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08-20-2006, 03:22 PM
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#41
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Member
Name: Alan
Trailer: Triple E Surf Side
Ontario
Posts: 67
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Quote:
There is rarely a need for a new frame. I am a certified welder & a frame can be repaired a lot cheaper than making a new one. I think you could have more problems w/a new non factory fabricated frame than repairing your current one.
Don Meyer, PhD-Mech Engr
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Don:
I was wondering about your frame advice. Along the lines of repair may be better than starting over. I'm going to have to make just such a decision.
[b]Background:
Yesterday the frame on my 76 Tripple E Surfside broke completely on passenger side on the last 200km leg of a 5,000 km trip. Frightening when I think about what could have happened. Passenger side rectangular frame member severred completely a couple of feet aft of the point it disappears under the trailer and at the point that the first "step" in the "ladder construction" is welede to it.
I had it carefully inspected last summer before setting out on a 9000 km trip to Colorado from Ottawa. It was inspected by a recommended welder with long experience in trailers. He had reason to believe he'd get the repair work if he found problems. I specifically asked him to look for stress cracks. I can only assume that it was not easily visible. Since about that time I"ve been hearing mild groaning sounds when stepping on the floor that come from the area of the break. I assumed this was some movement between fiberglass, mounting, and frame.
So, why do you feel that there may be more trouble if a new frame is fabricated than repairing the old. Does incresed gauge of steel not promise greater strength and resistance to cracks, rust etc. When you talk about problems, do you mean difficulty in getting the replacement exactly right, lining up bolting points etc.? Or are there other issues.
I am quite shaken by this experience. I am generally quite careful about the condition of the trailer and the tow car, and felt I had done the due diligence on the frame. So I will have difficulty trusting this frame unless I"m really convinced it ca n be repairred in such a way as to ensure it doesn't happen again.
Your insight on the repair vs. replace issue would be much appreciated as would and that of any other experienced engineers welders as well.
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08-20-2006, 06:41 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 3,072
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Alan, my opinion is that designing a new axle from scratch and trying to get it right the first time out of the box is less likely to succeed than repairing a more-or-less tested design -- Overbuilding creates its own problems, like not enuf flex perhaps subjecting the rest of the trailer to excessive stresses.
Like you, I had a spot on my Scamp that was groaning when I walked around -- It turned out to be a crack across the botton of one frame side just in front of the axle weld (presumably done by a careless welder during an axle replacement; the crack followed an unneeded weld bead) -- I took it to a welder friend and he fabricated a stiffener for that part of the frame.
I suspect the braking arguement of leading vs trailing arms is ultimately a non-issue -- Unlike automotive brakes, regardless of which method produces more braking, when setting up the brake controller, the brakes are set to the point the driver wants (with no care to how much excess braking may still be available).
BTW, my gut feeling is to say that because leading brakes tend to lift the trailer, I would expect them to apply more force to the ground, but I really don't know.
Scamp has switched from leading to trailing axles on the 13' trailer, but I don't know what year that started -- They have also gradually increased the standard 'rubbering' of the torsion axles from 1,200 lbs to 2,200 lbs over several decades.
I would certainly expect the trailing axles to give a better ride than the leading ones -- One need only push a loaded wheelbarrow over an obstacle and then pull it over the same obstacle to note the difference in effort and effect on the load.
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08-20-2006, 07:09 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler 1984
Posts: 2,938
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I am not wanting to throw a curve at this but I've been seeing a few trailers where they have changed to a spring mounted axle. The ones that I've talked to are very supportive of this type. They talk about less side swaywhen moving about inside the trailer and less bounce when towing. My torsion axle drops about an inch on one side and is soon going to need replacement. I'm leaning toward this type. Although I'm open to all ideas at this time.
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08-20-2006, 07:12 PM
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#44
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Member
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When I installed the new Dexter axel I reinforced my frame. On the drivers side I added a 3' section of 1 1/2" x 3" retangular tubing under the dropped box....forward of that I added a 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" tubing forward to the area where the frame is exposed.
On the curb side I added a 1 1/2" x 3" section under the dropped floor & another section under the door area forward to the area were the frame is exposed. This last section is turned to match the tubing already there, thus making a 3" x 3". section.
Don Meyer
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08-21-2006, 12:59 PM
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#45
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Senior Member
Trailer: Boler (B1700RGH) 1979
Posts: 5,002
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James, by " spring mounted axle" do you mean a beam axle on leaf springs? This is the design in my 17' Boler (B1700), and I can assure you that without stands or stabilizers the trailer moves around (tilts) when I walk in it. In my topic on my Shock Absorber Retrofit, I mentioned that I find the lean in road manoeuvers excessive, and that I believe that the suspension design is partially to blame.
I suspect that people who convert from a rubber-sprung trailing arm design (the rubber torsion axle) to a beam on leaf springs (leaf spring axle) are increasing spring stiffness at the same time, and any benefit is the result of that stiffness.
In case anyone is interested in details, my B1700 has a Standen's S35 axle, which is functionally identical to a Dexter D35, with a 3500 lb load capacity. Five-leaf spring packs are spaced 55" apart (on centres), undermounted on a 4" drop-beam axle, with the hub faces 73" apart, for a 72" track. This is the typical B1700 suspension, although at least some had rubber torsion axle systems.
__________________
1979 Boler B1700RGH, pulled by 2004 Toyota Sienna LE 2WD
Information is good. Lack of information is not so good, but misinformation is much worse. Check facts, and apply common sense liberally.
STATUS: No longer active in forum.
