Do I need to winterize

[sal6342]

This year we dewinterized our 13 foot Scamp and decided when we went to State Parks we were not going to fill up with water. It saves us time on the front end when we get there and no need to run the pump on back end dumping water to grey tank. So far it is working out well since we generally bring water and clean our pans at the water spouts at State Parks.

We do have the front toilet and we have just been filling 2 gallon water containers and pouring in toilet. We then dump black water when we leave.

The question we have is do we need to winterize this year.? We will have not flushed the toilet or run the sink or the shower or the water heater.

It would seem to me that if ther was moisture left in lines by winter it would have evaporated?

Let me know your thoughts as we are trying to streamline the whole process and spend more time camping.

Thanks

Scott

[k corbin]

Originally Posted by sal6342

This year we dewinterized our 13 foot Scamp and decided when we went to State Parks we were not going to fill up with water. It saves us time on the front end when we get there and no need to run the pump on back end dumping water to grey tank. So far it is working out well since we generally bring water and clean our pans at the water spouts at State Parks.

We do have the front toilet and we have just been filling 2 gallon water containers and pouring in toilet. We then dump black water when we leave.

The question we have is do we need to winterize this year.? We will have not flushed the toilet or run the sink or the shower or the water heater.

It would seem to me that if ther was moisture left in lines by winter it would have evaporated?

Let me know your thoughts as we are trying to streamline the whole process and spend more time camping.

Thanks

Scott

Water does not evaporate inside of a sealed tank or plumbing pipes. You need open air for evaporation. But if they were drained and no extra water entered into the system after you winterized then they would not need it done again. Never hurts to check though.

[Gerry Kiernan]

In the Fall I drain all tanks. I then use a small compressor to blow out all water lines. If there is no water left in the system you should be okay. I also leave a small heater plugged in, and set at about 55 F. If you do not want to use a heater you will have to make sure items such as sink traps and toilets are completely free of water. Alternatively you can add anti freeze to any place water may be trapped.

[Gompka]

If you are sure there is not water in the system, then you can probably get away without winterizing. On a side note when you say, "we clean our pans at the water spouts at State Parks," i hope you are not actually cleaning dirty dishes right at the spout. There are signs at most parts I've been to that warn you not to do this, it contaminates the water source, especially if its a well source.

[ShelbyM]

Hopefully using a designated dish washing station! Seriously, winterizing really doesn't take long once you are familiar with it. It seems a shame to lose the convenience of the onboard water system just to avoid a 30 minute job once a year....

[Byron Kinnaman]

Originally Posted by Gompka

If you are sure there is not water in the system, then you can probably get away without winterizing. On a side note when you say, "we clean our pans at the water spouts at State Parks," i hope you are not actually cleaning dirty dishes right at the spout. There are signs at most parts I've been to that warn you not to do this, it contaminates the water source, especially if its a well source.

It's running water and people will use running water to wash dishes. I have observed people washing dirty dishes and pans while looking at a sign that says don't do that. They just don't seem to care about others.

[Byron Kinnaman]

There's some things about freezing that seem to be misunderstood. If you're in an area where there's long periods of really cold weather then you need to make sure the water system is drained. A little bit of water is OK as long as there room for expansion. In areas when it gets down below freezing at night you're already pretty well protected with a full water system. It takes a lot of cold to freeze a full fresh water tank. Here's a little experiment for you to try in the fall when it starts getting cold. Put bowl of water outside leave it open to the sky. Place another bowl beside it with cover over it. Then see which one freezes and which one doesn't.

Also note how long it takes to freeze ice cubes in for freezer.


I would never put that pink stuff in my fresh water system.

[Glenn Baglo]

Originally Posted by Byron Kinnaman

I would never put that pink stuff in my fresh water system.

Sure hope you never eat ice cream then. That same anti-freeze is used in ice cream and many other food products.

[Jon in AZ]

The pink stuff is non-toxic, but it tastes funny and can be a pain (and requires a fair bit of water) to flush the remnants out. With a really simple water system such as Byron and I have in our non-bath 13'ers, it's not needed on the fresh water side. I used to put a little in the sink drain to protect the trap, but we haven't used our on-board water system in five years, so no winterizing for us.

Scott, you'll probably want to put some RV antifreeze in your toilet. Ohio can get pretty cold in the winter. You want to protect the plastic parts in the toilet and keep the seals from drying out. I'm thinking put a couple of cups in, flush it down and then put another cup in the bowl to sit through the winter. As long as the fresh water tank, lines, and pump are completely blown dry, you shouldn't have any issues there. Not sure whether there are consequences in letting the 12V pump sit dry and unused for a long period. I assume you don't have a water heater.

