How much is your MFRV really worth?????

[DanPatWork]

So after all of our winter's hard work, we talked with our agent today about getting our Scamp insured. We're not looking to have it covered for the total value of what we have into it, although it would be nice. Replacement value would be great, but the agent calmly informs me that their standard guidelines are NADA. ???????? WHOA!

I don't think I've seen a single MFRV sell at NADA, and certainly not according to NADA condition descriptions.

My question for the rest of you "EGGHEADS" out there is, who are you insured with and how did you convince them that your priceless to you 19XX SCAMP/CASITA/BURRO was worth $XXXX dollars more than NADA.

Realistically all we want is to insure the camper for a value that makes it's value to us, enough that if we had an accident it there would be enough money to make the next project worth our while. NADA would maybe come close to half of the initial purchase.

[Lisa M.]

Ohhh, I'd better check with my agent. I don't remember what my Casita is insured for--I thought I gave THEM a number, but maybe I didn't! Thanks for the heads up!

[Pete Dumbleton]

Here're my thoughts on insurance -- I have insurance for the things I can't afford to replace, like a new car, home, income, medical -- I DON'T insure the things I can afford to replace, and I generally carry the largest deductible I can. This is called 'self insurance' and most large companies do the same thing on a larger scale.

Despite the fact that an egg might be worth more than book value, I can afford to replace it, so it's not insured (except for the fact that it might be covered by my tow vehicle insurance, which I mostly have because of the liability coverage).

I suspect the single question that has made more money for the insurance industry over the centuries is "Was it insured?". I don't believe in coughing up money just to answer that question "Yes".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_analysis

Risk Analysis and Risk Management

The NADA books exist for the loan and insurance industries and that's one reason they will show relatively low numbers for all vehicles, boats, etc. However, as we know, egg values are generally under-represented. And the books generally only go back ten years...

[Roger H]

A couple of years ago, I bought a 1953 Airstream Flying Cloud 23' trailer for $2400. The skin was in excellent condition, the interior in good condition. It needed some work. I updated the LP system, put new wheels and tires on it, added LED taillights and a few other odds-n-ends and was getting ready to re-sell it. I'd had another $1k in it at that point. It needed a new 12v pigtail and I picked up a Bargman one-piece molded unit and took it to my friend who has the local auto-electric shop. He does really, REALLY nice work and I set him to re-wiring the 12v.

A couple of days later, he told me it was done, and I went out to take a look. It was inside his shop, and it looked better than I'd expected. I told him to park the trailer in his lot, and I'd pick it up that afternoon after work. As he was pulling it out of the shop, he hit the top of the trailer against his garage door that hadn't gone all the way up. He dented four of the 13 panels. A quick call to the insurance company to file a claim, and a call to our Airstream dealer with some photos and I had a repair estimate of $5600.

Now... the adjuster called. I told him I expected to sell the trailer for $8500 and all I wanted was a check to cover the repairs. He was appalled until I directed him to a frame-off '53 Flying Cloud on-line that was listed at $30k. Then we started checking junkers for sale for $6k and $7k that were missing body panels or half the floor or were gutted, and he quickly agreed that $8500 was a reasonable value for that trailer and issued the check.

You can buy insurance for a "named" value on your trailer, but it will be up to you to prove the value to the insurance company at the time of loss. That can be done with either an appraisal or comps in lieu of NADA values, but you have to be prepared to prove the value of the trailer before you suffer a loss.

Roger

[Vivian]

In the insurance world, "Actual Cash Value" and "Replacement Cost" are two different things. That applies to trailers, vehicles, houses, personal property, etc.

[jim munson]

I had a wheel come off at 55mph. The damage to the fiberglas was bad.
I have AAA on my tow and supposed that the damage was covered by my comp since it was attached to the truck. WRONG.
Anyway, I now have coverage on the trailer. $50 a year.

