|
|
10-03-2015, 10:07 AM
|
#121
|
Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarron55
From what I have seen and heard the cost to VW to repair/modify the Diesels to meet the standards will probably be over $7000 per car. The estimated cost to have produced the cars to actually meet the standards was estimated to be ha high as $435.00...
|
Do you happen to have a reference or link for this information? Just curious… I haven't been able to to follow the technical details too closely (and lack your intense personal interest in the outcome…).
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 10:16 AM
|
#122
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Escape 17 ft
Posts: 8,317
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842
What I learned in 'Journalism school' is the biggest stories are rarely covered by media outlets.
|
And, if that is true, how did you learn that it is true?
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 10:18 AM
|
#123
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
|
Keep in mind that the higher VW puts the "Cost" to fix, the less apt it is to get done and, if it is done, inflated costs will mean a higher tax write-off for VW of America, meaning lless tax on corporate profits. (Not political, just creative tax avoidance).
I did see the original cost savings of about $400 per vehicle, vs an exhaust treatment system, mentioned in several articles from Europe. One article was about the beating the VW dealers are expected to take as a result of the scam, the other about the shame it was bringing on German engineering pride.
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 10:28 AM
|
#124
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by honda03842
What I learned in 'Journalism school' is the biggest stories are rarely covered by media outlets.
|
Ya Norm, but when you and I were in school Walter Cronkite was still a copy boy, they were setting type by hand for our Gutenberg presses, and big stories were discouraged..... (and watch your p's & q's) LOL
(Actually Linotypes were still in use by most newspapers, but the lino operators still had to re-enter every story a letter at a time.)
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 11:25 AM
|
#125
|
Senior Member
Name: Jim
Trailer: Scamp 13(sold!) & TDI tugboat
Ohio
Posts: 121
|
These vehicles pass the EPA certification test and an annual Cali-spec tailpipe test. They clearly are capable of passing the emissions test with the correct, legal software. The problem is that VW bumped up MPG and power slightly when not in test mode, at the expense of a minor bump in NOx. The fix is a simple reflash of the ECUs.
The news is all a-twitter about "40 times the emission limits!" but that number is only for NOx and only at WOT and full boost, which is only seen for a few seconds during heavy acceleration. The bad things in exhaust gas are CO(poisonous), CO2 (greenhouse gas), HC(toxic) and PM(carcinogenic), which these cars are usually under limits.
This news story is a tempest in a teakettle, which is a weapon of mass distraction from some unknown thing that might actually be important.
__________________
Cheers,
Jim C & a 1983 Scamp 13
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 11:51 AM
|
#126
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
|
Quote: "This news story is a tempest in a teakettle, which is a weapon of mass distraction from some unknown thing that might actually be important."
Somehow I think that the worldwide interest in Volkswagen having to "cheat", rather than properly engineer the vehicles emissions system, is a huge issue for the world's largest automobile manufacturer (per 2015 figures). If it was a case of something not working, that would be one thing, but they intentionally rigged the computer to obviate the emissions requirement when not being tested.
And in as much that: a) VW admitted the deception and b) has set aside billions of dollars for settlements, it's a lot more than a "Tempest in a Teapot".
The automotive marketplace is usually willing to accept mistakes, and corrective recalls, but intentional deception on this scale, not so much so.... On the plus side, it will make other manufacturers think twice in the future about cheating.
And, as far as I am concerned, clean air is actually important.
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 04:49 PM
|
#127
|
Senior Member
Name: Robert
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Past Tents" 2018 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB SuperCrew
Arkansas
Posts: 1,298
|
At first I saw this whole story as a minor one too - that was, until I saw the worldwide effect it had, and the plummeting stock and company valuations that resulted. The details are less important here than the effect it had. I wouldn't want to be one of the people in the board room right now trying to stop the bleeding.
