Hurricane Preparations

[mosquito13]

Had some 80lb bags of cement left over from a slab pour. Decided to be proactive and dug four holes at the corners of where I park my camper. Each hole got 160lb of cement and a 1/2" galvanized sand screw anchor as well as a 12' PT 4"x4" . 4x4 for a removeable sun screen cover , sand anchor to attach some heavy duty ratchet straps to after threading through the frame. Probably over kill til it isn't.

[jerrybob]

Sounds like you did a lot of work.....what's the goal here? Strong winds? Hurricane? Even with all your work......I don't think a Casita will do well from a direct hit from a hurricane. Maybe I am missing something??

[mosquito13]

I have been in eye of a cat. 5 on St. Thomas. You do what you can, leave the rest to the insurance adjuster.

[Jon in AZ]

Hurricanes vary in intensity, and you're more likely to experience a glancing blow than a direct hit. I think the plan has merit. It certainly wouldn't hurt.

[jerrybob]

Yea....I hear ya. Hope you don't experience it again. If I knew a hurricane was coming.....I'd hook up the trailer and get the heck out of Dodge......good luck.

[computerspook]

Actually the best way to respond to a hurricane is to not be there. And a nice scamp camper is a great way to not be there. For a while we had a man-made disaster that came to town once a year. Completely different problem, but on one level the same idea. There was a big drunken party with people who thought that private property was where they went to do their most annoying private things. Have had to wake up a naked woman sleeping behind my car in order to leave for work.The people running it have settled the problems down but for about 4 years it was pretty bad. And so most of my neighbors found some way to be somewhere else after securing their homes. And that was kind of my solution. Let's be clear the people at the big party didn't really do a lot of property damaged they did damage and annoyance to people.

I used to pack up my Scamp with a friend and we would go to some nice place we wanted to visit about a half a day away and camp out there for the 4 days this mess was in the area. That certainly is pretty much what I would plan for if a hurricane came to where I lived. So I'm not sure a great way to tie down a Scamp would be as useful as a great way to get it out of there fast.

[John McDonald]

Strapping it down will be the thing to do during the hurricane season especially when the path(s) don’t center on your location. When you are in the most likely path, that may call for getting out of Dodge!

[redbarron55]

A bit of expensive experience on most ratchet straps today (well most any day). If you did not buy sets of those expensive truck straps, but almost any of the smaller ones perhaps rate 2000 lbs you need to be aware that the STRAPs are rated 2000lbs, but the ratcheting hardware is not usually rated at all.
We had a straight line wind at an airport I operated and many owners believed those ratings and used them for tying down their small airplanes and EVERY ONE failed. That was about 10 airplanes destroyed. Of course instead of trying to get the manufacturer of the strap to stand behind them they sued me instead.
Of course we provided 1/2 inch nylon rope to tie down the planes and used it on our aircraft for free.
None of the rope failed!
Every one of the straps either pulled the hooks straight or tore the metal ratcheting mechanism apart.
Use some chain binders or perhaps nylon rope to hold your camper in place.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

A bit of expensive experience on most ratchet straps today (well most any day). If you did not buy sets of those expensive truck straps, but almost any of the smaller ones perhaps rate 2000 lbs you need to be aware that the STRAPs are rated 2000lbs, but the ratcheting hardware is not usually rated at all.
We had a straight line wind at an airport I operated and many owners believed those ratings and used them for tying down their small airplanes and EVERY ONE failed. That was about 10 airplanes destroyed. Of course instead of trying to get the manufacturer of the strap to stand behind them they sued me instead.
Of course we provided 1/2 inch nylon rope to tie down the planes and used it on our aircraft for free.
None of the rope failed!
Every one of the straps either pulled the hooks straight or tore the metal ratcheting mechanism apart.
Use some chain binders or perhaps nylon rope to hold your camper in place.