[Joe Z]

I went to get replacement insurance on my 1994 casita which is in A1 condition. The best i could get was $2500 if it got totaled and that would cost me about $175 a year ( may have been six months as i forget CRS) they told me i was insured for liability while towing at no extra cost but if a tree fell on it while parked in my yard it wasn't covered..... not even by my homeowners insurance. Mine is not insured for replacement

Hope someone has an easy good answer
Joe

[Pete Dumbleton]

I misspoke above, the trailer itself is not covered, but liability for the trailer is covered. Reason I made the error is that the trailer is NOT my concern, but liability for damage it may do IS my concern. The first is a number followed by three zeros; the second is a number followed by LOTSA zeros -- I can afford the former, but not the latter, and I would like to continue the lifestyle to which I have become accustomed!!

OTOH, if I had something of more value that a number followed by four zeros, then I start to become more concerned.

[Alf S.]

Hi: I think Pete is right on the money... My Dad always said " never risk more than you feel you could lose" and I always feel that you can be "insurance poor". So there has to be a balance of risk/reward!!!
Alf S. North shore of Lake Erie

[DanPatWork]

I appreciate all of the replies so far. Thanks for your input, and to the rest of you keep them coming please.

Pete, I can certainly understand where your coming from in regards to liability only and the trailer being able to be replaced, but I guess the way I look at this is it's a type of lifestyle, and it's the personal work that I can't replace. The work can be rebuilt on another vehicle but it's not justifiable if there was a catastrophic event that would only pay out $1000. There are also enough full-timers out there that probably would like to know that if they got hit, or had an accident while in transit, or even had something happen while at a campground, that their home would be replaced. Perhaps those people can help me out with these questions too.

[Mike Montville]

I appreciate all of the replies so far. Thanks for your input, and to the rest of you keep them coming please.

Pete, I can certainly understand where your coming from in regards to liability only and the trailer being able to be replaced, but I guess the way I look at this is it's a type of lifestyle, and it's the personal work that I can't replace. The work can be rebuilt on another vehicle but it's not justifiable if there was a catastrophic event that would only pay out $1000. There are also enough full-timers out there that probably would like to know that if they got hit, or had an accident while in transit, or even had something happen while at a campground, that their home would be replaced. Perhaps those people can help me out with these questions too.

Dan,

I too have to agree with Pete, I used to work for an Ins. Company years ago and they need something to go off of when insuring, and that's NADA. You really can't insure (Workmanship),(Pride). How would you measure it? What you have done is make an old scamp look fantastic!! But in the end, the insurance co. see's and old camper that has a NEW thin layer of paint over it. Just curious, what do you think your trailer is worth?

My 2 cents

Mike

ps. You want to know how I feel about my Red Boler? I'll tell you, I own a $100,000 1975 boler I restored from the ground up! It took me 18 months to restore it. But I tell you what, The ins. Co. tells me it's worth about $1000. But that's ok, because I had a blast restoring it.

[DanPatWork]

what do you think your trailer is worth?

I'm not sure what it's worth. I know it's worth more than the $1000 that NADA calls for. I would hope that it's worth at least the purchase price. But I'd Love for it to be worth more than that.

[Donna D.]

If it was a Hot Rod, you'd go to an independent appraiser and have it appraised. Then you could have the vehicle insured for appraised value. There too as Mike mentioned, you can't add value based on Pride... but you do add value based on Workmanship. But these are vehicles, not trailers. You'd have better luck if it were an Airstream too. There are some insurance companies where you "buy" the value. Lloyd's of London is an example. Interesting topic, I'm curious to see how it all turns out.

[Mike Montville]

I'm not sure what it's worth. I know it's worth more than the $1000 that NADA calls for. I would hope that it's worth at least the purchase price. But I'd Love for it to be worth more than that.

