Washington State Parks closing ??

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by tua

Learn something new everyday....are there any other states that charge non-residents more than residents?

Yes Wisconsin , non residents pay a $ 5 penalty
A camping site for one night with electricity ( No water , No sewer , No WIFI ) for a non resident is $33 Plus a $10 reservation fee + a $11 park sticker + tax or a total cost of approx $53 per night.
You can stay a KOA with far more amenities at a far lower cost.
We live in Wisconsin and don't camp at their State Parks mainly because it's not economically feasible .
We recently stayed at a private campgrounds located on the same lake as a Wisconsin State Park . We paid $31 / night for a site with electricity , water , sewer , WIFI and cable TV.
Kind of makes you wonder

[floyd]

Originally Posted by Glenn Baglo

Hey Floyd, and all the rest that love to bash politicians, how about stepping up and running for office?
Easy to sit in the peanut gallery, but what are you going to do about it?
Me?
I'm doing nothing. Too lazy. Don't have better ideas.
I'll just post crap like this.

I held public office for 17 years and voted for fiscal responsibility the whole time.
As you can tell, I've never been much of a "politician" though!
If I recall... the country suffered most when the "peanut gallery" was in charge.
Have WE crossed the line yet???

[Alf S.]

Originally Posted by floyd

I held public office for 17 years and voted for fiscal responsibility the whole time.
As you can tell, I've never been much of a "politician" though!
If I recall... the country suffered most when the "peanut gallery" was in charge.
Have WE crossed the line yet???

Hi: floyd... Seems like we have all crossed the line into the "State" of insolvency. Here in Ontario we now qualify for the seniors discount at our Provincial Pks. $37.52... such a nice round figure, but don't expect to talk to a human bean. Just a slot machine to put your CC into!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Yes Wisconsin , non residents pay a $ 5 penalty
A camping site for one night with electricity ( No water , No sewer , No WIFI ) for a non resident is $33 Plus a $10 reservation fee + a $11 park sticker + tax or a total cost of approx $53 per night.
You can stay a KOA with far more amenities at a far lower cost.
We live in Wisconsin and don't camp at their State Parks mainly because it's not economically feasible .
We recently stayed at a private campgrounds located on the same lake as a Wisconsin State Park . We paid $31 / night for a site with electricity , water , sewer , WIFI and cable TV.
Kind of makes you wonder

That's such a shame. The parks are there for people to enjoy. When the powers that be charge too much for access, nobody wins - not even the park service.

There are a few states where we now avoid State Parks and use private campgrounds or back country camping instead, mainly because of the exorbitant fees.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by rbryan

That's such a shame. The parks are there for people to enjoy. When the powers that be charge too much for access, nobody wins - not even the park service.

There are a few states where we now avoid State Parks and use private campgrounds or back country camping instead, mainly because of the exorbitant fees.

Contrast the cost of a Wisconsin State Park with an Oregon State Park. . We camped at a beautiful Oregon SP in 2015 and paid $23 / night for a campsite with water , electric and sewer plus we did not have to pay for a park entrance sticker .We planned on staying for only 3 or 4 days in Oregon but ended up staying for two weeks.
Some states have figured out that tourists who spend time in their state also spend money in their state.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Some states have figured out that tourists who spend time in their state also spend money in their state.

So true. Make it attractive enough for tourists and the revenue end will take care of itself. Everyone benefits, from the guy who pumps gas to the owner of the cafe. Same applies to businesses.

[Bobbie Mayer]

Originally Posted by stevebaz

So if I go to Washington and agree to pay can I get a site. Or do I have to make a reservation 7 months ahead at 8 am and find all the sites booked by 8:15 am like I have to do in my home state of California? Do you also have State sites in premium locations with maybe a hundred spots and out of those 100 sites 4 have active campground hosts and 1 extra host site and 4 handicap sites you cant reserve and are drive up only so they sit empty most of the time because everyone has to book 7 months out at 8 am.

Depends. Very popular sites in popular parks may book 9 months in advance. Starting at 7 am. But there is a penalty for canceling if someone holds them for a long time and then cancels. Other sites even in popular parks, especially non weekend, can be had with a few days notice. Just depends where and when. Usually not 4 campground hosts. (The thing that irks me most is non pet-friendly cabins and yurts (about 10-20% allow pets and the other 80% sit empty many weekdays)- and they charge a pet fee so it isn't an issue of cleaning, they'd get more money if they opened at least half to pets. ) Most of the time when I've camped on weekends in the summer the ADA -only sites are occupied. Lots of last minute drive up traffic for any empty sites.

I don't mind paying a non-resident fee in other states, if they have one. The Washington parks are very nice and well-maintained at least right now. Right now camping is pretty much paid for by reservation fees, though, not that much comes from taxes, though park overall is supported by taxes. Campground fees in Washington can be high. But they usually have non-utility sites at lower fees.