Sent from my iPhone using Fiberglass RV
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 05:11 PM
|
#128
|
Senior Member
Name: Dale
Trailer: 2010 EggCamper; 2002 Highlander 3.0L; 2017 Escape 21'; 2016 F-150 5.0L Fx4
Colorado
Posts: 746
|
For comparison, I like to think that Ford took the high ground when they discontinued production of their very popular 7.3L PowerStroke light truck diesel engine in 2003 because they couldn't alter it enough to meet newly implemented stricter U.S. emission standards. Rather than cheat, their response was to engineer what turned out to be a series of new generation diesel engines (6.0L, 6.4L) until they finally came up with one that was both durable and could meet the new emission standards (6.7L). They took a beating on customer satisfaction because of other problems with the 6.0L and 6.4L engines, but Ford owners now seem to be happy campers with the 6.7L diesel engine.
If interested: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Power_Stroke_engine
Ford also now offers a 3.2L diesel option in their new Transit with 185 HP and 350 ft lb torque. I would think that could make the little Transit a pretty decent tow vehicle for a fiberglass camper for those who like to tow with diesel power.
|
|
|
10-03-2015, 09:58 PM
|
#129
|
Senior Member
Name: alan
Trailer: looking
Colorado
Posts: 264
|
I found this on Fazebook. Someone deserves credit but I don't know who.
|
|
|
10-16-2015, 01:26 PM
|
#130
|
Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
|
This article, reporting on some testing by CR on both older and newer versions of the TDI engine, appears to give some indication of possible losses in power and fuel economy when the defeat mode is removed in normal driving. The testing reflects software-only fixes, but hardware changes may be part of the eventual recall for older TDIs.
'Cheat Mode' In VW Diesels: Tests Show It Boosts Performance, MPG
From the article:
"To use its ‘safe’ emissions-test mode and prevent the vehicle from cycling over to its dirtier mode, the testers then disconnected some sensors that might tell the computer it was off a test machine and in normal driving conditions. For the 2011 VW Jetta SportWagen TDI, with its older EA189 version of the 2.0-liter turbo-diesel four-cylinder engine, performance from 0-60 mph dropped from 9.9 seconds to 10.5 seconds, while fuel economy in a highway test cycle dropped from 50 mpg to 46 mpg. Yet for the 2015 model, with its newer EA288 version of the 2.0-liter engine, fitted with a Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) exhaust-aftertreatment system, there was only a tenth of a second difference in acceleration, while fuel economy dropped from 53 mpg to 50 mpg."
|
|
|
10-16-2015, 01:31 PM
|
#131
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
|
Apparently VWofA has turned to an American company for a solution for the U.S. versions. How's that for a black-gloved slap in the face of German Engineering.... LOL
|
|
|
10-16-2015, 03:44 PM
|
#132
|
Senior Member
Name: Lee
Trailer: Casita
Texas
Posts: 493
|
What does this have to do with fiberglass RV's. You all need to give this VW stuff a rest and leave it to the political forums.
__________________
Lee
|
|
|
10-16-2015, 04:49 PM
|
#133
|
Senior Member
Name: Jon
Trailer: 2008 Scamp 13 S1
Arizona
Posts: 11,912
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captleemo
What does this have to do with fiberglass RV's. You all need to give this VW stuff a rest and leave it to the political forums.
|
As the one who started all this nonsense, I am sincerely sorry it is bothering you. Because a number of forum members do tow with this engine, and because small diesels seem to be in the midst of a minor comeback in the NA market and typically draw interest from the towing community, I felt it was relevant in a "General Chat" sort of way. I have deliberately avoided politicizing the conversation by passing judgments on the current administration or the EPA's role in this situation or by turning it into a debate between environmentalists and large corporations. Instead I have tried to focus on the facts, the technical details, and the ramifications for owners. Of course, I can only speak for myself, not for the many who have participated along the way.
If the moderators allow this thread to remain open as the situation evolves, you may want to go to the "Thread Tools" in the blue bar above the first post on this page and select "Ignore This Thread." I've done that myself on a couple of occasions.
|
|
|
10-16-2015, 05:07 PM
|
#134
|
Senior Member
Trailer: Class A Motorhome
Posts: 7,912
|
Hmmmm.. two posts in almost two weeks. Not exactly crowding out the band width.
But I know how some threads tend to irritate some folks. I am sure that lots of mine (maybe all by some readers) are put in the "Ignore this Thread" trashcan..... lol
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Upcoming Events |
No events scheduled in the next 465 days.
|
|