Chelan it takes about $210 in gas + 1200 more miles on my vehicle + meals + 2 days time. When I fly it's about $135.00 and about 4-5 hours total time. So that's a lot of pollution that doesn't get into the air
A passenger jet uses about 2000 gallons of fuel just on take-off...from the ground to cruising altitude. (13 gallons per passenger) Not the whole trip and not counting to and from the airport(s).


A VW diesel uses about 25 gallons to go 1200 miles. (6 gallons per passenger) The whole trip!
So just how much NOx do you figure?... Probably MUCH less than that used to clear the lines on the average drag racer at the starting line.

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Old 09-22-2015, 04:07 PM   #77
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A passenger jet uses about 2000 gallons of fuel just on take-off...from the ground to cruising altitude. (13 gallons per passenger) Not the whole trip and not counting to and from the airport(s).

A VW diesel uses about 25 gallons to go 1200 miles. (6 gallons per passenger) The whole trip!
So just how much NOx do you figure?... Probably MUCH less than that used to clear the lines on the average drag racer at the starting line.
I flew from Salt Lake to Denver on an A319 or A320 (can't remember and don't know the difference). The jet stream was both particularly fast and perfectly placed. The pilot said that we consumed 750 gallons. Presuming that we weren't lied to and that I heard right, flying can't be beat when conditions are perfect and the plane is full.
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:16 PM   #78
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An eight (8) month loop of the USA with our Honda CRV and Scamp 16 used about 1,000 gallons of gas for towing and exploring (non-towing).
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:37 PM   #79
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VW's solution reminds me of Captain Kirk's solution to the kobayashi maru test. Only, there are better solutions in this case, as evidenced by the cleaner diesels sold by other mfrs.

I always thought highly of VWs. My father drove a couple of those diesel Rabbits in the late '70s and early '80s (maybe PA ones?) and I always thought I'd have one some day too. But the '98 Jetta Wolfsburg gasser I eventually bought left a bad taste in my mouth. Constant 'check engine light' problems, electrical gremlins (especially in damp weather), cheap plastic parts that discolored and broke easily, etc.
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Old 09-22-2015, 05:07 PM   #80
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There's an interesting chart in this link that translates commercial aircraft fuel consumption to passenger seat MPG. For the most part it looks like, unless you can carry more than 4 passengers, that the airlines win on fuel economy.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft


And yes, they use more fuel on take off, but they are on much lower consumption levels during the 30 minute descent/approach before landing.



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