I don't like the Discover pass- I think all the various passes in Washington truly discourage visitors more than any out of area fees do. And it does nothing for campers though I buy one to support the parks.

[Bobbie Mayer]

The problem with State Parks here is kind of the same as everything else- underfunded. People who don't use them think they shouldn't have to pay. (But want us to pay for their city streets and parks which we don't use.) But most popular parks are full a lot of the time so funding should not be the issue it is- the problem is our legislature because of short-sighted voters and politicians who don't want to make people pay taxes for fear of not being re-elected. Things cost money. Taxes or fees, your choice. Somebody has to pay for them. If people all only pay for what we personally use, we have toll roads, toll parking lots, admission at all parks (California has a LOT of that), high campground fees, private schools, etc, and a lot of people who can't afford to do any of it.

[Kai in Seattle]

I hear your pain.


Next year, we hope to go to the Maryhill Gathering and use that as a launching point to tour Oregon for 20 days--10 in May, 10 in June. Twenty days in a row paying only $8 per reservation at the State run campgrounds. Paul's a wounded veteran, and has an Oregon pass to camp at state run campgrounds for FREE. We hope to visit 8 or 9 Oregon campgrounds next year.


In Washington, where we live, he didn't get wounded enough to qualify for a military discount, though we do qualify for both disabled and senior--but we can use only one. Nice--but not AS nice. Oregon doesn't mind if you weren't hurt more.


Then the following year, we plan to do it again, going to different campgrounds. There are 27 state parks with camping facilities (or 28, we keep recounting and sometimes we include something that either IS, or ISN"T...but that means we can see all the Sate Parks in 3 years. Then we'll start on whatever other state-run sites have trailer camping...and eventually we hope to have some "favorites!" Such
are our big plans. We'd do more in WA but frankly, other than that first long drive to the border, the gas costs are about equivalent. Free campsites are pretty alluring! And I know the Oregon campgrounds can be very nice. Some of them offer free hot showers included in your camp fee, too. No worry about having to fool with coins, or worse, tokens when you're--well, nekked! (Not thaqt I can't shower and rise in under three minutes. I certainly can, but it's a workout!).


So we're feeling grateful to Oregon, and we got a real live person, friendly, helpful, and with good news for us when checking on which state facilities offer that free, wounded vet deal. ALL of them, she told us kindly. Yaay!


We're heading to Oregon next year to find out if we can manage 20 days camping!

BEST
Kaia

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by Casita Greg

...we aren't even close to the ridiculous prices they charge for a site in CA.

I suppose it depends on where the site is. We spend a week every year at South Carlsbad State Beach for $35/night plus one $8 reservation fee. In an area where hotels run $200-500/night, most without direct beach access, I call that a bargain!

We did pay the same for a November stay at Big Sur- cold, dark, dirty, spider-infested bathrooms- and it didn't seem so much of a bargain. The campground was half empty. It would probably make more sense to have a bit more flexibility in pricing based on both season and location in a large park system like California's.

Or come to Arizona. Anyone can get a spacious, no-hook-up site at Lost Dutchman State Park for $15/night in the fall ($25 after January 1st) with clean bathrooms and free hot showers. Mid-October through December is usually very pleasant, and the hiking is awesome. Reservations aren't too hard to come by except during peak spring training season, and there is a large, developed, non-reservable overflow section. We value our visitors!

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by Bobbie Mayer

The problem with State Parks here is kind of the same as everything else- underfunded. People who don't use them think they shouldn't have to pay. (But want us to pay for their city streets and parks which we don't use.) But most popular parks are full a lot of the time so funding should not be the issue it is- the problem is our legislature because of short-sighted voters and politicians who don't want to make people pay taxes for fear of not being re-elected. Things cost money. Taxes or fees, your choice. Somebody has to pay for them. If people all only pay for what we personally use, we have toll roads, toll parking lots, admission at all parks (California has a LOT of that), high campground fees, private schools, etc, and a lot of people who can't afford to do any of it.

I would agree almost 100% with you on this Bobbie, except I believe there is one other problem. Funding is tied not just to revenue but to efficiency - and many state governments operate inefficiently. I would pay more in taxes and fees than I currently do with nary a complaint, were it not for the knowledge that governments often squander the money, or misappropriate it for things I either don't want, don't need, or that will stand up a new bureaucracy, making government even less efficient.

I'll give you one example, and you can take it for what it's worth. I work all over the country, and many of my customers are federal agencies or government departments. On any typical day as I walk through the vast cubicle farms, I can find two or three government workers who are dedicated, hard working, knowledgeable and professional. On the other hand, I see even more of them sitting at their desk surfing Facebook or playing solitaire. There is so much dead wood that I estimate 60 to 70 percent of them could go away with no loss in services, efficiency or function. Only the department budget would suffer, because they would need less money to do the same job. They hate that idea.

