Lug Nut Torque

[CampyTime]

Hi Everyone,

I have a 2012 Scamp 13 and am getting new tires in the next couple of weeks. I checked Dexter website, but the 3 stage torque specs they share only apply to wheels they made before 2004. I have 13" wheels, 5 on 4-1/2 bolt pattern. I plan on getting the load range C Carlisle Radial Trail HD from Discount Tire Direct and getting them put on wheels and balanced by my mechanic, taking tires off myself and bringing to him. I do have a torque wrench.

I also wondered if I should get new lug nuts, or reuse current ones as long as they're ok.

Dexter data shows 20 to 25, 35 to 40, then 50 to 75 in final torque. This may still apply to me basically, but I seem to remember Scamp telling me final spec is 85 foot pounds. Thank you for your help!

Sincerely,
Wendy

[John in Michigan]

I just use a cross shaped tire iron and then carry this tool in the tow vehicle. To tighten the lug nuts, tighten the lug nuts successively and repeat in succession several times. When I do it this way, I have never found that the lug nuts loosen when I re-check them on the road. Also, good idea to re-check temperature of each hub on the road.

[rdickens]

Just FYI -

At least at Discount Tire, the load range D Carlisle tires are the same price as the load range C tires.

See the following thread:

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...mps-79240.html

Ray

[CampyTime]

Thanks for the FYI. I admit I don't understand why one would consider load range D? My knowledge is at budding stage, but isn't the axle the determining factor of GVWR? So if I have 2200 # axle, if load range C is 1360#, and I'm not sure of that number, twice that about matches my axle rating? I know tires bring heated discussions, so I was really seeking torque specs. I figured stick with Load C cuz that's what I have, altough I did read Scamp went to D load range.

Again, I constantly post disclaimers, so please don't beat me up too much!

Wendy

[FRED SMAILES]

At the bottom of the chart trailers are listed
Wheel Torque Chart - Discount Tire Direct

[CampyTime]

Thank you Fred.

[Kenny in Ohio]

Wendy,
I just had the Carlise HD load range D installed on my 16 Std.
It is questionable for the 16' but for your 13 you are right in having load range C.
Don't worry about it, rather worry that the cowboy at the tire shop dose not
tighten the nuts so hard and break a stud. Tell him to torque it to 100 ft lbs.


Kenny

[Wayne Collins]

The old farmer's rule was, " Lift on the wrench untill the wheel comes off the ground!" Not really.

Unless you are a big bruiser, just synch them down till they don't move anymore.

the torque chart given by the other guy is good.

[Mike_L]

As a health and safety professional I recommend that you always torque to the manufacturer's specifications. Proper torque secures the lug nuts in a stable position relative to the forces applied to them in transit so they will not become loose and allow the wheel to come off or otherwise move and create unstable attachment to the hub. Too much torque can damage the integrity of the wheel studs and cause them to break. Most automotive wheel nuts are torqued in the range of 100 ft/lb.
ATV wheel nuts are torqued to about 20% of this value because the low density metal used in their manufacture is much weaker but this torque is sufficient for this application. The manufacturer determines this for you.
Tire ratings are used by the manufacturer to indicate suitable application for specific tire builds for factors such as weight capacity, speed etc. Your maximum weight, speed etc should not exceed your tire capacity. Operating tires beyond their rated capacity is a safety hazard and will greatly reduce the tire life. Operating a tire below rated capacity does not present this hazard and will prolong tire life, often significantly, making them less expensive to operate over the long term. My 1/2 ton came new with 6 ply tires. They lasted for 60km. I replaced them with 10 ply which cost twice as much. They have over 100km on them and are barely worn. When my truck is fully loaded my tires are half loaded.

offers the potential

[rdickens]

Wendy,

It is completely your decision on what brand and load rating tire to get.

Since the Carlisle D-rating and C-rating tires appear to be the same price,
I was just thinking that it might be better to start out with a stronger tire
to begin with.

I am new to some of these trailer tire things too and only recently learned
more after Scamp delivered my Scamp16D-A trailer with load range D tires
on it.

In the following links, I read that trailer tires should be evaluated by both
their tread depth and also their age. Also in that link, it suggests that the
strength (load carrying ability?) of a trailer tire decreases by one third in
just 3 years. That is why I thought that it might be better to start out
with a stronger tire with a higher initial load carrying capability.
(Who knows .... I could be thinking incorrectly about this?)

Safely Maintaining Trailer Tires
http://www.discounttire.com/learn/trailer-tire-faqs

Load Range and Load Index
http://www.discounttire.com/learn/load-range-load-index

I do know that my sister and brother-in-law bought a used Scamp16
that had almost new tread but had been sitting for several years under
a tree. Because the tread seemed good, they set out on a long trip across
the country. On their way home, they had a trailer tire blow out while going
down the highway ..... so I do believe the trailer tire age thing.

If I understand correctly, over three years, the C-rated tire would go
from an initial load rating of about 1356 down to about 894. The D-rated
tire would go down from an initial 1565 pounds per tire to 1032 pounds
per tire.

I guess that you might ask the folks at Scamp for their recommendation?

I am far from an expert on this, but thought that I would just offer some
food for thought.

Good luck and safe travels!