Or if you use the ratcheting systems find about 3,000 lb or something that you can lift with them. After all you want it overrated. And if it fails it fails if it works well it works. ;-)

[redbarron55]

If you test them by picking up a weight you miss the pounding and snatching that goes with a hurricane. Hours and hours of pounding, snatching and jerking.
I would still take the rope over anything that has a metal to metal contact.
Perhaps a chain binder with the handle tied down.

I have started thinking about this for our Scamp, but living in the panhandle of Florida we would usually plan on running away with FrankenScamp and returning when it has passed to see what is left.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

If you test them by picking up a weight you miss the pounding and snatching that goes with a hurricane. Hours and hours of pounding, snatching and jerking.
I would still take the rope over anything that has a metal to metal contact.
Perhaps a chain binder with the handle tied down.

I have started thinking about this for our Scamp, but living in the panhandle of Florida we would usually plan on running away with FrankenScamp and returning when it has passed to see what is left.

You're correct but I think missed the point. You're going to have to massively over rate whatever it is you use. But a 2000 lb rating is basically it will lift 2,000 lb. So if you wanted to test for 2,000 lb rating you would lift 2000 lb. I'm saying you want to overweight and test things. Maybe 3,000 would be a overkill. But find the amount of overrating that you would feel comfortable as being rated at 2,000 lb. Static load. And then that is your starting point not your finish point and figuring out how to do a tie down.

Then you have to figure out your angles and how much pull you're actually putting on the lines. And then you start dealing with the jerking and stuff which is exactly what you got to deal with. If I remember rightly Air Force cargo ratings for tie downs was to calculate the force. And then go four times more. So if you think you need a 2000 lb tie down in a specific position. You probably ought to be using 8,000 pounds worth of tie down. And that would be regardless of ratchet tie ropes or anything else. Which if I remember rightly they use chains. Talk about metal on metal. ;-)

By the way just in case you're curious. The main reason FEMA is insisting on and recommending serious tie downs of the frame of a mobile home has nothing to do with trying to save the mobile home. They don't give a darned about saving the mobile home. Matter of fact is I find an awful lot of what FEMA does a lot of they don't give a darned. But they want to make sure there was a mobile home there. So the point of their tie-down design for a mobile home is to have enough frame left there to be able to determine that a mobile home was there for purposes of relief and insurance. That's the only reason that they have their tie down plans.

And the point on this is that in reality probably any ratchet strap or anything else is going to be good enough for what you will get out of tying your fiberglass trailer such as a Scamp down. I would suspect that if you had really good solid concrete anchors, and used 2,000 lb rated something ratchet strap rope or chain or whatever floats your boat, and strapped the bumper down probably in a couple places strapped the wheels down. And then strap the hitch down in a couple places. You would be more than good enough for what you're going to get out of it. And at that point after the hurricanes over you will have the frame and only the frame of your fiberglass camper sitting there nice and secure.

[redbarron55]

You make some good points, there.
As to the metal on metal with chains usually the chain binders are pretty tight and compress the tires to pre load the chains limiting the impact, plus the chains are pretty hefty.
I remember that when we bought property with a triple wide "manufactured" home in Texas we wanted to get it changed from chattel property to real property. To do this the trailer frame had to be secured with the metal straps that are built in to tiedowns that meet the specs and the top foot had to be encased in concrete.
The existing tie down would not do.
The existing was concrete pads with 10" heavy wall pipe sunk 10' also concreted in with two of these per frame crossmember, welded to the frame after leveling.
The engineer could not believe the system overkill, but the laws required that the straps be installed per the specifications.
One time I was looking at buying a modular home and talked with the engineer about the strength compared to a stick built home.
What he answered was that the modular home sections had to be designed and built to be able be hauled down the road at 70 miles an hour into whatever wind there might be...
To be honest any tiedown is better than none, but don't use the cheap ones that don't have a WLL tag attached. The Working Load Limit rating is 1/3 of the breaking strength of the strap and fittings.
Still, every ratchet strap on the airport failed and I would not use them for this application. When you buy 4 straps for$18.00 (1000 lbs?)
The 2" 3300 lb rated at $16 each might well be just fine.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