As to dishwashing, I'll suggest asking when you check in. One place we camp wants you to put grey water in the drains under the water faucets, which are connected to the sewer system. Another has designated dishwashing stations at the bathhouses. Some require it to be collected in a closed tank- onboard in some locations, in others a blue boy on the ground is acceptable- and emptied into a dump station. Other places still permit dispersing small quantities of grey water on the ground, but it's a good practice to remove food scraps to avoid attracting unwanted critters and disturbing natural feeding patterns. Rules and best practices vary depending on the location, so it's always courteous to ask if you do not have a fully self-contained trailer.

[Warren Wilson]

You do want to ensure you have some anti-freeze in the p-traps. You’ll have one under the toilet and at least one on the grey water side.

A hard freeze can split them nicely.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Warren Wilson

You do want to ensure you have some anti-freeze in the p-traps. You’ll have one under the toilet ....

Dont think so.

(OP's Scamp)

Although IMHO some AF in the bowl would be a good idea.

[CarlD]

Glenn, You are ruining my appetite for ice cream. When My aunt made ice cream years ago I had to turn the crank, but I don't remember her putting antifreeze in it!

[John in Santa Cruz]

RV toilets don't have a trap, they dump straight into the black tank.

[Warren Wilson]

"RV toilets don't have a trap, they dump straight into the black tank."

I will have to check on that -- I believe I have seen p-traps on both of my Bolers. I don't understand how you would keep the smell from the sewage from floating back up the sewer line without a p-trap.

Maybe a different technology -- I will look this afternoon: I am puzzled now!

[John in Santa Cruz]

there's a flap/seal at the bottom of the toilet that opens when you flush. At least on the Thetfords I've seen in my 08 casita, my 14 escape, and various other RVs I've been in.

[Warren Wilson]

Well, that was certainly interesting.

I just looked under my 1980 Neonex Boler and there is only one p-trap -- for the grey water. It looks like the folks who said there is no p-trap on the sewage side are right. The toilet seal (and the small pool of water that forms over it) seem to be adequate to prevent sewage gases from burping up into the unit.

I knew I had dealt with a p-trap issue on my 1978 17 foot Boler, but even the plumbing schematic of the toilet shows no p-trap on the black water side.

(I doubt it will affect my winterizing routine, however, as I do want some antifreeze in the unit anywhere water can accumulate).

I might be using an over-kill approach, but a friend of mine who owns a travel trailer and is a plumber recommended I do it the way he does:

1. Blow the water out of the lines
2. Pump antifreeze into the system
3. Blow the antifreeze out of the system and leave all the taps open

That way any little pools of water have antifreeze in them, but there is very little left in the system to flush out in the spring.

(Just wish it flushed out quicker!)

[CarlD]

Check this out


https://www.rvupgradestore.com/HepVo...C12F370601B4D6

[Justus C]

Originally Posted by Gerry Kiernan

In the Fall I drain all tanks. I then use a small compressor to blow out all water lines. If there is no water left in the system you should be okay. I also leave a small heater plugged in, and set at about 55 F. If you do not want to use a heater you will have to make sure items such as sink traps and toilets are completely free of water. Alternatively you can add anti freeze to any place water may be trapped.

I'm new to this so please excuse my ignorance. When you say water lines, are you referring to supply lines only, or drain lines as well? I'm curious as it seems blowing out the black water tank would be...unpleasant at best. My inclination would be to dump it and pour antifreeze down the toilet.

[John in Santa Cruz]

they mean the fresh water lines. if you thorougly drain the grey and black tanks, what little moisture is left won't matter if it freezes.

[gordon2]

Originally Posted by Justus C

I'm new to this so please excuse my ignorance. When you say water lines, are you referring to supply lines only, or drain lines as well? I'm curious as it seems blowing out the black water tank would be...unpleasant at best. My inclination would be to dump it and pour antifreeze down the toilet.

Actually a very good question.

The holding tanks are no worry, just drain them. But there are some drain lines on some models that require attention. For example, some Scamps have a pump that moves the shower drain water to the holding tank which is higher than the shower pan. You do need to add some antifreeze to the drain and turn on the pump to get it to flow through the pump which could be damaged by freezing water. Also it seems to be generally advised to pour a little antifreeze into the drains, esp if it is a trap drain. One thing for sure.. it wont hurt.