Ray

[steve dunham]

A Scamp 13 has a 2200 lb rated axle . A set of C rated or D Rated trailer tires have a weight carrying capacity greater than the axle rating of 2200 lbs. Thusly the axle is the real limiting factor.
Some times people get carried away with the " Bigger is Better " theory and put E or F rated tire on their FG trailer because they falsely believe an overly rated tire couldn't possibly fail.
Having properly rated tires is important but I would not let an unwarranted fear of a tire blowout ruin my trip or keep me up at night.
If you believe the internet , every brand of trailer tires fail as soon as you leave the tire shop parking lot . Makes one wonder how truly accurate Web ratings really are ?

[rdickens]

My point was that, on the day that you buy the C-rated tires, the axle is the limiting factor. However, three years later, the reduced-strength tires would seem to have become the limiting factor .... If the webpage info is correct.

Ray

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by rdickens

My point was that, on the day that you buy the C-rated tires, the axle is the limiting factor. However, three years later, the reduced-strength tires would seem to have become the limiting factor .... If the webpage info is correct.

Ray

My question then would be, assuming the Web is correct . Do the tires deteriorate at a steady rate ( 11% per anum) or do they maintain their full rating for 3 years and on 3 years and one day take a precipitous drop of 33% ? Is the 3 years from the date of manufacture or from the day they were put in service ?
If the loss starts at day one and is gradual , then you would need to buy new tires every year ( Assuming C rated tires) to maintain that properly rated tires were on your trailer
My question is simply academic and I am NOT guestioning the validity of your post . Only trying to put the 3 year rule in prospective

[Brian G.]

Originally Posted by John in Michigan

. . . I re-check them on the road.

This is good advice.

[frank_a]

I check my lug nuts consistently, and usually find they need tightening at the 1st stop of the trip. I've been doing this with all kinds of trailer (RV, boat, utility) for decades. I have seen wheels come off of trailers in the hiway. I have 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" torque wrenches, and only use them on modern auto wheels.

Frank

[Mike_L]

Tires start to deteriorate from their date of manufacture. This is a given. It's the "rate" of deterioration that is of consequence. Basically, the polymers from which the tire is made begin to oxidize. Plasticizes slowly volatilize. Exposures like the UV component of sunshine, heat etc. accelerate this process.
As tires deteriorate their integrity decreases. Capacity ratings use a margin of safety to take this into consideration. The numbers quoted are "guesstimated" averages based on "assumed" worst-case situations. Actual use conditions can accelerate the deterioration rate but usually reduce it.
Using a higher capacity rated tire adds an additional margin of safety and prolongs its expected life under the specified usage conditions.
Consider how long you would be able to carry a 10 lb weight as compared to a 20 lb weight.

[Raspy]

If ST tires are shot at the three year mark, meaning they have become unsafe for all of the previously mentioned reasons, it seems completely illogical to buy stronger ones to compensate. What are we to do? Keep a running calendar and weight chart to determine that the load range D tires are now OK, but only till next month? And the load range C tires ore now only OK for a wheel barrow, and only that till Christmas?

If the tire materials are failing, it's time to replace them. A blow out will do severe damage to a fiberglass trailer.

It's nice to have some give in the tires. This makes the ride better and less damaging to the trailer. Running D tires at full inflation would probably almost eliminate any give and make the trailer suffer. But running them at a lower pressure makes more heat. A C tire can flex more while building less heat.

So it seems better to try to match the tire to the load and not try to match the tire to the deterioration rate.

BTW, 6 ply tires and 8 ply tires and not really 6 or 8 ply. They are 8 ply "rated" which usually means 2 ply. Read the sidewall of your tires for clarification on this.

I consider some brands of ST tires to be junk when brand new. But I have a set on my car hauler/ tractor hauler that are over 20 years old and still going strong. They hold air, they are not cracked and they always make the trip with no failures. My Ollie will never see a set of STs though. It's LTs for me on that rig, and I have no intention of throwing them away at three years.

[Borrego Dave]

Good post John but I did have to chuckle. Being trailers are pretty much an earthquake when being towed, I wonder how much difference the D would make over the C for stiffness....might not even notice it .

[Raz]

So far wear rather than age has caused me to replace my tires after 3 years. I've been getting about 30k miles before they look questionable to my untrained eye. Could they go further? Perhaps. But we spend a lot of time in the middle of nowhere and I like the peace of mind. I've been through three sets of Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires and would have bought a fourth had they still been available. I passed on the new Carlisle HD's. The tread design was quite different, the tread depth reduced, and the price lowered. I decided to try a different brand. LT tires don't seem to be an option in my size so ST tires are the only choice. They have not been a problem. Yet.

I didn't replace my spare. I keep it inside the trailer under the bed. It only sees daylight when I check the pressure. While it looks brand new, it's actually 7 years old. Life on the edge.

[steve dunham]

Raspy you hit the nail on the head . Since everything today has a warning label , why aren't ST tires marked " UNSAFE AFTER 3 YEARS--- DISPOSE OF PROPERLY " or at least the tire manufacturer should furnish an APP so we could calculate on our phone when we need new tire or maybe even better, they could build a chip into the tires that would send us an email when the tires are no longer load safe.
The present system leaves too much room for human error .
I've decided to go with G rated tires , inflated to 20 lbs ,