You make some good points, there.
As to the metal on metal with chains usually the chain binders are pretty tight and compress the tires to pre load the chains limiting the impact, plus the chains are pretty hefty.
I remember that when we bought property with a triple wide "manufactured" home in Texas we wanted to get it changed from chattel property to real property. To do this the trailer frame had to be secured with the metal straps that are built in to tiedowns that meet the specs and the top foot had to be encased in concrete.
The existing tie down would not do.
The existing was concrete pads with 10" heavy wall pipe sunk 10' also concreted in with two of these per frame crossmember, welded to the frame after leveling.
The engineer could not believe the system overkill, but the laws required that the straps be installed per the specifications.
One time I was looking at buying a modular home and talked with the engineer about the strength compared to a stick built home.
What he answered was that the modular home sections had to be designed and built to be able be hauled down the road at 70 miles an hour into whatever wind there might be...
Still, every ratchet strap on the airport failed

Well to be clear they're designed for the wind to be hitting one specific face of the structure. And a lot of times there's actually additional bracing on the front side that they take off as part of installation. Or at least sometimes because I've been hired to remove it. I've also been hired a couple times, actually a few more than a couple times to load old crappy mobile homes into roll-off boxes. ;-)

But either way, the air that they're experiencing is well actually air. It doesn't have a large amount of debris in it. And you're going to find that hurricane and for that matter tornado or around here straight line, has a great deal of solid material in it. And so that adds a lot more stress.

As for the failure of the ratchet straps at the airport, I got a really good question. I wonder if the people properly installed them. I regularly see people fail on that. Where is the issue of properly making sure there's enough on the wind up reel to actually hold. And there is the issue of twisting and nodding and some other things like that that drastically reduce the strength of any kind of straps. But there's another one that people don't realize. Go look at your ratchet straps. You're going to find that if you move the handle all the way to close, and all the way. Then the handle engages with the catch latch and prevents the catch latch from moving. And it also engages and prevents its own latch from moving. Basically if the handle is all the way closed then it's actually locked. But if you're only halfway close it isn't actually locked.

[redbarron55]

The strapps failed is different ways.
1. The bent "wire" end hooks pulled out straight.
2. the metal cage that the ratchet is located in deformed due to the stress and the slots and holes in the metal. This let the ratchet come apart.
3. None of the actual straps broke as they are far stronger than the rest of the unit.
4. None of the nylon rope broke and none of the knots failed, however one aircraft was write off due to the wing structure being bent by the wind loads.
5. A few of the tidown rings broke off of some aircraft.
6. About 30% of the aircraft on the field were lost and that same percentage applied to aircraft stored in hangars due to doors being blown in.
7. None of the aircraft stored in the TEE hangars were damaged.

My only real purpose in posting is to tell the readers that those cheap tiedowns are not the deal that they might assume and while the actual straps will most probably hold the rated weight the ends and the ratchet mechanism is not to be trusted, but your mileage might vary. Learning that you are wrong could be expensive.

However the idea of a parking space with tiedown rings set in the ground and some good rings welded or wrapped around the frame is a great idea.

My guess is that the most likely damage to a fiberglass trailer is to be rolled over and around or hit by debris or a falling tree etc.

Just use a better tiedown than those very attractive cheap tiedown packs. To b clear I also have several around the shop, but I also have some 3" real tiedown straps as well.

So a new project for next winter!

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by redbarron55

The strapps failed is different ways.
1. The bent "wire" end hooks pulled out straight.
2. the metal cage that the ratchet is located in deformed due to the stress and the slots and holes in the metal. This let the ratchet come apart.
3. None of the actual straps broke as they are far stronger than the rest of the unit.
4. None of the nylon rope broke and none of the knots failed, however one aircraft was write off due to the wing structure being bent by the wind loads.
5. A few of the tidown rings broke off of some aircraft.
6. About 30% of the aircraft on the field were lost and that same percentage applied to aircraft stored in hangars due to doors being blown in.
7. None of the aircraft stored in the TEE hangars were damaged.