[War Eagle]

Alabama's State Park system generates money - lots of it -
thanks largely to our little chunk of the Appalachian Mountain range in the Northeast corner of the state and a beautiful stretch of the Gulf Coast in the Southwest corner. Our problem has been that the state legislature siphoned all the profits away and put it in the state's General Fund Budget, and then they only returned a small pittance back to the parks for operation and maintenance. Some sympathetic legislators got an amendment on the general election ballot last Fall that would let the Alabama State Park system essentially keep their profits up to $50 million dollars annually (it's a little more complicated than that, but that's the general idea). https://ballotpedia.org/Alabama_Rule...ndment_2_(2016)
It passed by a wide margin, and the money has already made a world of difference getting long-deferred maintenance underway and the general morale of State park employees. Y'all come visit, ya hear!

[k corbin]

"my state is better than your state"
Well of course it is, after all it is your state and it is expected of you as a resident that you show loyalty to it at all times even when the subject topic of the thread is about writing as a Washington state resident to a Washington State congress member about the annual Washington State Budget negotiations

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by k corbin

"my state is better than your state"
Well of course it is, after all it is your state and it is expected of you as a resident that you show loyalty to it at all times even when the subject topic of the thread is about writing as a Washington state resident to a Washington State congress member about the annual Washington State Budget negotiations

Well yes, it's about Washington State, but the same could be said for many states. RV'ers I believe should be actively involved in issues that affect their lifestyle, regardless of where they live. The thread drifted, but in a good way.

[War Eagle]

I mean no disrespect to any other state or its inhabitants. I'm just saying that maybe folks in other "parks endangered" states can dig a little deeper and learn what all happened behind the scenes to result in Alabama's successful ballot initiative to save our state parks. Believe me, our legislators wanted to keep spending that state park-generated money for their own pet projects, but there was intense lobbying and a full-fledged radio and TV ad campaign to develop public awareness and form opinion. Getting 1.4 million Alabamians to vote "Yes" (79.74%) on a statewide ballot to require that the state legislature redirect state dollars back to the state parks didn't happen because a few people wrote their congressman. And now it's state law. Just saying....

[Jon Vermilye]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

...Or come to Arizona. Anyone can get a spacious, no-hook-up site at Lost Dutchman State Park for $15/night in the fall ($25 after January 1st) with clean bathrooms and free hot showers. Mid-October through December is usually very pleasant, and the hiking is awesome. Reservations aren't too hard to come by except during peak spring training season, and there is a large, developed, non-reservable overflow section. We value our visitors!

And, the top of the overflow area has some of the best views of the Superstition Mountains. Behind site 127:

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by War Eagle

I mean no disrespect to any other state or its inhabitants. I'm just saying that maybe folks in other "parks endangered" states can dig a little deeper and learn what all happened behind the scenes to result in Alabama's successful ballot initiative to save our state parks. Believe me, our legislators wanted to keep spending that state park-generated money for their own pet projects, but there was intense lobbying and a full-fledged radio and TV ad campaign to develop public awareness and form opinion. Getting 1.4 million Alabamians to vote "Yes" (79.74%) on a statewide ballot to require that the state legislature redirect state dollars back to the state parks didn't happen because a few people wrote their congressman. Just saying....

If Alabama's new funding mechanism is working so well then why did Alabama sell off Florala SP ? We visited 4 different Alabama SP and 3 of the four had non functioning restrooms and were badly in need of repair From what we saw $50 million dollars won't even come close to reversing the damage caused by years of neglect.

[rbryan]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

If Alabama's new funding mechanism is working so well then why did Alabama sell off Florala SP ? We visited 4 different Alabama SP and 3 of the four had non functioning restrooms and were badly in need of repair From what we saw $50 million dollars won't even come close to reversing years of neglect.

Well, not that I know all that much about Alabama, but I understand they closed several State Parks in 2015, precisely because of their funding problems. The new funding mechanism hopefully will mean no more closures, and the much needed repairs and improvements. I'd say it's a start.

[sokhapkin]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

Contrast the cost of a Wisconsin State Park with an Oregon State Park. . We camped at a beautiful Oregon SP in 2015 and paid $23 / night for a campsite with water , electric and sewer plus we did not have to pay for a park entrance sticker .

Same in Florida state parks. $24/night in most parks and no park entrance fee.

[Wacenturion]

As far as the original question, I rather doubt that Washington Parks will close. Having retired from Washington State F&W, whenever there is a budget crisis, they always throw things on the table that they know will affect the public's opportunity. Meanwhile they, the beauracrats, keep all those high end, not needed, management jobs off the block. This method gets the public to write, call, scream to their local legislatures.

Result....generally end up keeping eveything and raise prices. Smoke and mirrors....never changes. Be better off if like a lot of things government, they would privatize things. Just my 2 cents.