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01-28-2008, 09:26 PM
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#46
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Junior Member
Trailer: Boler 13 ft 1972
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Ya, it was all cracked in the front also, I thought it was weird to have cracks over the axle too! But Im just glad i pulled it and found the cracks, my new frame is being fabed as we speak.
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I tried to access the "77 pictures" file and it is no longer on webshots? Does any one have a saved copy of it that could be forwarded to me?
Thanks
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01-29-2008, 05:48 AM
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#47
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1988 16 ft Scamp Deluxe
Posts: 25,697
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Cheryl, Roy in TO first referenced those pictures, perhaps you can check with him. I see they were originally posted at Bolerama, you may have to check over there in the forum for more info.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward - 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Double Yolk - 1988 16' Scamp Deluxe
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02-05-2008, 01:54 AM
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#48
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
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Quote:
Cheryl, Roy in TO first referenced those pictures, perhaps you can check with him. I see they were originally posted at Bolerama, you may have to check over there in the forum for more info.
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I tried a quick search on Bolerama with no luck. The site only lets you archive beyond 90 days if you are a paying member. Maybe someone here pays.
There is a remote chance I may have some pictures, but it may take me some time to find them on an old drive from a long gone computer.
But I did find some pictures of a boler frame restoration on webshots
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02-06-2008, 07:05 PM
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#49
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Junior Member
Trailer: No Trailer Yet
Posts: 1
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I didn't replace my frame - but we tore the entire floor out - and I have welded in cross braces to shore the frame up to get rid of the pesky flexing in the main floor area!
~J.
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02-10-2008, 12:46 AM
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#50
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Senior Member
Trailer: 1972 Boler American and 1979 Trillium 4500
Posts: 5,137
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Quote:
I didn't replace my frame - but we tore the entire floor out - and I have welded in cross braces to shore the frame up to get rid of the pesky flexing in the main floor area!
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Jeff, I have a couple of questions for you. Where in TO and what kind of trailer. I think I know what I am looking at, but your profile reads "none".
Roy
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02-10-2008, 10:48 AM
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#51
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Senior Member
Trailer: 92 Bigfoot 13.5 ft / 05 Freestar
Posts: 177
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Quote:
Don:
I was wondering about your frame advice. Along the lines of repair may be better than starting over. I'm going to have to make just such a decision.
[b]Background:
Yesterday the frame on my 76 Tripple E Surfside broke completely on passenger side on the last 200km leg of a 5,000 km trip. Frightening when I think about what could have happened. Passenger side rectangular frame member severred completely a couple of feet aft of the point it disappears under the trailer and at the point that the first "step" in the "ladder construction" is welede to it.
I had it carefully inspected last summer before setting out on a 9000 km trip to Colorado from Ottawa. It was inspected by a recommended welder with long experience in trailers. He had reason to believe he'd get the repair work if he found problems. I specifically asked him to look for stress cracks. I can only assume that it was not easily visible. Since about that time I"ve been hearing mild groaning sounds when stepping on the floor that come from the area of the break. I assumed this was some movement between fiberglass, mounting, and frame.
So, why do you feel that there may be more trouble if a new frame is fabricated than repairing the old. Does incresed gauge of steel not promise greater strength and resistance to cracks, rust etc. When you talk about problems, do you mean difficulty in getting the replacement exactly right, lining up bolting points etc.? Or are there other issues.
I am quite shaken by this experience. I am generally quite careful about the condition of the trailer and the tow car, and felt I had done the due diligence on the frame. So I will have difficulty trusting this frame unless I"m really convinced it ca n be repairred in such a way as to ensure it doesn't happen again.
Your insight on the repair vs. replace issue would be much appreciated as would and that of any other experienced engineers welders as well.
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How does one carefully inspect a tubular steel frame? They rust from the inside out just like a home heating oil tank, and until they actually rust through somewhere there wouldn't be any obvious outward sign that anything is wrong unless the frame cracks from diminished strength due to the interior rust. In Ontario we are required to replace any home heating oil tank after 20 years service, even if it has been inside in the basement. I think it could be a good idea to prevent further rusting by injecting rustproofing oil into the tubing. On my 13.5 Bigfoot they used open channel(3 sided) rather than closed(4sided) tubing, which allows easy visual inspection for rust along the entire length of the frame. If I were going to fabricate a new trailer frame I would have to seriously consider the open channel style.
Bill
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02-11-2008, 05:52 PM
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#52
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Member
Trailer: 1975 Boler 13 ft / Ford Explorer
Posts: 63
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We replaced the entire frame and beefed it up a lot as there were certian areas that seemed to break on most Boler frames. We had the welder copy the old frame but added a few things like stableizers, new axel with a little more gournd clearanc. Check out our photoshow on http://www.photoshow.net/viewshow/VB5du3hP and see what we had done last year. Good luck with your new project we are loving ours.
Cheryl
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02-12-2008, 10:47 AM
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#53
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Member
Trailer: Scamp 16 ft
Posts: 65
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Quote:
We replaced the entire frame and beefed it up a lot as there were certian areas that seemed to break on most Boler frames. We had the welder copy the old frame but added a few things like stableizers, new axel with a little more gournd clearanc. Check out our photoshow on http://www.photoshow.net/viewshow/VB5du3hP and see what we had done last year. Good luck with your new project we are loving ours.
Cheryl
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Very impressive slide show. Nice Job!
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02-17-2008, 11:05 PM
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#54
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Senior Member
Trailer: Scamp
Posts: 358
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Quote:
Hello all, I was looking at my boler today and I started thinking ...
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Great thread thank you. Gives me more insight into how to go about my project.
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