My only real purpose in posting is to tell the readers that those cheap tiedowns are not the deal that they might assume and while the actual straps will most probably hold the rated weight the ends and the ratchet mechanism is not to be trusted, but your mileage might vary. Learning that you are wrong could be expensive.

However the idea of a parking space with tiedown rings set in the ground and some good rings welded or wrapped around the frame is a great idea.

My guess is that the most likely damage to a fiberglass trailer is to be rolled over and around or hit by debris or a falling tree etc.

Just use a better tiedown than those very attractive cheap tiedown packs. To b clear I also have several around the shop, but I also have some 3" real tiedown straps as well.

So a new project for next winter!

Well it is true you get what you pay for. And yes some of those ratchet straps don't look very good on the ratchet part, especially the ones like you get it Walmart and etc. I get mine at Rural King. And they do seem to have bigger ratchet units. With more steel in the structure.

Never seen the hooks get bent but as I said I buy good ones. But before I learned the trick about putting the handle all the way down, I did have some partial failures. And in those partial failures the structure of the metal did get bent badly. But since it wasn't quite as catastrophic of situation as you're talking about I could see that the fixed catch had loosened up on one side of the ratchet was the first step in the bending and failure. And as I said then when I looked at these I realized oh there's a way to lock that catch in place so we can't loosen up and fail on one side.

Now I always make sure those handles are all the way down. And actually the Walmart ratchet straps don't have the mechanism in them to lock the fixed catch in place. The good ones I get it Rural King definitely do. And now I make sure those handles are down if I'm going somewhere any distance. And if I'm going to another town or city frequently I'll use wire ties to hold them down.

And I have seen other people have this straps themselves break. But when I'm there helping clean up and helping deal with it, I don't know if there are other straps have knots in the straps and have holes in the straps and cuts in the straps. If you've damaged the integrity of the strap and that includes putting a knot in it then it's done for and don't use it. Much like I would assume you wouldn't use a rope that had a cut in it.

[GEOR]

I experienced a Category 4 hurricane

The only way to protect an RV from a hurricane is RUN! Don't stay in hurricane path.
A hurricane will shred this fragile little shell, and the open doors, windows, and chassis will be torn apart bit by bit. Flying debris and branches will penetrate the walls.
If you welded RV metal chassis to the earth, the huge air pressure would pull the body off the chassis and destroy it.

Someone shared picture of the US National Guard protecting military trucks from high winds. Huge cement blocks the size of containers were buried in the ground, and metal chains secured the truck chassis. It was a military truck. The nylon ratchet straps were just a joke.

[computerspook]

Originally Posted by GEOR

I experienced a Category 4 hurricane

The only way to protect an RV from a hurricane is RUN! Don't stay in hurricane path.
A hurricane will shred this fragile little shell, and the open doors, windows, and chassis will be torn apart bit by bit. Flying debris and branches will penetrate the walls.
If you welded RV metal chassis to the earth, the huge air pressure would pull the body off the chassis and destroy it.

Someone shared picture of the US National Guard protecting military trucks from high winds. Huge cement blocks the size of containers were buried in the ground, and metal chains secured the truck chassis. It was a military truck. The nylon ratchet straps were just a joke.

Certainly tend to agree. The purpose of an RV is to be mobile so a great time to be mobile. ;-) This is true of any direct hit. And really true of any close hit. I think any kind of tying it down is probably going to be useless. Actually not totally agreeing about your comment on ratchet straps being a joke. Actually a good set of straps would probably be about as secure as would have any use. The the hit was even far away you can get heavy winds and rain. MAYBE ---- MAYBE tying the frame down might help. As you said any real wind and rain and the associated rain will most likely rip the body off of the frame and destroy it. So your only real interest would be that window of forces what would move the camper in a way that would seriously damage it if not tied down but would not destroy it if the frame stays put. It would be possible for winds to move the camper and say drop it in a ditch etc. And you would want to avoid that. And frankly reasonably secure anchor points and good qualify ratchet straps would prevent this for any wind and etc level where preventing the movement would prevent destruction. Any more force than good quality ratchet straps would not hold in would just totally destroy the body anyway.