Dan I tell you what,
I bought my Boler for $2000. Do I think I over paid for it at the time? YES, It was a piece. Final cost after restoration was about $5000, $5500 with the awning and screen room I'm about to buy. I measure true value by what people are willing to pay for it. My Boler is not for sale, But I have had people offer me over $10,000 for it (Yes, no kidding), and I need my head examined for not selling it, but I restored it for my son who is 2 so we can go camping. Why did they offer me that much?, because (people in the know) know it's better then a standard Scamp (just like yours is better then a standard Scamp) that sells for about $7000-$8000 (13ft) new. Custom scamps sell for about $11,000-$12,000 (13ft) new. The Boler is also a collector camper (First mass produced FG trailer ever made, and not made any more). I live in MN, and there are not a lot of Bolers in the upper Midwest, which gives it even more value.

Dan, I feel your pain. I wish I had an answer for yah. The way I look at it, I have a custom trailer that I only paid 5k for! I saved 5-7k by restoring vs buying a custom Scamp. I have Liability ins on it and am very careful with it. And pray that Acts of GOD doesn't take it away from me because I know it's a one of a kind, just like yours!

Cheers
Mike

[Roger H]

Once again, you need to insure the trailer for "actual value", and you can establish what the market value of your trailer is by watching and recording the sales of similarly restored trailers on eBay, our "for sale" section and other similar venues where fiberglass trailers are sold. Comps don't need to be specifically "Boler" or "Scamp" or your brand, just similar age, size, and similarly restored. Hopefully you kept all of your receipts for new "stuff", paint, tires, axles, cabinet doors, etc. and kept some records of the amount of time you spent on the restoration to show when you need to. Also make sure you've fully documented what the trailer looks like in photos so you have those to show it's pre-damage condition. You should do that every couple of years so the photos are recent and accurate.

It's going to take some time and research on your parts along with some dialogue with your insurance agent to establish the value of your trailer with your insurance agent's underwriter, but you can (and probably should) do it. I guarantee that any adjuster won't have a clue what your restored "CasBolScamTril" is worth otherwise.

Roger

[Pete Dumbleton]

Dan, you've already gotten a reply from a Full Timer -- Me!

I spent six years in my Scamp 13' and three years before that in a Jayco 16', pulled by an '82 Dodge pickup. I started out presuming that at some point I might have to walk away from them both and life was easy. I would be self-replacing and not messing around from the middle of nowhere with an insurance company whose goal is make money, not spend it.

OTOH, I was in Florida at a canoe rental place. They had transported a guy's beautiful hand-made cedar strip canoe and wrecked it. Their insurance paid $3K for it and the owner was ecstatic because now he could make another! He liked building them more than paddling or admiring them.

If you are going to insure it, then do the homework Roger recommends, otherwise they will go with industry standard practice for boats and vehicles, which is the third-party blue book.

[Frederick L. Simson]

I guess the way I look at this is it's a type of lifestyle, and it's the personal work that I can't replace. The work can be rebuilt on another vehicle [b]but it's not justifiable if there was a catastrophic event that would only pay out $1000.

I'm of two minds on this issue.

I recently suffered a total loss on my 2nd car that was hit (and run) while parked on the street in front of my house. While it was older, I had full coverage on it, and collected a fair settlement from my insurance company. But I cannot replace it for the amount of the settlement.

My Fiber Stream is worth about $1000 according to NADA. Like Pete, I accept that I cannot comprehensively insure it for what it would cost to replace. I feel that I will enjoy it for as long as it lasts, and leave it at that.

[Gina D.]

Burros aren't even in NADA.

[Pete Dumbleton]

I think NADA drops the brands if they haven't been made in ten years, and drops the models after ten years. I doubt Edsel is in the car book either. Don't know what they do about Canadian brands...

My vehicle insco recommends not carrying ins on vehicles over ten years old, except liability, of course, in part because the value is so low, but also I think because of the problem of valuation.

Even the wrecking yards crush theirs after ten years, esp in US. CA is smart and keeps the trucks longer because they are kept longer by owners.

[Gina D.]

Pete, min is a 99, so it's under 10 years (Barely) and Freds is a 70s model that is in.. I think they stopped in 86 or close to that.

I couldn't see any pattern to what was in there