[Meadowlark]

I have had only one experience with a hurricane, when I was in Korea and went through Typhoon Irving. (pacific ocean ''hurricanes'' are called typhoons, atlantic 'hurricanes' are called hurricanes)
I saw the winds push trucks sideways. THe thing that impressed me was how much stuff was in the air...everything from vegetation to hunks of corrugate metal in the air. Flying debris probably damages more than just 'wind', but again, I'm working with only one experience.



It doesn't surprise me, then, that FEMA merely wants to see what was there before the wind event. After Hurricane Sandy demolished the NJ coast, many people had to prove to FEMA that they actually had a house, because what was left was nothing. Trhey could show property tax payments, pictures of family in front of the house, even insurance premiums... And FEMA...now I know this will surprise a lot of you...denied their claims.



Computerspook,you taught me something important. I have a manufactured home. It's not on a slab, instead, it has concrete 'caissons' that have 'hurricane straps' imbedded and the home is bolted to those straps. While we don't get many typhoons here, we do get 'direchos'...basically a horizontal tornado-that do a hell of a lot of damage, and also, downbursts? tremendous winds pounding straight down.


I think I'd trust good rope before I'd trust ratchet straps, for the reasons pointed out above.



What we have to worry, here in the PNW, is wildfires. Our last one...the fire started at, say, 1200 oclock noon, and twenty minutes later we got a Level 3 Evacuation order. 20 minutes to pack a lifetime and scram.So at this time, we have our Casita all packed up, ready to evacuate. I have a box with all sorts of documents: Bills of Sale (yes, insurance companies won't believe that you actually owned a refrigerator, slept in a bed and ate off of plates with a knife and fork), Insurance policies, photos of all the Stuff-all the documetns that offices and states demand. For instance WHY do I have to prove that I was born? But some agencies insist on a Birth Certificate). That box is ready to be packed. Pack a bag of clothes, if you have pets, take their food, a kennel, a litter box , leashes for the dogs, etc.



Because, as one or two posters said, the best way to make it through any sort of disaster...be it a typhoon, a wildfire or an earthquake (we have those, too), is to evacuate.

And thankfully, those of us on this forum, have our own little homes to live in until we can go back and see if there's still a house standing.

[GEOR]

Originally Posted by computerspook

Certainly tend to agree. The purpose of an RV is to be mobile so a great time to be mobile. ;-) This is true of any direct hit. And really true of any close hit. I think any kind of tying it down is probably going to be useless. Actually not totally agreeing about your comment on ratchet straps being a joke. Actually a good set of straps would probably be about as secure as would have any use. The the hit was even far away you can get heavy winds and rain. MAYBE ---- MAYBE tying the frame down might help. As you said any real wind and rain and the associated rain will most likely rip the body off of the frame and destroy it. So your only real interest would be that window of forces what would move the camper in a way that would seriously damage it if not tied down but would not destroy it if the frame stays put. It would be possible for winds to move the camper and say drop it in a ditch etc. And you would want to avoid that. And frankly reasonably secure anchor points and good qualify ratchet straps would prevent this for any wind and etc level where preventing the movement would prevent destruction. Any more force than good quality ratchet straps would not hold in would just totally destroy the body anyway.

I didn't express it clearly. Even if you use the strongest carbon fiber nano cable in the universe to fix the RV to the surface of the earth, the cable will not fail.
The structure of the RV itself cannot withstand that kind of wind force and will be torn apart, plus there are other debris attacks.
When a hurricane hits a solid house, it does not blow the house over in a few seconds, but the continuous strong wind will tear off one shingle, the second piece, the fourth piece, the first window, then a piece of Plywood on the roof, and then the wind will go in and tear off a wall, and then the whole house done.

[Casita Greg]

Well, I guess that's why I don't live in the "hurricane" part of the country.
Sorry for those who live where they occur.